Anyone else 'tricked' out of epidural?

[liznay]

I went over my birth notes today at the 'Birth Reflections' service at my local hospital. (In order to get closure and prepare for No 2!)
To cut a long story short, My previous labour was 27 hours from start to finish although I was only admitted for the last 7 hours.

I asked for an epidural no less than 6 times during this period and was given the excuse that I needed to be 4 cm before I could get one.
Suprise, Suprise, no one would examine me to check how dilated I was and so then it became 'too late' to give me once I had reached 10 cm.
Despite Nice guidelines saying that no woman should be refused an epidural (even in the latent first stage!) apparently the hospital have their own policy.
I am SO ANGRY about this and feel that I was ignored and treated like a small child. Incidentally, the hospital are unapologetic about this and refused to say sorry about the care I received. The most that they would conceed was that they had 'somehow failed me'.
Why is this still happening to us in the 21st century? Anyone else had a similar experience? What can we do about it, and how can we prevent it happening for subsequent births? It's time that midwives stopped deciding for us how much pain relief we need and consult with us regarding how to make our births more comfortable. Not saying that all midwives are like this, but mine was a particular dragon....
I don't want this to turn into a debate on the pro's/cons of epidurals as this has been done to death elsewhere...

you don't get any prizes for having the hardest birth.

50 yrs from now they will look back on us and ask why it was we suffered so much?

If we have the technology to make the whole birthing experience better- lets do it. For those who think women should suffer etc- go give birth in a mud hut in Africa

And quote of the week goes to harlet

Sorry accept!

Another one here who was tricked out of an epidural in exactly the same way as you OP. I suspected it was because they were trying to get their figures down. I was fucking livid!

Do you know I'm on the verge of throwing my hands up in the air and saying "f* it". My/our point of view is not respected, the theme of this thread is wanting to be listened to but in reality very few on here are actually willing to listen to what every single midwife on here is saying.

However I'm pretty sure that if the 'Epidural no matter the costs' gang get their wish, maternity services in the UK will be taking a massive step backwards. back to the days of routine shaves, enemas and episiotomies, in a bid to keep childbirth sanitised, clean and painless. Fine if that is what the majority want but I for one think it's that way that madness lies.

I call it pitocin because that was what they gave me when I was induced with DS in the US. It's the same drug as syntocinon and given for the same reason to induce labor or speed up labour but two different brand names.

Miapops, your post is beyond belief. Why should adequate pain relief only be available for women who can pay for private care? Why is adequate pain relief available for men and women in post op in the NHS, but not for women giving birth? Why isn't there enough to go round? Why are women left carrying the can? The 'basic problem' here is that there are midwives who don't seem to either like or respect women very much.

And no, it's not an exact science, Nomorefuzz, but epidurals were designed and are continuing to be refined, with that inexactness in mind. The most inexact posters here have been the members of the midwifery profession or art or whatever it is they see themselves as. Of course you can't predict how fast a woman's labour will go -- so you think a precious drop of syntocinon will go to waste if you let someone have it?

Some midwives here obviously cannot accept many truths about their role and their deeply held beliefs. Some women would gladly prefer to be called a 'patient' and treated like a patient in severe pain than be treated like a 'woman' (i.e. with your preferences devalued and your experience ignored).

And sorry, but this whole 'with woman' thing sounds more and more like patronising silliness the more it is posted, like some farcical mockery of feminism. 'Midwifery is an art, as you become more familiar with the art of midwifery it is often little more than a gut feeling that leads you to the conclusion a baby is going to be born soon. Sounds mad when you say it like that huh?' Well, yes, it does. Give me science any day.

'I find the calling of midwives "Lazy arse" extremely offensive.
The amount of ignorance and misinformation set out here in so many ways is perhaps partially the failing of midwives.
However giving birth is an inexact science- some women cannot except this.'

So keep on focusing on that one part of a post and how offended you are rather than the hundreds of other posts on here from women who were not listened to.

Keep banging on about it, getting defensive, justifying away instead of, again, listening to the thrust of this thread including the OP.

Is it any wonder there are still so many women on here sharing experiences about not being listened to by their midwives?

It goes round and round in circles and this thread leaves no mystery as to why.

'My/our point of view is not respected, the theme of this thread is wanting to be listened to but in reality very few on here are actually willing to listen to what every single midwife on here is saying.'

As much as every single midwife on here appears to be unwilling to listen to any of these hundreds of posters now, they seem only interested in defending and justifying and ideaology.

DrMcDreamy I must admit I have been too lazy too read the whole thread but I don't think anyone is suggesting that epidurals should be routine - just available if asked for? And I don't actually think that clean and painless sounds too much like madness tbh.

Expat, nowhere has anyone said that women should be routinely denied pain relief. Nowhere.

I forgot, my bad. As you were.

63 more posts, folks.

'til what expat?

Till it closes unless HQ open it up for more comments.

My advice for anyone about to have a baby is to do your research as well as you can beforehand:

Check that the hospital that you are giving birth at has a dedicated anaesthetist for the labour ward (and change hospital if they haven't, if at all possible)

If you write a birth-plan make it flexible on your position regarding pain relief and try not to have too high or specific expectations on the kind of birth you want (e.g. only natural or like mine, 'no stirrups or forceps, please', because what did I have , but didn't care by then)

Be persistent in asking for the epidural (my husband and I had to restate 3 or 4 times that I wanted an epidural and that 'no, I won't regret it'). In the end I had to assume my most persuasive senior manager personality to get across that I very seriously wanted this but actually think that really helped, that oddly, the more rational I was (appeared to be), the more willing the midwife was to believe that I truly wanted/needed an epidural.

Most MWs do an amazing job - seems a shame so many of them are getting trashed on this thread. I am not denigrating other's experiences though before I get flamed!

I always thought that the MW as a medical professional who was there to guide you through the birth. Sometimes you might not like the advice or guidance I guess but I don't think trying to disaude someone from an epi in the late stages of labour when it is clear the baby is nearly born, is necessarily a bad thing surely? We go along with medical advice from doctors, why not Midwives. Maybe they DO know best at that stage?

I had an epi for my first and regretted it as it slowed everything down and I feel I missed out on the whole experience as couldn't feel a thing. But that's my thing I suppose. For me birth should be 'an experience', letting my hormones and body do the work was an amazing but yes, painful experience. I realise this isn't for everyone though just worry about a sense of entitlement for a pain free labour.

But asking for pain relief when the pain gets too much/goes on too long is not asking for "pain free labour".

Also, the OP and most early posters were refused epidural long before transition.

Not disagreeing really - Not making specific comments in relation to some of the poor experiences on here either. Just commenting I suppose on a trend for birth without inconvenience when after all it's one of the most natural experiences.

I did a pregnancy yoga class and it was the most revealing course, with tons of info about birth, which hormones do what, the stages in detail etc etc. if anything that info should be made available to women at the ante-natal stage as it was a real eye opener to me. Of course some women might not want to go down this route still and that would be a choice of course.

Having the info didn't make the birth any less painful but felt more in control as knew exactly what was happening and what the impact of any intervention would be.

Just my experience though and not saying it has to be everyones.

Its a shame a few bad experiences are being applied to maternity services all over the UK.

With my first baby I was induced and after 4 hours of (very painful) contractions my MW said 'Have you thought about an epidural?' I nearly kissed her, I said 'yes I have but didn't think you'd want to give me one!!' DD was born 2 hours later, but the epidural wasn't very effective, only worked down one side and I ended up needing an instrumental delivery.It was a short, but very traumatic birth. My 2nd baby, 2 years later was born in a different hospital, where I begged and begged for an epidural and was fobbed off again and again. When the anaesthetist was finally called, 6 hours later, he put the catheter in my back and then was called away to an emergency before he started the infusion or whatever they call it. So it came as a suprise to me when I was pushing my hardest, telling the midwife how much it was hurting that she said 'no it doesn't, you've had an epidural' I had an episiotomy with only gas and air (that ran out and they replaced it with an empty tank) and was stitched up without any local anaesthetic, no gas and air. All the while the MW maintained it wasn't hurting me, I'd had an epidural. It was only after DS was born that she glanced at my notes and said 'oh, no you didn't have the epidural, he never started it' That said, I'm glad I did it without, I've now had both experiences and can say that, if you feel like you're coping, do it without. If I had another one (which I won't) I'm pretty sure I'd know how to manage it better.

Canugess There is insufficient funding everywhere generally. But it is only in maternity that I hear about people being denied pain relief (and quite a lot judging by this thread).

I got as far as Friday 11th, A.M., and stopped reading. I'm sobbing here.

It was nearly sixteen years ago that I had DD1 and yet I'm sitting here sobbing at the memory of being given a ventouse delivery having been told 30 minutes earlier that the baby couldn't be coming, I had hours to go yet. I was for an epidural but apparently the anaesthetist was busy and it was too late.

Yes, that's right, "the" anaesthetist. One. In the all singing all dancing maternity hospital, next to it's sister-building, a major university city teaching hospital.

Admittedly I went from 3cm to birth in an hour and 20 minutes but even so. Owing to the ventouse I tore so badly and bled so profusely that they wanted to take me into theatre, claiming I'd die otherwise. I told them no, they weren't going to hurt me any more - eventually they stitched me up without anaesthetic in the delivery room.

I wanted to die. Had theu been able to kill me or the baby I'd have let them.

Hand on heart, 16 years on. The fear and distress still grips me as if it were yesterday.

I thank whatever god is up there and my GP for the caesarean he suggested and supported me in obtaining when I had my second child.

Until tonight I honestly felt that I was alone, that 99.99% of other women who asked for an epidural got one. It hurts and distresses me even more to learn tonight that this is far, far from the case.

DrMcDreamy, wasn't there a reference upthread about 24% of women not receiving the pain relief they wanted? I don't call that a few bad experiences. That is a tremendously high failure rate for the system. Imagine those figures in any other medical field and people would be up in arms.

In all fairness it is very creditable of you to be on this thread and stick your neck out for the midwives - but I am, together I think with many other posters, exasperated by the fact that nothing we say seems to be taken on board - the agenda seems to be to defend the status quo at all costs while rejecting any blame whatsoever and ignoring any evidence that does not fit the ideology. This is all the more frustrating on a thread where one common theme is that women are not listened to in labour.

In 2011 it is appalling that there are even "a few bad experiences" DrMcDreamy.

Why do HCP in maternity services find it so hard to believe that women want to be listerned to and treated as adults with dignity and respect? That they are not lying when they say that they are in pain that they find unbearable and want the pain relief that they have been told is available?

This attitude is not displayed in any other area of health care so why is it acceptable in maternity care?

I wish that I'd read threads like this when I was pregnant, although it might have scared the living daylights out of me.

I did a little reading about labour, attended antenatal classes, wrote my birth plan, and lay myself in the hands of the medical profession.

Could I have been any more naive

I'm pretty good at fighting my own corner. But I was so taken aback.

a) Not one person read my birth plan. Or if they did, I didn't get to meet them.
b) The general patronising disbelief that I was in labour at all was frankly bizarre (definitely in labour, transition an hour after arriving).

c) I was anticipating a cosy chat with my midwife about the best way to manage the pain. The point blank refusal of any form of pain relief whatsoever was a bit of a shock (except the fucking aromatherapy....sorry, mentioned that on another thread)
d) My stuck baby, the tearing, the insertion of a catheter, making me try to sit straight enough for a spinal when eventually taken to theatre, during what by that point was one endless contraction (oh and the anaesthetist's disgust at my apparent apathy to do so)... all without any kind of pain relief, not even a whiff of G&A.

By the time they got the spinal in I was shaking so hard that the bed and the stuff I was attached to were shaking with me.

I could go on (and on) but this is the bit relating to pain relief. I was under the illusion that the staff whose care I was under would take care of me and that I didn't need a medical qualification and a focused argument to give birth in a humane manner.

It's still an extremely emotional subject for me and 19 months on, I can't yet face the thought of doing it again. Actually it's still painful full stop but that's another thread