Is wanting a natrual birth unrealistic? Is it all down to luck?

[digggers]

my own experience and the experience of friends really makes me wonder about this. There's no ryhme or reason, it's just so random.

Are people who prepare for and experience the birth they want just lucky? Is childbirth something you can prepare for and influence? Or is an open mind and a thankfulness that in our country we have medical help on hand the best approach? Or should all medical help be viewed with distrust!

Natural i planned my births with military precision and they happened exactly the way i planned them because i feel i was totally prepared and did everything i could to influence the way i laboured and gave birth ie totally in control with minimum/no intervention

You see, when I read that, it just makes me think you're lucky and deluded.

Good on you for being prepared and planned BUT, it wasn;'t your preparations that meant your DC didn't have his cord round his neck causing him to become oxygen starved and distressed was it? (just the first example I thought of btw) It was luck or fate or whatever you want to call it.

I think preparing in whichever way a woman feels suits her best should be absolutely encouraged and facilitated BUT at the end of the day, some things just can;t be helped and in those circumstances no amount of yoga exercises are going to help.

I say this as someone who had no interventions during labour and with DD1 just had 2 paracetamol - I consider myself very, very lucky.

I think its all luck. My birth plan was go to hospital, have baby, come home. I had a 2 hour labour no pain relief, no gas and air, nothing. I didn't even know I was in labour until the docs told me I was 5 cm. The thing with that was my DS plan was to turn up at 29 weeks. So it took 8 weeks before he came home. No amount of preparation would have got past that, I had a placental abruption and a haemorrage. I didn't plan any of that!

From my antenatal class, it was also luck. There were 3 c sections. 2 of which planned natural births. One of which DD had the cord round her neck and so would have died if there hadn't been an intervention. No amount of planning could have prevented that. The one which was planned as a c section was planned that way because her DD was breach. Again luck.

One of the group ended up in the MWLU. She planned to be in the usual delivery unit but it was closed as it was full. She wanted an epidural, but couldn't have one in the midwife unit. So her planning was also out the window, again that was luck as she just happened to be giving birth on one of the many ocassions the local hosiptal was full, and not really have time to go elsewhere.

is anyone really going to suggest that luck wasn't the main factor with all of these?

In some ways, I think that 'being prepared' is as much of a distraction exercise during pregnancy than anything. It makes you FEEL as if you will be in control so it is a placebo. I was scared stiff of childbirth... almost to the point of phobia, as ironically I always thought I would die in childbirth. That is one reason why I was so obsessive about hypno stuff and yoga and this and that. It DID help in that I got through my pregnancy in fairly good mental shape. It also did help in that during the critical moments of my DS's birth I did stay calm. (It was all so surreal though, so maybe that was it. )

All I know though is that we both ended up alive and safe and that is all that matters. My DS is just gorgeous and I feel so lucky.

I'm not going to read the whole thread here because this is something that I can still get very upset about (nearly 4 years later).

I think that a natural birth is also a matter of luck. You can prepare yourself and increase your chances of a natural birth, but you always have to have an element of luck too.

I did optimal foetal positioning, hypnobirthing, I was in a midwife lead birthing centre with a strong emphasis on natural birth, DH was fully on board, so I had lots of support. I was mobile and didn't have any intervention to prevent me from moving about or to interupt me from using the hypnobirthing techniques. And I ended up with a horrendous delivery that left me emotionally and physically scarred. :(

So it makes me really angry when women assume that they had a good delivery because they "deserved" one because they did hypnobirthing, or whatever. Not least because everyone deserves a good delivery!

I think some of it is down to luck. Simple things such as whether a community midwife is available for you to labour at home/ there are spaces in the MLU can have a big effect.

Howver, I think that preparation can help how you feel about birth whatever the outcome. If you understand the process then it is easier to be in control and involved in the decisions

Starlight Absolutely agree, preparation can absolutely increase your chances of things going well, but to say things went well because you prepared is a bit deluded.

Such a lot is out of your control, to make sweeping statements about labour going well because you worked hard enough for it is very one sided. She could have done exactly the preparations and things gone very very differently.

I personally believe its irresponsible to suggest to mothers-to-be that if they just prepare enough everything will go fine. It all to often leads to situations where something gores wrong, mum ends up with an awful birth and thinks its all her fault.

My point was that its luck that led Natural to have the belief she has.

God, there's no reason to be sarcastic, I'm glad the study you are apparently quoting from has taken this into account.

This kind of thread though reminds me of my friend who had a emcs under general anaesthetic, who felt not so much relieved that she and her ds were alive and well, but that she had somehow failed.

Maybe 'luck' isn't the right word, but the way childbirth turns out is due to a complex series of circumstances that we mothers have only very little control over.

Schroeder Yes, I had a similar experience with a friend who had aan awful exeperience. She had done all her antenatal classes, been to antenatal meditation etc.

When I saw her about 15 hrs after her DS arrived she was just sat there saying over and over to her husband that she was sorry and she 'just couldn't do it'.

I cried for her and showed her the beautiful baby she had made and she ought to be damn proud of herself coping when everything was against her. I doubt I would have managed so well, but I was lucky and never had to.

Starlight Yes, 'poor maternal effort' pisses me right off, I mean really, wtf??

i wasn't deluded and i meant every word of it - i planned every detail of my labour and it happened the way i planned. you can't complain about that, i'm stating a fact. it happened. maybe i was lucky but form my perspective, as the one who gave birth the way i planned it, being prepared and in control of my own labour was what lead to the outcome i wanted. i was also totally prepared for baby to get stuck or a major pp bleed and a blue light transfer to hospital, but only prepared as much as i recognised that having never given birth before i had no idea if something was going to happen that needed emergency medical intervention.

just because there are many women who don't get the birth they want or plan, doesn't mean those of us who do should feel guilty about it. i often read statements from midwives/doulas etc who say you wouldn't run a marathon without any training so who go into labour without preparing in a similar way?

Definitely luck! I was prepared, mentally psyched, very well-informed and had every intention of having a natural, drug-free home birth. Unfortunately, my son's head did not turn in labour and I did not dilate further than 8cm, so ended up being whisked to hospital for an epidural and, eventually, ventouse. Thank god I have a healthy son and I am still in one piece. But I did everything I could to get that baby out, and still needed medical intervention. It's mainly luck. Luck and positioning of the baby.

Yes, I also hate the idea that somebody has 'failed' or whatever because they have NOT had a good birth experience. I am particularly sensitive about it, because this so-called friend who I have referenced before has implied that because I did not have a natural, drug free birth ('epidurals are dangerous for the baby, I thought you knew that'. and because I combined fed etc ) means that I do not love or care for the baby. I watched One Born Every Minute throughout my pregnancy, and felt so sad for the women who had had cs's and felt they had 'failed'. it made me both sad AND angry.

Mind you, nothing fucks me off more than people saying that you only feel pain because you have not prepared for it. Grrr.

Luck and genetics - it's much easier to have an intervention-free birth if it is fast.

Births that go on for days are exhausting for the mother - it is difficult to cope with that level of pain over many many hours. Two of my three births were drug-free, not really through choice, but because they were just so fast that (a) there was no time to administer the drugs and (b) I can't say I really needed them as by the time the pain became excruciating, it was all over.

My first birth took place over four days and ended up with an epidural, pethidine etc - I was exahusted, as was the baby. Ironically, it was the only birth I really prepared for in terms of OFP, yoga, perineum massage etc.

Downside of very fast births - much more likely to tear. My sister has had three babies, all natural, all in less than one hour (home births) - she tore in all three, as did I.

Natural just because there are many women who don't get the birth they want or plan, doesn't mean those of us who do should feel guilty about it

I couldn't agree more, I had wonderful births and don't feel guilty in the slightest and neither should you. The difference though is you seemed to be suggesting that your birth(s) went well because of your preparations. Whilst I agree that preparing body and mind is very very useful and increases your chances of things going well and allowing you to make informed decisions when faced with options, at the end of the day its luck that ultimately determines what may/may not happen.

Interesting question. I have been amazed by the amount of 'there's no point preparing, nothing ever goes to plan' comments I have had from people whenever I have tried to talk about my birth choices. It can be quite irritating to be honest.

I have heard from several people about their lovely births though so I am hoping that being prepared and knowing as much as I can about the process will help me on the day.

Oh! Just to add, I fully accept that some people really do NOT feel pain, this is true. (envy envy!).

Just I do not like people implying that you only feel pain if you are being a wimp, if you know what I mean.

'Poor maternal effort' FFS. I would have punched someone in the face if they put that in my notes.

Surely ... a difficult birth is as much 'bad luck' as an uncomplicated birth is 'good luck'?

if that makes sense?

natural - I agree with your second post. The fact that you prepared and had a good birth is a fact.

But that's not what you said first time round. First time you said you had a good birth because you prepared.

And that is not a fact. And that is what got people responding.

because you prepared, you increased your chances of having a good birth. An important difference.

I think its pure luck.

I had no intention of having a natural birth. I was so scared of giving birth I was actually praying for breach so I could have a section... and if not I planned on getting every drug available as I was not looking forward to it at all...

what actually happened... baby came so fast, labour was 2 hours, nearly gave birth in car....just made it to the hospital where it was too late for anything...just an amazing midwife who helped me push my baby out.

So actually I ended up with totally natural birth and overall was a good experience...but I can honestly say it had nothing whatsoever to do with preparation or state of mind, etc..

SecondTime Yes, you've explained what I was trying to get at regarding Natural's initial post. Wish I could explain things so succinctly.

well i do feel that my births went well because of my preparations. if i hadn't have done all those preparations i would have gone into hospital terrified of labour and intervention like many other 1st time mums. i also planned what time of day i wanted them to arrive and as much as you may all want to complain about it, i gave birth at the time of day i planned as well. yes, maybe it was luck or coincidence but i gave myself a big pat on the back that my hard work, money and months of planning paid off. i wasn't going to write off 9months of planning and the money i spent on various courses as good luck.