Anyone else 'tricked' out of epidural? (part 2)

[Chynah]

For those that feel the discussion still had some way to go........... please continue.....

"I would definitely rather have died than carried on"

"it felt like I was being sawed in two"

such terrifying descriptions, yet, primafacia - you are pregnant AGAIN?? So, didnt put you off then?

All this whinging. If it was that bad we would only do it once wouldn't we?

People don't feed it!

Oooh thanks Harder, I hadn't thought of that - excellent idea.

Err, the first quote is not actually from me

(sorry expat, I'm stopping right now! :))

yeah I know that.

So these days a troll is someone with a different perspective to you?

that's my definition of a troll :)

then there's my definition of an idiot......... mentioning no names

lol!

:o @ noisylurker.

tee hee noisylurker

grow up you silly women. Proving my point - you are just the type to stamp your feet and have a hissy fit when challenged even in the slightest way. I bet you drove your midwives round the frigging bend.

"Could they stay with G & A? Could there be more Health Care Support Workers (HCSWs) or doulas to sit with these women? Give pethidine? And what about the post by an anaesthetist much earlier that really severe pain in the latent stage often indicates malpositioning of baby, especially if the latent stage is lasting a long time?"

Sit where, beaky? They will still need rooms. We will still need staff to care for them. I agree that very painful latent stages do usually indicate a malposition (something an epidural will only exacerbate, looking at a different angle from the pain relief one) and abnormally long ones end up being augmented usually, and an epidural is then used.

I was delayed mine by about 8 hours, i was literally begging. I was induced due to no fluid around the baby. (My waters broke, no labour progressed). When my husband got very assertive about it, as he was losing his temper an anestatist came and inserted it incorrectly. My leg shot up in the air. He shouted at me and left. He did not return for 4 hours to put it right. i was in agony as the contractions were on top of each other and I felt like I was being torn aprt from inside. My husband tracked the anestatist down, he was joking with a nurse. My husband had strong words and the anestatist put the epidural right. since the I suffered sciatica. I had a pinal and epidural 2 years later with my second child which has agrivated this. I complained to PALS but got nowhere.

Harder I understand that these suggestions would take more funds and resources than are currently available, but surely fewer resources than giving all the NIELs an epidural immediately? It would help NIEL ladies feel less fobbed off and tricked out of an epidural. I do think ante-natal classes discuss the pros and cons of pain relief and give the impression that pain relief is freely available, whereas the reality is, it is not.

The NHS should be meeting need where it exists, and it is up to all of us to make the case for the need for epidurals to be more widely available.

I work for the NHS too, so I am well aware of how funds are shrinking at the moment, not increasing, but it is as true in my area as in midwifery that we need to think of ways of meeting the needs and making the case for funding.

Can I ask what may be a very daft question, but why don't women in early labour ever get scanned? Is it purely because it's too expensive?

Just because it might help a birth plan and pain relief options to know exactly what the baby's presentation is at the start (even if they later move)? And things like cord wrapped round the neck could be picked up (as my DC's was, several times, thus hindering any chance of an easy birth).

I'm guessing that cost is probably the thing, especially as women in early labour are banished to the car park. But could it potentially save money and anguish if factors in problem births are spotted early on?

I've been intending to complain to PALS since my last hospital visit and was actually advised to do so by the Head of Midwifery in that meeting. In theory, I still intend to do it, but I find it quite difficult to go back over and by the time I felt ready to start thinking about it again, I found that I'd forgotten a lot of the detail.

Did you hear anything at all from them, Mshappy?

I think if I felt it would have any impact at all I might be inclined to do it, but I'm cynical.

mshappy - contractions do not 'come on top of each other' They come 5 minutes apart so you have around 4 minutes to brace yourself for the next one. This happens to all woman. When you are in transition they can come 2-3 minutes apart but this is the shortest stage of labour so at least you know it is almost over.

nonamesavailable - contractions may not have come on top of each other for you but your complete lack of understanding or empathy for anyone else's experience other than your own and your condescending attitude is bewildering. Many women who experience a back to back birth do have contractions that come on top of each other.

As for being able to tell the women who will have an epidural immmediately - that is just patronising. I was a home birth that transferred after 16 hours and got to 7cm on nothing but paracetamol but then needed an epidural for my labour augmentation. I was fully educated about what would happen in birth and all of the pros and cons of each intervention. The judgements you make about other women's choices are based on the luck you experienced during your labour, don't believe that you have any idea of the pain and fear many other women experience.

And as for "hissy fit women" demanding anaesthetic cream to numb before having a cannula inserted, this was the most painful part of my entire back to back labour and recovery, much worse than the 3rd degree tear recovery caused by my keillands forceps delivery.

Just because you have experienced something positively does not give you the right to invalidate other women's experiences

like i keep saying over and over ad nauseam - i KNOW it doesnt apply to everyone. read back - ive said it many times. I am referring to the woman like the one on page one who was quite proud of the fact she was going to march in there and demand one.

nonamesavailable - how many babies have you had? Three. Three labours and you presume to pronounce on what is normal for all women?! What breathtaking arrogance.

I can assure you contractions can, and do, come on top of each other. I had the most horrendous labour with my DS, who was back to back. There was no such thing as a break between contractions for hours and hours. I didn't have an epidural or any other pain relief - not even gas and air until about 7cm dilated. That entire labour was hell on earth.

Then I had my DD and experienced a normal labour, with nicely spaced contractions with breaks in between. It was so easy in comparison and very quick.

Perhaps you have only experienced the latter, but I think you are incredibly blinkered to assume that everyone else's labour must have followed the same pattern. You were one of the lucky ones.

gaelicsheep - thanks for informing me . I didnt know about back to back labours. Im talking about MOST labours though so not really breathtaking arrogance.

Like I said before - im not talking about people like you who had problems. Im talking about those who 'think' they cant cope with the pain and start demanding an epidural from the get go.

I have always thought myself lucky but i also did a LOT of swotting up beforehand.

I chose a home birth because i didnt want anyone sticking a massive needle in my spinal chord. I was the complete opposite to the 'give me every drug going' brigade.

Maybe they 'think' they can't cope because their baby is an undiagnosed back-to-back.

Mine was.

Come to find out, she also had her hand up cupping her head above the ear.

By comparison, my second labour was fast and short and I didn't use any pain relief.

With my third, pain as with my first. He was well over 2lbs. heavier than his sisters and had cord wrapped round his neck.

To be fair you said this: "contractions do not 'come on top of each other' They come 5 minutes apart so you have around 4 minutes to brace yourself for the next one. This happens to all woman (my emphasis). "

I'm glad you recognise that whilst this might describe most labours, it is not the case for all labours.

However IME most midwives think the same as what you wrote. I was not believed. They thought I was some silly woman who didn't know what pain was. Still makes me to this day.

My transition with my second, the drug-free one I gave birth to on my knees and had only a graze, was like one big contraction with no let up in between.

nonamesavailable

"mshappy - contractions do not 'come on top of each other' They come 5 minutes apart so you have around 4 minutes to brace yourself for the next one. This happens to all woman. When you are in transition they can come 2-3 minutes apart but this is the shortest stage of labour so at least you know it is almost over."

Utter CRAP !!

Same here expat. And my first labour with DS was like that for hours, from 2cm to about 7cm IIRC. Once I was allowed in the pool it slowed down a little and at transition I was getting super strong, super painful contractions, but 3 minutes apart.

With DD I got to the point of continuous contractions when I reached hospital and thought, OMG here we go again. I asked for an epidural (because even though I am terrified of the thought I was that desperate at the thought of repeating my first experience). Then I was pushing and DD was born 20 mins later.