Ingrid, what you say makes sense to me (I think!) -
It's about a hierarchy of needs. You aren't saying your second birth without an epidural was pain-free and therefore lovely, you are saying it was painful, but for you, personally, that was preferable to how you experienced an epidural. fair enough.
Like I say, different women have different needs/wants/expectations, and can come through similar sounding birth experiences but feel completely different about them.
That's why a 'one size fits all' approach of 'pain relief = bad' doesn't work.
lynehamrose, sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't think women read the bible, then make birth plans to ensure they endure pain (I am hooting with laughter typing that! Imagine...).
I think that negative attitudes to women in a patriarchal society are deeply entrenched, and their origins are often obscure. Women often internalise oppressive attitudes, too, which complicates things nicely. When I read posts on this forum about women who feel they've 'failed' at birth because they couldn't manage the pain themselves, I think there's something like that at work, tbh.
I'm also a bit sceptical about advice to 'embrace' the pain. It's a tricky one - I've no doubt that positive attitudes can make a big difference to a lot of experiences, and so I understand that a lot of the 'see the pain as a positive one, bringing you closer to your baby etc' rhetoric can be seen as empowering...
On the other hand, I think it's a bit dodgy, frankly. A way of convincing women that not only do they have to endure pain, but it should all be marvellously life enhancing and a lovely opportunity for then to use mind over matter. [and every moment of labour and birth brings you closer to meeting your baby, whether you're in pain or not!]
But, y'know, whatever floats your boat....