"you can't have G&A yet cos you're only 5cm"

[glovesoflove]

That's bollocks isn't it? Any midwives be able to explain if it is true?

I had gas and air as soon as I was in the labour room - I was being induced and it was hurting a lot, by the time I'd had g&a, pethidine, and an epidural I still only managed 6cm before I was carted off for a section.
If they'd made me wait til 5cm I would have had a total meltdown.

It's surely bollocks. I was 4cm dilated when I demanded asked for gas and air.

I was only 4cm when I went into labour room and I aid I really want gas and air and she gave it to me

mind you I had gecko within two hours from then

Yup, no idea how dilated I was, I was just given it when I asked.

I had G&A as soon as I got in the delivery room, wasn't very far along at all, certainly not 5cm.

You should be able to get it then cos 4-5cm is active labour isn't it? G&A wouldn't slow down contractions like e.g. an epidural or getting in the water.

:( the penny has only just dropped 9 months later. I DID have a meltdown. Baby was OP to boot and it felt like something was sawing through the back of my pelvis. I never got the epidural I asked for either despite them putting synto up when I was already fully dilated and me pushing for three hours with no result. No wonder I actually quite enjoyed the EMCS part. I am having an elective section if there's a next time.

You poor thing.
I was offered an epidural because of the level of distress I was in, I hadn't intended to have one.

It's bollocks. I was given g&a at 2cm to help with my sweep, and the midwife left it with me.

She said, "you will probably find you need this later on, so try not to use it until you're a couple more cm dilated. But ... I won't take it away from you!"

The team was then happy to discuss an epidural with me, and when I was still just 5cm dilated and said, "I'd really like my epidural now..." they had an anaesthatist in the room within 5 minutes.

That's how hospitals should be.

I had an epidural at 4cm.

If I were you, I'd definitely have a CS. It seems to be the only time they actually take women seriously.

I had this when I was 4-5cm dilated with DD, I asked for gas and air and was told I couldn't have it. No explanation of why but pethidine was offered instead. So I had that, then anaother. Then when it wore off I asked for an epidural as I didn't ask for the gas again. Ended up with a crap CTG and a crash section.

I'm now a midwife and I know now why the m/w said no to me. Some midwives think (especially when its first baby) that you're going to be on average 18 hours in labour. If you start on the gas too early you wear yourself out, get really tired, etc. They think its better to have pethidine early on and gas later.

I do see the logic in that and will warn women that they could be hours and hours but at the end of the day I let them make their own mind up. They could wizz on and have a 5 hour labour and be fine anyway.

I wish I could have had it sooner, I would have coped much better. The worst thing has been thinking that I made a show of myself - I was on my own for ages and couldn't help swearing and shouting. DP came back and a MW appeared - to tell me off for swearing. Cow.

They offered me some paracetamol. I told them to fuck off. Eventually I got G&A, it helped but not enough. I was offered nothing else and left alone with curtains pulled. In the end I heard them giving girl in next bed diamorphine so demanded some myself.

The gas didn't wear me out but the intolerable pain did how come "pain is what the patient says it is" doesn't apply to midwives? I'd have been in deep shit as a nurse if I'd belittled a patient's pain and witheld analgesia for no good reason.

ds was op - I too ended up with a CS which, in comparison to the 12 hours leading up to it, was bliss. I'd have one again.

I am not remotely surprised you told them to fuck off.

If it's any consolation, I had G&A from early on but it didn't really work until I had the epidural - I was in too much pain to use the nozzley thing properly I think.

'how come "pain is what the patient says it is" doesn't apply to midwives? I'd have been in deep shit as a nurse if I'd belittled a patient's pain and witheld analgesia for no good reason.'

Too fucking right! Good point!

It seems childbirth is a special area, because it's all females who give birth, where patients are completely ignored, belittled, bullied, lied to and treated even worst than children, where healthcare providers can behave however they please with impunity.

Pain relief aside, there have been people on here whose babies died because midwives wouldn't listen to the mother and father, that something was wrong, until it was too late.

utter fucking bollocks.

I was told this too when I was in labour with ds. The labour progressed so quickley that he was delivered about 10 minutes after they refused me g&a so I had no pain relief at all. I seriously thought I was dying (I know how melodramatic this sounds!)

The mw even had the cheek to say to me afterwards 'I bet your glad you didn't have any pain relief now!'

Er no... i'm bloody not.

No, it isn't true, but we do try to give entonox only once someone is in 'established labour'. However, that is a debatable point and I tend to go more by someone's body language rather than make assumptions as to how far they are progressing. Having said that, as a midwife it is not our role to simply give any and all pain relief that is asked for, but to try to guide women toward the appropriate pain relief for each stage of labour. For example, entonox may not be appropriate if we think someone is in slow labour that may last for several days and an epidural is not appropriate before roughly 4cm. Similarly, a woman may as for diamorphine but a warm bath might actually do the trick so we may suggest that. It is a very difficult art, not a science, and we do get it wrong sometimes it's true.

expatinscotland, I have just read your post and I take offence I'm afraid. Please think about things before you post them, it is a truly terrible event in the life of a midwife when a baby dies during or soon after labour and it is not always preventable I'm sorry to say, sometimes awful things happen, despite best efforts.
Unlike nurses, midwives generally deal with well women and the pain of childbirth is completely different to the pain of a broken leg for example where it means that the body is in danger. I don't mean it should be ignored but it should not be confused with a medical emergency.

reikizen, the midwife I had on delivery was fab and a few of my pals are mws - I don't mean offence to you as an occ group and I agree with you up to a point. However, I was clearly in great pain AND progressing quickly. I had been labouring at home (planned hb), comm mw decided to transfer me.
And not all nurses give emerg care!

Reikizen well I am afraid I take offence at your post.

I can guarantee you that it is not such a "truely terrible event" in a MW's life as it is for the parents.

Please think about what you post.

i was told when starting to push with dc1 that i couldnt have G&A cause i wouldnt be able to co-ordinate breathing with the G&A and pushing at the same time!!!!! absolute bollocks!! this was after they had turned the epidural completely off so that i could feel how to push!!!!.

I went over and over the labour in my mind - a bit like you're doing glovesoflove and sadly it wasnt until the safe and easier delivery of dc2 that i was able to get over it. There are people you can talk to about the delivery - think they are MW's who had nothing to do with your care but can counsel you and explain some of the decisions made. I really wish i'd done that after dc1 - it would have saved me years of anger and feelings of failure!

"I don't understand how screaming at the top of my lungs during and between contractions at 2cm is more energy conserving than breathing gas and air. That doesn't make sense to me at all. Sorry, but it doesn't.

"

No but perhaps having pethidine and relaxing might be better.

I don't think anyone could do gas and air for 18 hours which is the average labour for a first time mum.

So what's better - pethidine at first, get to 6-7cm maybe on that and then have gas for the last few hours.

Or use gas till you're so tired you feel your eyes are bleeding, beg for pethidine or more likely an epidural at that point. End up having pethidine nearer the birth and get b/f off to not the best start. Or the epidural increasing the chance of an instrumental.

I'm not saying what's better - not my place to. But its something that should be discussed with the woman so she can make an informed choice.

However where I work we can only give gas and air to someone in establised labour - 4cm. I wouldn't be allowed to give you gas and air before then unless for a short period, like during an examination. Its hospital policy. Pethidine/diamorphine can be given at 2cm if prescribed by a Dr.