Anyone else 'tricked' out of epidural?

[liznay]

I went over my birth notes today at the 'Birth Reflections' service at my local hospital. (In order to get closure and prepare for No 2!)
To cut a long story short, My previous labour was 27 hours from start to finish although I was only admitted for the last 7 hours.

I asked for an epidural no less than 6 times during this period and was given the excuse that I needed to be 4 cm before I could get one.
Suprise, Suprise, no one would examine me to check how dilated I was and so then it became 'too late' to give me once I had reached 10 cm.
Despite Nice guidelines saying that no woman should be refused an epidural (even in the latent first stage!) apparently the hospital have their own policy.
I am SO ANGRY about this and feel that I was ignored and treated like a small child. Incidentally, the hospital are unapologetic about this and refused to say sorry about the care I received. The most that they would conceed was that they had 'somehow failed me'.
Why is this still happening to us in the 21st century? Anyone else had a similar experience? What can we do about it, and how can we prevent it happening for subsequent births? It's time that midwives stopped deciding for us how much pain relief we need and consult with us regarding how to make our births more comfortable. Not saying that all midwives are like this, but mine was a particular dragon....
I don't want this to turn into a debate on the pro's/cons of epidurals as this has been done to death elsewhere...

This thread with quotes is on BBC breakfast news now. BBC 1

have just seen it. it's so unfair :/

underachieving and frozenorthpole - :(

i asked for an epidural when having dd five years ago, i was told that the anesthetist wasn't available - yet found out later they had been, then told i wasn't in enough pain - at which point i threw up because i was wasn't in pain , then told it was too late for an epiudural. i was in so much pain, i was half out my head and painkillers didn't work, i couldn't stnad the gas and air - it was horrible.

i was a size 8 before pregnancy, dd ended up being 9lb 1/2oz - i had to have natural labout through which i relaly struggled. at breakfast the morning after i manaegd to get out of bed, there was a much larrger lady who'd had a 9lb baby yet got offered a caesarean cos she was struggling

I was told I wasn't allowed a epi, no reason really given and ended up like a caged animal having to be restrained by midwives. The experience really put me off, and I know that in the event I had a second child I would have massive anxiety about the birth. I have already decided next time to be far more assertive, but what point is there if there is no hope of having any control? I felt powerless, scared and that I was totally out of control. How can this happen in the 21st century?

Who are these idiots all over the news channels this morning like a bad dose of thrush? Complaining that midwives won't give epidurals.

Seriously?! They want Doris from down the road to be shoving a thick needle through their backbone just millimetres from the wide bundle of nerves that controls every single bodily function from the waist down?

I would be reluctant to let a trained anaesthesist do that, I CERTAINLY would not want some earth mother having a crack at it.

Mumsnet has little enough credibility with the general public as it is without letting its lunatic fringe go on national television to give it an even worse name.

It seems to me that there is a breakdown in the decision-making process. Childbirth is not like shelling peas and is deliberately designed to not be a particularly pleasant experience as a means of stopping rampant population explosions. People who want to go through the process drugged up to the eyeballs are subverting nature.

Either accept the process for what it is - messy, noisy and painful, or keep your legs crossed next time since the one thing the planet is not short of is people. I have no sympathy.

apologies if this has already been mentioned but:

North Cumbria Hospitals had NO provision for epidurals at any of their facilities when I had my first last year. I wasn't lied to and I did receive absolutely outstanding care from the midwives at Carlisle's Cumberland Infirmary, but I had a very long first labour and I needed an epidural. I would not choose to go through that experience again and will travel the hour and a half to Lancaster or Newcastle next time.

I found out a few weeks before my due date and was (and still am) utterly amazed that no-one had made a huge fuss/started any kind of campaign about this: I don't understand how a whole Trust can be without proper pain relief provision and get away with it.

At one of the hospitals in the North east of Scotland, you cannot have an epidural but they will perform c sections if required! (and one assumes with the appropriate spinal anaesthesia!)

That just seems bizarre to me.

Mind you, I'm hoping for a homebirth this time with DC2 but the one thing putting me off is the fact that I am only 'allowed' 30 mins of gas and air -though midwife said I could maybe have another lot of 30 mins brought round??? And yet it's coming out of the walls of my local maternity hospital? And I could arrange for a prescription of a controlled substance diamorphine from my GP (which I didn't want or need in labour last time) but I'm not allowed a decent supply of entonox?

I have a meeting with the consultant midwife in a few weeks to see if a HB is medically feasible after my last birth and I will be bringing this up, especially as it appears that provision varies from are to area within my region.

m185874 - I don't think you can say that childbirth is designed to be unpleasant - not unless you're taking as your text the famous bible verse in Genesis, about man's punishment being to toil the earth, and woman's being to labour in childbirth.

Personally I take the view of evolutionary scientists that it's the result of the clash between the benefits of walking upright on two legs ( and subsequent size of pelvic opening ) and babies having large enough heads for their well developed brains.

It seems strange to say "I have no sympathy" - though that would fit rather with the tone of your post

I was given an epidural on immediate arrival at the hospital. I had to sign a consent form but essentially it was forced on me for medical reasons. My teeth chattered, I shook and went into shock at the mention of it. My 'birth plan' had always stated that I did not want an epidural. I was terrified of the needle being inserted into my spine and being deprived of my sense of feeling.
Beyond that, I have a healthy daughter and I am fine.
From my experience, my own pre-concieved ideas contributed to my distress. I believe birth plans are a bad idea as they create false expectations that in the dynamic situation of giving birth can not always be realised.
Expectant mothers need to be realistic.

I couldnt believe that the women on BBC representing midwives suggested there was a breakdown in commuinication and trust between mum and midwife - I mean how does she account for the lady who asked for one sixed times, neither interviewer pursued this. I thought a better stance would have been to try and use it as a platform to highlight the need for midwives and resources in maternity wards instead of fudging a silly indirect response - I was flaming well annoyed at seeing this and I havnt experienced such a situation. I had a CS with DS1 and TTC - OMG I am saving up now to go private, this really has scared me and we live in West Midlands which has the highest mortality rates during/after birth.

This is a mothers issue past, present and future and should be campaigned for.

I sat watching 'Breakfast' this morning with my 14 year old daughter, when the article regarding pain relief during labour was aired.
Whoever she was, I can only now refer to her as ?woman? as I didn?t hear her name.
I became enrage watching the article.
What a stupid and self-obsessed woman.
Does she think it is helpful to go on national television and emotionally declare to millions of young girls who may be watching that childbirth is (not could be) a traumatizing event? This was her experience and not representative of millions of other women.
She was totally irresponsible and needs to get grip!
Should my daughter suffer from post- traumatic stress after childbirth, brought on by the negative and frightening views of this woman and others like her, she will no doubt turn to their charity for support. So, the woman?s achievement this morning was to frighten and traumatise the next generation and the survival of her charity.
Congratulations- you idiot!

m185874 are you an android?

Late to this thread, but I have read it with much interest.

I didn't have an epidural as the midwives did not believe that after 24 hours of labour I was dilated at all. I was treated like a silly child before a doctor came on the scene and confirmed that I was actually fully dilated and DD was beech.

Ended up with a c-section and will not be having any more children due to this experience.

Breech..DD was not a tree!

I assume that because the 'woman' on BBC breakfast represents an organisation then she is not just speaking for herself but for many other women in that situation, so I wouldn't say she is particularly self-obsessed.

Birth experiences vary, we are all built differently so why would we not experience different levels of pain? (Note: I didn't say we all had different pain thresholds, I find that a very patronising notion).

"m185874 are you an android?"
LOL

unbelievable..... m185874 should be condemned by law to have all her teeth and cavities drilled without anesthesia throughout her life...
why childbirth has to be natural and teeth drilling not ?

some people are just out of this world....

GMajor7 - maybe m185874 might think that there is no use for anaesthesia in any situation?

Like I said...android.

I had a spinal for my emcs. Perhaps I should have refused it so as not to 'subvert nature'

Does she think it is helpful to go on national television and emotionally declare to millions of young girls who may be watching that childbirth is (not could be) a traumatizing event? This was her experience and not representative of millions of other women.
She was totally irresponsible and needs to get grip!

Actually Pooky, it IS the experience of many, many women who then contact the BTA for the kind of help and support which is not offered by any other organisation, charitable or otherwise.

'Woman'(Lucy Jolin) is just one of the volunteers working to help mums (like the many on this thread - are you dismissing them all as stupid and self obsessed too?) who have had horrible, sometimes life changing experiences during childbirth.

I truly hope your daughter never experiences this herself and she would be a rare case indeed to have it caused by a television news programme she watched some years earlier.

Much more likely to be caused by severe pain, loss of control, fear for her own or her baby's life, poor communication.....I could go on.....

Dismissal of her feelings and gross lack of sympathy/empathy after the event won't help her either btw.

Does anyone think midwives are necessary then? Should we switch to a more Americanised system where the doctor is God and midwives are little more than obstetric nurses carrying out the doctors bidding with no autonomy to make decisions of their own?

I am approaching my first birth. My impression so far, and that of my partner is that: i will be discouraged from epidural initially, if I push for it and its not to late I might get one. My overwhelming impression of what is about to happen to me, however, is that I will not be taken seriously once I am in labour so must try to make my choices before then...but how do I know? I am really worried that I am going to request an epidural and it just won't happen.

I think m185874 will find it very frustrating that clearly no-one here are taking their comments seriously, ha ha, better luck next time :)

Hello all

I am the self obsessed idiot on BBC Breakfast this morning who has traumatised a generation by speaking honestly about her birth experience. Hey, blame Sian, she was the one who asked me about it :) But seriously, I think it is helpful to have an honest debate about birth. Things do go wrong. It does hurt. Unless we acknowledge these realities, we can't start to change things for the better.

Anyway, more importantly, I'm also a member of the management committee of the Birth Trauma Association, which has already been mentioned in this thread. We feel very passionately that women should be given the pain relief they need during childbirth. If this means nothing but gas and air and a pool, then they should be allowed that. If it means an epidural, they should be allowed that if there are no contraindications. We have heard from many, many women who have been traumatised by the withholding of pain relief. We believe that this is wrong and it is an attitude that needs to change.

I would also like to thank the person who said she had donated to the BTA - we are an entirely voluntary organisation, we don't get any government funding and none of us get paid for the work we do. I'd also like to let people know that our website address is www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk if they need any advice or help following a traumatic birth. And I'd like to thank those women who have shared their experiences on this thread for helping to bring this issue to a wider audience.

Hope this isn't inappropriate - it seemed rather dishonest to go on TV talking about a thread and then not contribute to it in some way!

Lucy BTA - I'm a mum, and you upset my daughter by your emotional lack of composure and your summary declaration on childbirth towards the end of the interview. You need to consider how your emotions feed others. What you did this morning was NOT helpful.

Not at all, Lucy - Great to hear from you.

I think you're right that we need to acknowledge that giving birth will be challenging and painful almost universally.

From this honest starting point we can look at ways of helping women in the ways they find personally most supportive.

Including adequate resourcing and funding of our crucial maternity services. Such an important time in the lives of women, babies, and their families.

I'm a mum to two daughters, too, it's a tough world out there and if they make a life-changing decision based on what they heard one person say on a radio show, I'll feel I have utterly failed them.

Lucy had every right to express her feelings how she feels them on a public radio show about the very topic she was brought in to discuss.

If you can't police your own kids from listening to that, then that's really your lookout as a parent.