How many of you got a headache or other complications after an epidural

[Marabou]

Sorry all, I seem to be hawking this forum at the moment..

Was just watching another baby programme and the lady, who just gave birth and had an epidural is suffering from a horrible headache. I had planned to have an epidural despite having heard of the possible side effects, but was wondering how many of you had this or any other complications after having had an epidural.

Many thanks!

lynehamrose Thanks for explaining that. I didn't think you were judging people who choose epidural at all. It was a really unloaded question - I just couldn't undestand why you would feel regret about not going through such an intensely painful experience without pain relief.

I guess we are all different and we can never understand completely why people make choices that are so different to our own.

Perhaps the only area I would disagree about is that there definitely is a bit of pressure out there on women to 'aspire to ' or 'achieve' a 'natural' birth. I do find that a bit Talebanesque. We should be saying all births are good who cares which particular escape route DS or DD used

Ushy I would always try and encourage someone to be as upright as possible with an epidural to aid a natural delivery, this would be sitting upright, maybe I didn't make myself clear when mentioning upright positions, what I meant was that the legs would not usually support a woman standing or being on all fours when the woman has an epidural. (Occasionally even this is possible, but usually it won't be safe).

Also hormones are not used routinely but hospital policies have time limits for second stages, they are not for the convenience of staff, they are to avoid further problems for the mother and fetus, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that long second stages have poorer outcomes, a midwife would not be doing her job if she didn't start a hormone drip in many circumstances as it would significantly reduce the womans chance of a normal birth, it is not routine, but it is a fact that for many (not all) first timers with epidurals it is necessary to help them have the best chance of a normal birth.

I will definately google the bumpes trial, it sounds good, I am interested in anything that can make birth better for women. I will also try and look up the interview with David Bogod, I am aware of other anaesthetists who have suggested that epidurals don't cause an increase in instrumental deliveries, however there are some studies that suggest they do and some which suggest they don't, as a midwife it is obvious that women aren't able to push anywhere near as effectively with one I'm afraid. (obviously sometimes that will be down to them being totally knackered, so yes sometimes chicken and egg)

Yes giving birth is an intensely painful experience, but ive talked to friends of mine who gave birth naturally and they really don't describe it as 'wanting' to go through masses of pain. In fairness they mostly want to keep the experience as natural and non medical as possible and avoid interventions. Its not about regretting something because I wanted to go through masses of pain, its just being very grateful I have two lovely kids but being in awe of women who do give birth naturally

To aspire to a natural birth is not about looking to inflict pain on yourself, but looking for ways to reduce the fear that increases the feeling of pain and to use known methods for reducing pain without using medical methods that carry risks!

There may be pressure for women to achieve a natural birth, but whilst I think this is wrong in itself, I do believe that more can be done to help women have less medical intervention in some circumstances (not all by anymeans)

For me it was not a failed epidural, the epidural worked fine, but the consequences were still there (limited options for birth position leading to instumental birth with headache for baby, pain with catheter with had to be left in for 12 hours after birth). My subsequent births I was more prepared for mentally and both of them were wonderful, whilst not pain-free, I did feel in control of the pain rather than it in control of me.

For me epidural was definitely not as good as I thought and definitely made me think about risks the next time around. (having said that I would have tried a mobile epidural had that option been available to me on my second birth!)

My last birth I had no pain relief available (not by choice!), I got through with using breathing techniques and although one moment of panic and pain during transition, it was actually an exhilerating experience.

I look back to my first birth realising that my fear and panic at the unknown was part of the problem, if I had listened to what others were suggesting to me, I might have had a totally different first birth experience (which may have led to less pain for me and my baby).

It is not looking for a badge of bravery or taliban-like as suggested, the pain of the catheter and the tearing due to poor position for pushing did not make my epidural "pain-free", I chose to take another route with subsequent births, I was not looking for pain, but just using other methods of controlling the pain.

It is very difficult to explain the drive to have experienced, or to experience a natural birth.

I found it hard to verbalise my feeling of failure after my first labour. Friends who gave birth at the same time had had long, painful labours ending in caesarian section. I didn't want to be them yet I felt I had got away with it, I'd cheated, I'd not had much pain at all as I had wussed out for the easy option. physically easy in some ways but psychologically it was awful - like they resented me, though I have no idea if this is correct.

I felt I hadn't suffered enough to prove my worth as a real mother. I'd fallen into motherhood in a similar way to falling into pregnancy, without the proper arrangements in place and without the maturity or true understanding of what it was about, that was required to validate my new role.

A lot of this was tied up in the situation in other respects, but my friend had done everything right, got married first, had IVF for ages, suffered a lot of problems and then had this massive labour and I'd just sneaked in the back door iyswim. The guilt was tremendous.

I felt like I had run the marathon with the help of an electric bicycle or something - it wasn't the real deal. I'd cheated. I still didn't know what childbirth was, in my opnion, and therefore I had the urge to prove myself the second time...but then the second time it was awful in a different way and I still didn't have a tremendous sense of achievement, though the people around me were in awe. I still didn't feel it. Perhaps it comes down to my self esteem, or lack thereof. I would never be good enough.

Ingrid, that's a sad post - I'm really sorry you ended up with those feelings. I think the whole picture of the pressures we allow others to put on us about the way we give birth, the pressure we internalise ourselves, and then the judgements (for we are judged, let's be realistic) that society make about us is very, very complicated.

I do know women who had very high expectations of a particular kind of birth (almost entirely a no intervention, unmedicalised birth) - and when it either hasn't gone the way they wanted, OR turned out not to be the experience they were hoping for, their attitudes towards other women's births have gotten a bit complicated, and I have seen hostility from them towards women they perceive as having had an easier time than them. I think the 'if only things had gone differently' feeling turns into a miserably resentful 'how come Jenny/Anna/Kate had an easier time than me?'

Which is understandable, but then gets damaging all round. Add into that the basically unanswerable questions about how much of a good/bad birth is down to luck, and how much to our plans and efforts, and it's all a bloody minefield. I sometimes think I'm the only woman I know who got the birth she wanted, and was very happy with it. I tend to keep quiet about it, it seems tactless to say so. (also it was an ELCS, so mentioning that tends to open a whopping can of worms, especially from women who were told that a CS was awful, and to be avoided at all costs).

Agree it is sad if a woman feels bad about her births. Just to clarify, I do not feel psychologically damaged in any way by my births. And I think it's important to realise that women should be able to feel they wish they had had a natural birth, without assuming they are terribly gutted and it will effect them for years to come. I don't feel like that, nor do I feel I 'cheated'- I just think it would have been good to get through it without it being a very medical experience that's all

I just think this thread is SO interesting

galwaygirl I take your point entirely although I think the issue of whether the epidural caused your instrumental delivery is debateable as the Mumsnet anaesthetist said. The incidence of difficult deliveries with first babies is much higher anyway.

What I think is curious is the 'pressure' you talk about. I went to a talk on linguistics a couple of years ago and the speaker guy's wife had just had a baby. He was talking about the power of language to control behaviour. He observed the midwives talking about 'normal' and 'natural' labour and encouraging his wife to avoid an epidural. (Rang bells with me!)

His point was that normal, natural human behaviour is to avoid pain. Failing to avoid pain is grossly aberant animal behaviour - generally only seen in weak or dying creatures. The midwives were, unintentionally, using very powerful emotive language ('normal' and 'natural') to control behaviour and to get his wife to behave contrary to all normal animal instinct.

Not having an epidural becaue of potential risks might seem reasonable. But the epidurals-cause-instrument-delivery argument is really flaky. France has a 68% epidural rate and some US hospitals have 90%. Uk rates are a fraction of this yet our instrumental delivery rates are HIGHER! There is the 1% headache issue - that's real - but hardly terrifying.

What's also strange is that many obstetric practises like induction, VBAC, leaving a baby post dates for 14 days carry incomparably higher risks but no-one much comments about that!

The important thing is that people should be able to make whatever choice they want with no pressure either way but they need decent, unbiased information on which to make their choices.

oops..because not becaue ..aberrant not aberant

Hope u no wot I meen

As an aside, the thing that always puzzles me about anti-epidural arguments is that very often, the same people who will be very discouraging about an epidural are happy about pethidine use.

Which has a much greater negative effect on the baby (leaves them sleepier after birth, harder to feed, BF-ing more likely to be hard to establish etc).

And in terms of a mother's experience, I'd personally rather have a painkilling epidural which left my mind pretty clear than be drugged with a sedative narcotic.

I know pethidine is a lot cheaper than an epidural, and can be administered by a MW, so doesn't need consultant input or an anaesthetist, but still.

Sorry, I meant to say - I was just adding, Ushy, to your point about other obstetric practices which do indeed carry much higher risks for a baby, but which aren't seen in such a negative light.

Purely in terms of risk to a baby, I do find it strange that someone can be anti-epidural but pro-VBAC, for example. That's a key example of an area where ideas and language to do with 'nature' and 'natural' become very emotive and powerful.

I should add that I think a woman should be supported in whatever her birth choices are, and that some women can have very personal and important reasons for choosing a particular birth. Our emotions and desires are not necessarily logical, but are still very important!

But whether there is a proven link between epidural and instrumental delivery or not, the reason many women(myself included) were keen to avoid an epidural is because an epidural automatically makes the birth a medicalised experience, continuous monitoring, anesthetist etc. Many women want to avoid that. I ended up with epidurals for my births because I could 'not take the pain any more, but I would have liked to experience birth without being numbed up. I don't think you can equate labour to all other types of L
Pain( where I agree the natural instinct is to get rid of the pain). Birth is an active thing where the mother can assist the process through breathing through contractions and bearing down and pushing at the right times- its not like when you break a leg or need your appendix out and you are just a passive patient having it 'done to you'.

Also not sure if its true that people who are keen to avoid epidural actively encourage pethidine. My friends who went without epidural were all quite anti pethidine as well because of the possible side effects / other interventions and they mostly used natural methods like water, massage or
In some cases gas and air

lynehamrose I think fruitybread's comment is the key isn't it?

"I should add that I think a woman should be supported in whatever her birth choices are, and that some women can have very personal and important reasons for choosing a particular birth. Our emotions and desires are not necessarily logical, but are still very important!"

They should post that on the wall of every maternity unit in the UK!

Yes, which is why I felt uneasy about the earlier comments likening natural birth to the telaban etc!
Fwiw, I was very keen, after my first birth with epidural, to try for natural next time, which seems to be quite a common thing amongst women. I don't want to be told that that is a result of brain washing by society or pressure from other women that a natural birth is best. I didn't feel brainwashed at all. I just wanted to give birth to my baby naturally if I could

I feel all my births were 'natural'.

The second, without any pain relief (didnt know in labour, was enduring a hideous 'kidney infection' for two days, too late when waters broke), gave me an amazing high afterwards. It also had the fewest side effects. However, the first with fab mobile epidural was probably the most pleasant birth (despite complications and ventouse delivery).

And no-one gave me a medal after my pain-relief free birth either

Going back to the OP, i had an epidural 2 days ago for the birth of DC2 and it was fantastic. My first had been a water birth (unplanned - was railroaded i to it by midwives) and the pain was such that I don't remember most of my labour. I blacked it out of my memory. This time around I needed to be induced for medical reasons and asked for the epi to be sited before the synto drip was put in. Yes it does mean more monitoring, but I could sleep through chunks of it and I had plenty of energy when it was time to push. The baby got out in two pushes (2 minutes 2nd stage, I am not making this up!). I was on my knees despite having just had a top up. I didn't tear and had/have plenty of energy to look after my premature baby. For me it was a vastly superior experience to the water birth and one I would recommend anyone.

Oh, and I agree with Ushy - but she already knows that :)

The issue of whats 'natural' is a bit debateable I agree! But I was using it to refer to birth without drugs

This is a hugely delicate and emotive area...

I think problems arise when women are told that the' best' birth is one without pain relief. That they will feel so proud of themselves if they 'manage' it (as one of the OP's MWs did, remember). It starts to become a moral judgement on the individual woman at that point.

This simply sets up a dichotomy whereby a birth with pain relief is a second best, in some ways a failure, and not something to be proud of.

There are women who find the pain overwhelming, unendurable and birth is an alienating and traumatising experience for them because of that. There's no question but that for them, minimising the pain is the best thing, whatever the potential side effects.

It really depends on the individual woman. Some of us don't see pain as being an inevitable part of the birth experience, to be honest. Others accept it as part and parcel of the experience, and want to try and deal with it themselves. I tend to think most women will tolerate pain up to a point - but once it goes beyond a certain level, they want the option of anaesthesia.

So it's a complex picture. I think the 'Taleban-esque' side of things crops up when there is an insistence that women should give birth without pain relief. That pain is something they should endure. There's always a moral judgement lurking there, to do with women and their status, and it's never a woman-friendly one.

Absolutely. In the Bible it says that God made women have pain during childbirth as a punishment for the forbidden fruit thing...

Won't even start with feminist analysis of that one .

I had a severe headache after mine and also for about 6 years afterwards I experienced a strange throbbing feeling in my back where the needle had gone in at various times.

Thankyou, Fruity, that's a very kind post.

Can I just say something though, 'There are women who find the pain overwhelming, unendurable and birth is an alienating and traumatising experience for them because of that. There's no question but that for them, minimising the pain is the best thing, whatever the potential side effects.'

I did find the pain of my second overwhelming, unendurable and traumatising, and alienating, BUT even so I would not want to have an epidural next time. I would rather feel in control, however much it seems out of control in terms of pain, than be medicated and a step removed from the process like in my first labour.

I'm not proud of my first labour in the way that I am proud of my second. That is just a personal standard though, to put it crudely - I wouldn't for a moment judge another woman for having pain relief. Not a split second! Just myself. I mean G&A is one thing as it doesn't do much anyway, but an epdural, to me, felt like leaving the planet temporarily while someone else gave birth to my child.

It's ridiculous, I know, I just can't help it.

Oh come on, credit women with some intelligence! Do any of you HONESTLY believe that
Women in the 21st century UK consult the bible before writing their birth plan, and decide that for. Some illogical obscure reason they need to suffer!
You are over analysing it. Many women want to achieve a non medical birth if possible, simply because they don't see birth as an illness, they don't want to be numb for epidural with the hospital and monitoring which that entails and the possibility that it could lead to more interventions. That was my reason for wanting a natural birth. I didn't manage one, but it was certainly something i would have liked

What? Is that at me?
I would aim for a drug-free birth too.

It was just an interesting thought I had, and one I wondered whether it had contributed to a general/society badge of honour mentality. No judgements either way (I wasn't joking about my medal, though not regretful about my epidurals).

Except maybe judgement on that vengeful god. Nasty.

I think actually I do want it to hurt. I want it to be painful!

Is that so weird? I want pain when I walk long distance, or run, or put up a shed, or dig someone's patio up! I want it to hurt or it isn't important. It's enjoyable, it's exertion. There's a big reward at the end...a baby, for starters, or mental release (with the running) or in the case of the patio, great sex

Like earning something instead of being given it.
It feels like a ritual; pain is life.

pS I was very much 'there' with my epidural.