terrified all over again. anyone else scared to give birth....

[mamaesi]

You would think I would be less nervous, as its my second time. But now that I hit the 36 week mark I am starting to feel scared all over again.

I just read in the times that you may be able to get a section without medical cause? Am I too late for that? I am terrified of getting cut down there, or worse having a bad tear. I didn't have stitches at all last time and am convincing myself that I cant be lucky twice. I also has a very fast labour and am worried I wont make it to the hospital. I am dreading the pain. Dreading being so sore down there, scared of something going wrong.

I really dont understand why sections are seen as bad. I would take a cut in the tummy over a cut in the vagina any day...plus the whole procedure is calm and controlled.

Is anyone else thinking this way? How do I calm down? Its clouding my excitement for the baby entirely.

Ok, firstly the guidelines you are talking about are still in draft form and won't be finalised until 23rd November.

Secondly, they are only guidelines - hospitals are completely free to ignore them if they want to. They are NOT a RIGHT to have a c-section on demand. The press have been reporting this with spectactular disregard for the facts.

Thirdly, the new guidelines are aimed at women who have serious anxiety during their pregnancy. Its not about there being no medical need at all. Its about mental health needs. Its more about formalising a care pathway and making care more consistant across the country for a certain group of women who make a request on these grounds.

I don't want to put you off this - I want to give you a realistic and honest answer. You CAN make a request on the grounds of mental health but you will still need a good case.

Whether at 36 weeks you do have a good case for this under the current system for getting a c-section I'm not sure. It would most likely depend on your previous experience, how distressed you are, whether you've expressed concerns previously, whether you have had any psychological distress from your previous birth, how sympathetic your doctor is, what the policy of the Trust you are under is, and how much you are prepared to push this. It may not be so easy. Especially since you seem to have had a relatively good birth first time round.

The way this has been presented by the media is just so wrong and inaccurate, I fear there may be a lot of women who find this out the hard way and end up being very distressed and disillusioned if they are refused a request as a result.

This is my 4th dc (33 weeks pg atm) and I have had two c sections 1st and 3rd child, one being fetal distress and the other placenta previa, this time I am begging for a VBAC.(as long as no complications)
After my experiences I am totally opposite to you, I would sooner have a vaginal birth than a section my reasons

1. The recovery after a section is horrendous (well it was for me)
2. I could not breast feed as my breast was not producing after the section, this can take up to 3 or 4 days.
3. No driving, hoovering for 6 weeks, after all it is major surgery.

4 Potential adhesion scars which are painful years after the birth.

Good luck with your baby!!

Hey hey, don't panic!!

I had an episiotomy with DD, and a third degree tear with my DS 5 days ago as he shot out in a 7 min second stage! The tear was repaired in theatre under a spinal and it is completely fine! I have been sitting down with no pain at all since day 2, and the first day it was just a bit sore.

The episiotomy last time was actually more sore, but again not at all horrendous and perfectly manageable.

TMI but going to the loo with both has been fine too - I was needlessly dreading it.

I don't know whether I've just been
incredibly lucky but both my episiotomy ad tear have been a million times easier than a c section would have been.

PS I had no drugs with DS and didn't feel the tear specifically - of course I got the ring of fire everyone gets but nothing I cd identify as the tear.

Don't panic.

Hi. I had an episiotomy with DD1. Prior to birth, having to be cut or tearing was my greatest fear! As it happened I consented to being cut (done under local) and DD1 popped out in 2 pushes - I delivered her back to back and had not slept for 3 nights so was bit desperate to get her out. Recovery was fine. A little discomfort if walking too much but nothing paracetamol and ibuprofen couldn't fix. No toliet problems :).

My sister tore badly but was repaired beautifully in theatre under epidural. No long term damage and her recovery was pretty quick with little pain.

Whatever you decide, try not to panic. And good luck (I am 40 wks with DD2!)

I know how you feel and sounds like we had similar first time experiences - quick labours with no damage. I will however do anything to avoid a c-section.

I'm planning a homebirth again and had actually been looking forward to it but since hitting 35weeks (am now 37) have been getting panicky and scared, because I'm also worried I can't be as lucky again and because the last half hour of my previous labour was so quick and out of control and I went into shock that I don't really remember any of it so feel like I'm a newbie all over again.

I'm finding that doing similar mental preparations that I did last time are really helping - re-reading everything by Ina May Gaskin, booked in for a yoga birth preparation class, talking through the potentials for quick labours with my midwife and just trying to think it through logically I'm slowly starting to "look forward" to it again.

Don't panic - you can do this, and in the grand scheme of things, as you already know, the birth is minor compared to having a newborn!

Good luck!

I still see a section as better.
Yes there is a longer recovery with a section but a way better one in my opinion. Not being able to go to the loo normally for months and not being able to have pain free sex....as this is what has happened to a few of my friends after bad tears.
Can't drive, hoover? Fabulous. I live in central london anyway and quite frankly hate cleaning the house! I have had my appendix out so I understand the discomfort of cuts in the abdomen, but they are so manageable with pain meds.

Last time all I had was a 'graze' and that seemed to take forever to feel better, so an actual tear with stitches puts me over the edge!

I am really dreading the whole thing. And I didnt have that moment where I forgot everything and said "oh look at my beautiful baby"... I was in shock, the whole thing was horribly painful and I hated every single second of it and all the horrible things after...bleeding for 6 weeks, sore, painful engorged breasts, not being able to wee without pain. I am doing it again because I want another child but I do not want to give birth at all! This is why I prefer a section.

Thank you for being honest about my chances of actually getting a section. I do not have the energy to fight, I have a toddler and am running my own business...but I do think we should be able to get one. I have always been happy with the nhs, but in this case I wish I was in america where my mother lives.

i also appreciate your stories that stitches turned out ok..thank you.but am still scared.

Please don't panic about tearing/stitches etc, I've had 4 babies (one was a shoulder dystocia, she and one of the others were nearly 9lb) and I've had zero tears/stitches.

I was very scared when pregnant with no.4 after a horrendous labour with no.3, but when I went into labour I was extremely calm and relaxed (don't know why when I was in tears everytime I saw a midwife before) and I had an absolutely brilliant 4th birth. Was very quick, not very painful and she was born very quickly (my previous 3 births were longer than average), she popped out 7 mins after I got into the delivery room.

Every birth is different, try not to worry about things that may not happen (hug)

You obviously want a section, don't you? Go for it. What matters is your health, your body and how you feel emotionally.

NICE has changed its stance and someone like you should not have a problem getting a caesarean. They may soften the choice issue i.e. I don't think they will say 'do you want a caesarean or vaginal?' as the papers have said. It won't be like that. But if you read other posts you will see a lot of mners are suffering incontinence and psychological problems and they have realised that vaginal birth has a downside too.

Take some time, decide what YOU want and need and then go for it. You're the one that matters.

mamaesi

You seem to think that having a c-section is easy option. I don't think that is the case at all and I think there's a whole bunch of women who would say first hand it is. I do think you need to seriously get some information on how easy/hard it would be. Are you aware of the risks? Are you considering more children?

Is it just tearing that bothers you? Have you looked at other options that might help you? I think there are things you can do to help you avoid tearing and to reassure you. (Where are you giving birth? Have you thought about a doula etc?)

If you still want a c-section after considering all that, ask your doctor. They may say no, but they may not. They may ask exactly what is bothering you and what the problem is and try and reassure you.

I'm pro choice in childbirth, but I'm pro-informed choice. If its what you think is right for you, then go for it, but its not a simple or easy thing to decide - you need to look at all the consequences of doing this first and from what you've posted, I'm not convinced you've done that yet.

Hi mama,

can't say anything positive at all, other than I am terrified aswell, first birth not too bad, but bad tear that hurt alot after, but it could have been worse. Also think can I be lucky twice?. I have become obsessed with thinking about the birth. Am also thinkng the whole what if I don't make it to the hospital in time thing aswell.

Mama - you say that bein unable to drive for 6wks wouldn't be a problem to you, but what about caring for and lifting your toddler?

I have been 'lucky' 3 times and never needed stitches - have 'grazed' and appreciated my little bottle of water with lavender oil when on the loo for a couple of days but my labours have been quick (which usually makes tearing more likely so you may be OK and naturally 'stretchy') and my babies big (dainty DD 9lb9!)

Is it worth listening to natal hypnotherapy CDs to help relax you as the big day gets closer? Maybe not as pain relief but as positive visualisation and preparation they could be useful

Good luck in doing your research and asking you MW about elective Csection if you decide weeks of recovery is what you want

I appreciate the advice, honestly. But I have never been able to listen to hypnotherapy...i hate yoga. and it just doesnt relax me, and how can you relax in labour??!!

my mum is coming to help me after the birth so I am not too concerned with caring for my toddler...and still I think having a ripped open vagina is more painful/worse long term...I do not understand how people can see that as better than a ripped open tummy!

and I have done research about the 'risks' of a section...when its planned there are very little risks these days.

On a positive thought, my first was pushed out very fast and since I didnt tear, maybe I am 'stretchy'...i like to think that, but then there is the problem of this baby being stuck, bigger, in a funny positon, even faster...still so much could go wrong.

I do think fast labours are bloody scary. Mine was fast-ish and along with the intense annoyingness of those with long labours telling me 'LUCKY YOU!' (OK I do get why), it really was like going down one of those really fast waterslides in terms of the speed with which you are chucked into a new world. I think going and talking about this asap with your midwife and/or doctor is well worth doing - at least you need to find out whether a cs is immediately an option or whether it will take more effort.

I could have almost written this post myself. I'm expecting my third and after 2 VBs (one epidural + venteuse + 3rd degree tear and one precipitous birth with multiple tears) i am also terrified of pain, tears, not making it to the hospital, etc. I have been considering ECS too but somehow to me the thought of having my stomach cut open is even more scary, maybe because I've never had abdominal surgery.
If you feel strongly about having a ECS I'm sure that you'll get it and it may well be the right choice for you.
Good luck!

I had a terrible first labour and second degree tear, was really scared the second time around, however more scared of a c-section. My friend found out during her second c-section that her abdominal organs have fused onto her abdominal wall and the surgeon did not realise, what should have been fairly quick turned into a marathon and she is now has to carry something with her to say she is at serious risk during surgery of bleeding to death. Unless you are talking a really serious tear, I would say any discomfort of even a couple of weeks would be preferable to something as long term as my friend. This issue will be with her forever. To add my second labour was much better than the first far less scary and although I had three stitches (better than the 14 I had the first time) vaginal birth still preferable.

Each to their own though so hope it all goes well whatever you decide.

Op you are me a few months ago ds is 8 weeks and snuggled up to me in bed

I have to say that my 2nd birth was better in so many ways that I actually now get why some woman don't understand bad births iyswim. Everything has been better. The sensation of him coming out, it don't hurt as much, even with another 2nd degree tear, I delivered within half an hour of being at hospital with g&a just for the pushing. The recovery has been quicker, I have felt better quickier in everyday possible.

How quick was your first birth? I was so worried about it I sorted out a homebirth with my mw so that I knew if I had no choice I would have everything sorted.

Thats a good point - everyone I know has said that their second vaginal birth was way better than their first, in terms of how long it took, ability to manage the pain and recovery.

Certainly true for me!

my mum is coming to help me after the birth so I am not too concerned with caring for my toddler...and still I think having a ripped open vagina is more painful/worse long term...I do not understand how people can see that as better than a ripped open tummy!

I understand your fears mamasi, however I have had both and the potential complications long term of a c section are far worse. I have got adhesions from the previous 2 scars and very painful 6 years on, these were not elective sections as complications arose from both pregnancies.

A vaginal tear is more likely too heal better and quicker than a abdominal scar. This is better for subsequent pregnancies also. Also you have to experience a c section first before you can come to the conclusion that one is far worse than the other!!!

OP - second time round is much easier:-

1. likely to be shorter
2. you have experienced it before which makes the whole experience less stressful - I even said straight after the birth of DD2 that I could do it again - vast contrast to first time which took more than 6 months to psychologically recover from
3. less likely to tear - I only suffered a graze and a minor tear which didn't really need stitching second time round

It's not to say I'm not nervous about giving birth to DC3 imminently - but I know the drill! It might be worth going into the hospital to discuss with a specialist midwife. They can help you to work through your fears and to manage the situation on the day. Think about what the most important thing is for you - e.g. if epidural, keep asking from the moment you arrive in hospital. I was very clear that I wanted an epidural straight away, but would take anything on offer until they considered me ready for it.

xyz2011 You are right to say the complications of the emergency sections you had are worse and you are exactly right but mumaesi is talking about having an elective caesarean. This is what NICE seems to be on about. Emergency caesareans ARE very risky because they need to be done under pressure and whilst you are contracting - often when there is not an experienced surgeon around. Electives have slightly different risk to vaginal birth but around the same level of risk. Have a read of some of the posts from women who have wanted and had electives - almost all say it was a calm happy experience. Emergency caesareans - the exact opposite!

The NICE guidelines are still draft ushy as i said before. they are not due to be finalised before 23rd nov AND they have been massively badly reported and DO NOT give a right to a c-section.

NICE doesn't give a right to a csection but that IS what the guideline is saying and as I understand it from NHS CHOICES which should be a reliable source what was published in the papers was just the pre print version - not the draft.
www.nhs.uk/news/2011/10October/Pages/draft-nice-guidelines-elective-caesareans.aspx

Ushy. its a GUIDELINE. hospitals are under no obligation whatsoever to follow it.

NICE guidelines on IVF say that everyone should have 'a right' to it. The reality is completely different. IVF is not available at all in my PCT.

I am well aware of the guidelines and the background to them. I have been following this story and development with close interest for several years. I have read the draft extensively. The RCOG response to the newspaper reporting is also very telling. What has been reported is very very different from what it actually says and how it will be implemented. Its about a full care pathway which also includes counselling to reassure women or help them perhaps to go forward with a VB rather than their request of a CS, to make sure they know the full implications of their decision. The guidelines are not about making the process easy.

I could go on about this for hours - indeed I already have on MN.

I can totally sympathize with you. Im 37+5 and due to be induced Friday. I'm so scared after a previous forceps and episiotomy birth last time. But I'm totally against having a section, and am even more scared about EMCS. With a section recovery time is much longer, breastfeeding can be harder to establish, it's not just a "cut" it's a pretty major surgery which involves cutting through your abdominal muscles, which never go back to complete normal. Ive just stocked up on femme pads and healing creams for after the birth, really hope they work. Best of luck!