Is wanting a natrual birth unrealistic? Is it all down to luck?

[digggers]

my own experience and the experience of friends really makes me wonder about this. There's no ryhme or reason, it's just so random.

Are people who prepare for and experience the birth they want just lucky? Is childbirth something you can prepare for and influence? Or is an open mind and a thankfulness that in our country we have medical help on hand the best approach? Or should all medical help be viewed with distrust!

Dueling a difficult birth is as much 'bad luck' as an uncomplicated birth is 'good luck

Yes, thats probably a better way to look at it really.

"just an amazing midwife who helped me push my baby out."

See, I wonder if sometimes a lot of it can be to do with the person you have working with you too.

I've changed my mind, it's luck and cycling. The Dutch home birth as a matter of course with limited intervention BUT they cycle everywhere. These two things are undoubtedly connected!

So if you want a low intervention home birth get on your bike.!

Natural i also planned what time of day i wanted them to arrive and as much as you may all want to complain about it, i gave birth at the time of day i planned as well

Now I really think you are deluded.

I really wanted to have 2nd labour at a weekend otherwise childcare was going to be a real issue and as it happens along came baby on a Sunday, to e fair starting on the Friday night I did as many old wives tales as I could think of to try to start labour - maybe one of them worked - who knows!!

Dueling Yep, agree with you again. I had my DH with me both times, he was so good as my support I think I should hire him out to others! I was also fortunate to get lovely MWs with me in birth not like the dragonlady who came on shift a little later and was horrid!

it's not deluded! it happened!! particularly 2nd baby who arrived just in time for us to get cleared up and sorted before ds1 woke up in his own bed upstairs.

Argh! Can't seem to stay away!

natural - there is nothing wrong with being chuffed that you had a natural delivery and being proud that you tried your best.

Thing is, I did everything that you did. But my delivery went badly. I had all my Plan B, Plan C stuff organised, but that didn't take into account a OB who was dead set against me (baby wasn't in trouble, just me at that point, so no excuses). He was willing to wait for as long as necessary to get me to sign consent for him, and meanwhile I was writhing around in agony, having not slept for 3 nights, and not eaten or drunk for 24 hours (constantly vomiting, anti-emetics no help).

I did cope very well for the first 12 hours of full-on active labour, which would have been enough for most deliveries, except that OFP did not work. No natural techniques are 100% guaranteed. Even Ina May Gaskin has a 3% C section rate, because sometimes the anatomy of the mother or baby is such that the baby just can't be born naturally.

I sometimes feel that women in labour are done a real disservice because of the complete polarisation there seems to be amongst childbirth professionals. You seem to get the "no point in doing a birth plan", "things will go as they will and there's nothing you can do", very medicalised point of view, or you have the natural, do all the techniques and it will all be lovely, epidurals are the work of the devil people (thinking of whatshername Mongan here particularly).

But the reality is that neither viewpoint encompasses all women.

natural I think we'll have to agree to disagree then. I still think you are deluded and just hope you don't voice your opinions too loudly in RL as I honestly think you will hurt some women with them.

I'm off to get DC out of bed

The position of the baby, how ideal or not your pelvis is, the progress of labour. Those things are mostly luck and out of our control. But being emotionally and physically prepared can help us make the most of the cards we're dealt. I'm lucky with my pelvis and labours but my 2nd and 3rd were massively easier, not just because that's the way of things but because I wasn't scared. My first was horrid even though in reality it was progressing well and my fear led to me asking for more interventions and making everything worse although I still managed a normal delivery. My second was textbook low intervention in a mlu so when it came to my third when they refused me a mlu birth and the midwife kept trying to get me to take pain relief I just got on with it because I knew I could iyswim.

naturalbaby how do you respond to those who did plan and prepare but did not have either a "natural" delivery or the one which they planned?

Were they not prepared enough?

Having had three absolutely -couldn't-be- more-diffent-from-each-other labours I just can't accept they would have turned out any differently whatever my efforts/plans/state of mind.

Starlight also genuine question - how can you increase the chances of the cord not wrapping around the neck?

molly your argument obviously works for you, but not everyone.

As I said in PP I was terrified giving bith to DC2. Absolutely, vomit inducing, panic attack making terrified. And the labour was "easy", although longer than first. DC1 I was excited, emotionally and physically prepared and positive and it was the labour from hell.

Of course woman should be encouraged to enter labour positively, but encouraging woman to believe they are in control of the outcome does them a disservice. Because it is simply not true.

i do admit it was partly luck as well that the anatomy of my babies and myself were right so i could give birth naturally, as i said i was prepared to be whisked off to hospital if necessary. i just think it's a shame that success stories should make some women feel so guilty and angry, rather than be an inspiration to other pregnant women.

I love reading about Ina May Gaskin's work, surprisingly.

My sister was doing a gynae rotation when i was pregnant 1st time round and horrified at my plans. she was surrounded by medical professionals who simply didn't believe in a natural home birth because they spent all day surrounded by extreme examples of what could and did go wrong.

Wow, thank you for all the replies, it's certainly a contentious and emotive issue. Hope everyone can continue to respect each other's opinions and be kind if this thread continues to run.

I think it's luck. Definately luck. But any preparation that you can do to help you to stay calm, will help you deal with whatever unfolds. Any I think the better informed you are can help you make better choices and not be as scared of the unknown. But mainly I think it's down to luck.

there's encouraging women to believe they are in control of the outcome - which i was, and there's being realistic about the possible outcomes - which i also was. it was no disservice to me that i was convinced i could have the birth i wanted.

Naturalbaby: 'i also planned what time of day i wanted them to arrive and as much as you may all want to complain about it, i gave birth at the time of day i planned as well'

Either you are completely bonkers or you are a birthing phenomenen. If the latter, perhaps you could explain exactly how you did it - it could save the NHS a fortune not to mention revolutionising the birth experience for millions of women.

starlight with the greatest of respect (and I do mean that because you do seem to have a great deal of knowledge on the subject of childbirth) that is the sort of crap that does woman a huge disservice.

As a member of sands I sadly know a number of woman who have lost their babies due to having the cord wrapped around their necks. For anyone to suggest that this was in someway due to their lack of preparation is grossly insensitive and worse, simply untrue.

Dunno but I had a fabulous ELCS and consider myself very lucky because of it

Mostly luck, I agree, but my obstetrician told me that the reason I managed to get DS1 out after 15 hours without forceps or CS was that she had been very firm with me, told me off for being lazy and told me I was heading for intervention - she reckoned that labouring women did need to know it could be very hard work and they had to apply themselves to it. Second time round had no time to think about working hard - much, much easier. Some years onfrom the experiences I tend to think that is is because I am from good solid agricultural stock !

It's cycling, believe me, it is! However many Dutch women a year cant be wrong!

i don't respond or judge other women's birth stories - i don't believe i have? i don't feel i have the right or that it's fair as i don't know the full story, and nobody can say how things could have worked out if done differently. i feel guilty enough listening to most of them when i could go on and on about how fantastic mine were.

i was only trying to point out that i strongly believe that being as prepared as i was means i got the births i wanted and i'm not going to put my experiences down to luck.

I think a lot of its luck, probably with a bit of temperament thrown in around the edges.

I went into labour with both DCs late in the evening (11am and 1am). I think that, had I had a full night's sleep and gone into labour in the morning, I might have been able to cope with things a little better. But the second night without sleep was just too much.

i am bonkers - i loved being in labour and am really looking forward to doing it a 3rd time, however it turns out.

i only did the courses that many other women do, yes there were plenty on the same courses who didn't get the birth they planned but i am not expert enough to suggest why or pass judgement on them. i certainly would never consider any sort of medical intervention a failure as it is there to save lives.