Not for 1st timers.

[TheBreastmilksOnMe]

Why didn't anyone tell me just how utterly painful, agonising and brutal giving birth really is?

I wanted a VBAC so much, to do it 'au naturell' but half way through I had to question my logic. My God!

Is it possible to become phobic about childbirth after having experienced a relatively straightforward labour and birth?

Does anyone else want to share their shock with me? My DD is 4 weeks old now and I still come over in a cold sweat when I think about it. I really wanted a 3rd child too!

I didn't actually think too much about the delivery as my sister and mum had delivered quickly and easily so I was convinced I would slip DD out in a few hours.

I think if someone had said to me that it actually really f*ing hurts and the lack of control will scare you silly, then I might have been able to prepare and think about how I would deal with it. Although, I suppose I was in denial a bit and I should have realised it would be intense.

Strangely it hadn't occurred to me that I would actually have to push. I thought the contractions would do all the work.

People are lying when they say you forget the pain !!! I havent [ gave birth nearly 2 years ago.] I just always have a little smirk to myself when I see these serene pregnant women ,floating around and discussing candles and water sprays during labour !Mean but I always think you wont be so serene pushing the baby out !!!

I'm a first timer and of course I couldn't not read this thread! I would rather hear the unvarnished truth as I think it will help me be a little bit more prepared when the time comes - I know you can never be fully prepared.

I could never understand why anyone would think it wouldn't be absolute agonising agony. how could it not be? Look at a baby, look at a vagina... They just don't match, do they?

I prayed, literally prayed, for a C-section with DS1 and got one (I had an ovarian cyst that stopped him dropping enough for me to go into labour). On the ward, I asked all the staff how they'd had their babies and they huffed and puffed but when I pushed it, they all admitted they'd had C-sections.

With DS2 I booked the C-section in as soon as I could.

No regrets.

It isn't 'agony' for everyone. It was bloody hard work and transition was a bitch but I'd be lying if I went round saying that labour was the hardest, most painful thing I've done. Pushing and crowning were a relief after transition and there was no further pain.

Some people are unlucky and get 3 days of agonising labour. Others are v. lucky and get painless births. I suspect that most of us are somewhere in the middle.

I think that first timers should read this thread, this forum and other varied sources of birth experience. Ignorance isn't a virtue and can often be more frightening than truth.

For me the real villains of this piece are the natural childbirth lobby, who persist in the need to present childbirth as some ecstatic process. I just don't understand how these people many of whom characterize themselves as feminists can look themselves in the eye comfortably when they know they are conspiring to sugar-coat one of the most painful, traumatic experiences humans ever go through. Its just not true that birth can be pain free, why do people get off on pretending it can? You never hear men talking about the need to prevent "medical intervention" during prostate surgery or the removal of kidney stones, why should intervention be such a dirty word in the case of labour? Its complete gobbledygook, and of a particularly pernicious nature because its so dishonest.
If we were a little more honest about this from the get-go, there would be far less of the shock and borderline PTSD that women get after unpleasant births because they would be able to make more informed choices -- ie, that there's no shame in epidurals, C-sections or the rest of it. Instead of which we have all these deluded women kidding themselves that water-births and whale song are going to do it for them and almost invariably they need major surgical intervention anyway and would have been far better off with more honesty in the first place. God it makes me see red.

I'm sorry jackadeck, I think you are pretty insulting about women that have easy/natural births, I had a pain free birth so they do happen and are great. Loads of my friends have had really easy homebirths or short births in hospital. I understand OP's shock but to be dismissive of those who do have okay births is really bad. I did hypnobirthing aswell and mental preparation is helpful. Obviously, the OP experienced a traumatic birth even though straightforward but this doesn't mean all women experience painful births. OP - Big Hugs!!!

Totally agree with the OP, I recently had my second child and was very lucky to have a straightforward birth after a difficult first one but it was very painful and I remember thinking afterwards that if that's as good as it gets then natural childbirth is overrated.

I'm glad to read this thread. DD2 is 8 days old and I am having a hard time dealing with the labour.

With DD1 I had a hospital birth with a stop-start latent phase that went on for 2 days, despite doing hypnobirthing and having a doula convince me that positive thinking would help. It didn't, but the pethidine bloody did!

Everyone told me that the second time would be easier and if I relaxed more then it would be quicker and less painful, so I booked a home water birth. I went through all the things that I thought went wrong the first time and felt that I was totally prepared this time. The labour was exactly the same, only more painful because I only had G&A.

I can't help thinking that some people will think it's my fault that it didn't go really easily. A lot of my friends are really into natural birth but I just don't think my body was built to get to 6cm dilated without me noticing. If (and it's a big if) there is a next time then I'll definitely be having an epidural and perhaps even a C section. I can't put mysefl through that again.

For the people that have natural, pain-free births: I am very happy that they are able to do that but I don't think everyone is able to do it that way.

5 years on, currently pregnant with second child and yep, still in horror and shock at the pain/brutality of a straightforward home birth. I remember thinking "this is what hell must be like".
I have not forgotten the pain either.

But I had never seen a baby born so I was totally unprepared for the experience and friends lied to me and said it wasnt that bad!

No one has lied to me, my mother (now deceased)was a midwife on the district in 1950's Moss Side, she did not spare me the stories (from delivering syphylitic babies upwards. WHich is possibly why I left children to the last minute :)

Ive helped drag numerous farm animals - dead and alive out of their mothers and read all the horror stories I can find on the subject.

Im 28 weeks pregnant for the first time and STILL more frightened of intervention than the actual childbirth...

Im needle phobic and am absolutely bluddi terrified - anyone got any helpful suggestions ?

I really don't think we should assume that people lie about birth as a matter of course. There's just a very wide range of experience.

The experience of posters who had pain-free births and the experience of those who had traumatic births are equally valid. I'm prepared to believe that all of them are telling the truth.

jeckadeck: You are clearly angry about birth and make some over-reaching claims in your post as a result. I'm a feminist and have no problem with natural childbirth, elective caesarian or any intervention in between as long as it's the fully informed decision of the mother. Preferring to avoid unnecessary intervention is neither dishonest nor "gobbledygook". I've seen no evidence to link it to greater risk of surgical delivery and plenty of evidence to the contrary. (e.g. For low risk women choosing homebirth, a birth environment with lower risk of many interventions, there is also reduced risk of various negative birth outcomes including tearing, PPH, PND, difficulty establishing BFing etc..)

I made the choices I did for labour and birth in order to give me and DD the best chance of a problem free labour and birth. I'm sure most other mothers do the same, even where their choices, and outcomes, are different to mine. Labouring in water was more comfortable than being out of the pool, IME. Whale-song doesn't float my boat but I wouldn't condemn someone who happened to like it or find it relaxing.

I don't think there's any shame in epidurals and would challenge anyone who did. I'm sorry if someone else made you feel that wanting pain relief was "wrong" in some way. Personally, I didn't want one because my mother's experience of them was so negative and because I wanted a quick recovery and reduced risk of tearing. (I was lucky on both counts in the event.) If I'd needed stronger pain relief I would have asked for it.

Despite having a positive homebirth I didn't find birth ecstatic in the slightest. Nor did I find it traumatic, frightening or more painful than I expected. It was hard-work, manageably painful, exhausting, and repetitive. I'd much rather have a cup of hot chocolate and read a good book but I wouldn't have got a baby out of that...

For me, the aim in birth isn't ecstasy, it's minimal trauma and maximum health for both mum and baby, no matter how you do it.

I don't want to insult anyone who has had a relatively easy birth, although I'm afraid I just flat out don't believe anyone who claims to have experienced no pain. But the fact is that the people who have easy births are in a very small minority. So, yes, maybe it is possible. But the natural childbirth lobby present it to you that by avoiding "intervention" and "medicalisation" of labour, you are giving yourself a better chance of having an OK labour. I'd like to see the statistics, but my gut instinct is that the vast, vast majority of people who have waterbirths, pain relief free births etc end up having "medicalised" birth. It just seems that midwives and those who lobby for natural childbirth would be better off saying "OK, here's one strategy which might make you feel more in control although there aren't any guarantees that you will feel less pain." Instead, what they seem to do, by and large, is to present it to you as if your decision for a "medical" birth is the reason why you end up having pain and if you'd done enough hypnobirthing etc you could have avoided it, when for the vast majority of people that's not the case, they would have had pain whether it be in hospital with gas and air or in a hot spring somewhere in Eden. And I just think its very dishonest, that's all

jeckadeck, I'm with you on this one. Yes, there are women who have easy deliveries and a wonderful experience, but IMO the natural birth advocates vastly overestimate the likelihood especially of first timers to have an easy birth. Plus it makes you feel like it's all your fault and that you just 'didn't do it right'.

I am glad to hear people saying that the 2nd birth was easier. Like the OP, my first birth was not a walk in the park pain-wise and I am dreading giving birth again in August, but looking forward to the result .

Jeckadeck: If you want the stats on intervention and birth outcomes, just look them up. It isn't hard to find original research papers or literature reviews (or websites summarising these if you prefer), for the particular interventions you're interested in. You can probably find lots of links on past threads in this forum to make a start with.

I did this for academic interest a long time ago and again while I was pregnant with DD (now 2). I've seen nothing to support your broad "gut instinct" statements here and rather a lot which directly undermine them.

If you're interested in stats and evidence for the risk/benefit of specific interventions, I suggest you start a separate thread and people are sure to pile in and provide what you're looking for.

Why don't you believe me? Stubbing toe - painful, Splitting headache - painful, giving birth - not painful. Pain is really subjective which is why I believe women who say they experienced immense pain. My next experience may be totally different aswell. People like me may be in a small minority but there is no reason to dismiss our experiences of pain free birth. I had a second degree tear aswell which wasn't painful during the birth or immediately after. There have been studies of soldiers who receive horrific injuries on the battlefield, who are conscious but experience no pain aswell so it is a phenomena not confined to childbirth.

I kind of get where jeckadeck is coming from, although I don't 100% agree.

As soon as you mention "epidural" the natural follow on from midwives/obstetricians/other mums is that intervention will follow. This is counterproductive, and simply serves to frighten mums into avoiding the pain relief they may well absolutely need.

I think someone further up thread suggested that maybe intervention isn't a direct consequence of a "medicalised" labour (i.e. induction/ARM/epidural), but rather that those who end up needing the above are in for the wrong end of the deal anyway, and intervention is simply another symptom of a difficult birth.

I for one also get fed up with listening to people talk about the ethereal birthing experience. It seems shallow and superficial, ironically, when one considers what the vast majority of mums have to go through. However, I completely recognise that this may well be the trauma of my own experience talking...

As an aside, my DH had to threaten to sue the hospital in order to get me an epidural - this was after 27hrs of labour, G&A, TENS and two doses of pethadine. When the team that's supposed to be caring for you end up wrecking your birthing experience just because they don't want intervention, are we surprised that so many mums come out with such an anti-natural birth stance?

I'm with you OP. I had a straightforward labour and birth with DC1 - relatively short (10 hours) and no complications or problems. No pain relief.

Taking DC out of the equation, I thought it was the worst thing that has ever happened to me. Nobody bloody warns you what childbirth is really like. It's awful. I was in shock for weeks.

IME I agree in some part with what you are saying. Idon't think women are adequetly prepared for labour. I don't think its possible (except maybe for a very lucky few) for labour to be naturally pain free or enjoyable, but I do think there are things that can be done beforehand and during labour to make it easier to cope with.
Some of it is luck of the draw, some women have average sized babies and large pelvis's and quick straightforward labours. Others have 3 days of back labour, or aqward shaped pelvises or big babg babies etc
When I watch these birthing programs I can totally understand and symathise with women having pethedine and epidurals. Our culture is not set out to support women well in labour, most women are sh*t scared before it even starts and usually there is no support offered other than drugs.
That's why as a Doula I have researched as many ways as possible to help labour be less painful and to go smoothy and without unneccessary intervention.
I also work in Public health, so I have seen how systemic pain relief can lead to the 'chain of intervention' that leads to episiotomies, assisted delivery and EMCS and that makes labour more dangerous for women and babies than a straightforward vaginal labour.
IME it also interferes with the natural hormones that are produced to promote bonding and successful breastfeeding (this coming from someone who had a long persistant OP labour, diamorphine, a large extended episiotomy and a very sleepy baby that make breastfeeding very difficult).
I did my research dissertation looking at 13,000 births at a tertiary hospital to see the effect on mothers and babies (breastfeeding initiation and continuation at discharge, Post partum haemorrage serious tears, babies condition at birth-Apgar score, cord pH, base excess and resuscitation)
of interventions during vaginal birth (diamorphine/pethedine, epidural, episiotomy)
I found that women that had births without intervention had significantly-
Greater odds of breastfeeding after delivery and on discharge
Lower odds of having a post partum hemorrhage
Lower odds of having a perineal tear
Lower odds of babies being born in a compromised condition

Those women that had more interventions (e.g induction, epidural, episiotomy) were nearly twice as likelt to have babies with an
APGAR score of 500ml (PPH)
and 10x more likely to have a severe (3rd or 4th degree) tear
They were half as likely to breastfeed in the first hour after birth (a critical window according to research) and a third as likely to be breastfeeding on discharge from hospital (of those women that had expressed pre birth a wish to breastfeed).

All of these things can have on-going repercussions, blood loss can effect post-natal recovery, tears can effect continence and sex life etc
So my interest is not, neccesserily to create a whale song filled ecstatic birth (although thats always nice) but to support women and babies to get through labour healthy (mentally, physically etc)
Selina

selina, I completely respect your wealth of experience - you clearly know what you are talking about.

However, your post reads as though those of us who had intervention could have avoided it somehow. As much as I agree that we all need to mentally prepared, I don't think that ANY amount of mental preparation would have got me through 44 hours of labour with ventouse delivery and 3rd degree tear. The bottom line is that my DS just was not budging, and the hospital were remiss, if not downright negligible, not to have given me a CS after 27 hrs (contractions 60secs apart, 1cm dilated).

Quite frankly, if I had gone the natural birth route, and had no medical intervention at all, both DS and I would be dead.

selinadoula, you've made some very sympathetic and sensible posts on here before, and I think of you as a good egg!

I do want to add to your post, though - diamorphine and pethidine have much more of an effect on babies (sleepiness/floppiness after birth) than epidurals do, and I think that's an important piece of info for mothers.

And, as always with these things... it's hard to be clear about cause and effect. There are a lot more interventions associated with epidurals (not sure about other pain relief, actually), but it may be the case that those women were having more painful and complex labours to start with, which are inherently more likely to end with intervention irrespective of an epidural.

I'm only saying this because I think accurate available info about pain relief during labour gets lost in a 'ANAESTHETIC = BAD/LACK OF PAIN RELIEF = GOOD' polarisation about birth, when it's just more complex than that.

I also thought that birth was the most horrendous thing I have ever experienced and I also had a "text book" birth. But ever now and then I catch myself thinking "oh, it wasn't that bad" when it was that bad and I seriously wondered whether the pain would kill me, so I have to constantly remind myself that I was desperate for an epidural so that if there is a next time I'll stick to my guns and get one instead of allowing myself to be talked out it. Having said that, I'm glad no-one told me what it really like. I wasn't especially nervous about the birth first time round but the thought of doing it again fills me with horror, and I'm sure I would be terrified right through another pregnancy - it'll add a lot of anxiety that I just didn't have first time round.

Selina - those are interesting figures, although cause and effect may not be straightforward - women who had less ideal outcomes may have had more intervention because they were high risk for complications, rather than the interventions causing the complications

I feel guilty now for my three (relatively) easy labours!

They were in no way pain-free. But I hated pregnancy so much, in a strange way it was a relief- like lancing an abscess!

I wasn't scared- I think because (as a vet, not some kind of animal voyeur!) I had seen and assisted so many animals in parturition, so I understood what was happening to me really well. For example, when I had the urge to crawl off into the air vents, I realised I was probably looking for my "safe place" and close to delivery, so that even when the MW refused to believe me, I insisted on an internal before I would accept diamorphine etc. Knowing I was so close to the finish line was all the pain relief I needed at that stage!!

But I have lots of sympathy for those who had a bad time. I was just lucky I guess (these bloody "child-bearing" hips had to come in handy sometime I suppose!)