Is wanting a natrual birth unrealistic? Is it all down to luck?

[digggers]

my own experience and the experience of friends really makes me wonder about this. There's no ryhme or reason, it's just so random.

Are people who prepare for and experience the birth they want just lucky? Is childbirth something you can prepare for and influence? Or is an open mind and a thankfulness that in our country we have medical help on hand the best approach? Or should all medical help be viewed with distrust!

Meant to say I had everything I wanted before all went pear shaped: pool, freedom to walk, MWLU, calm, just DH and I etc. Still to no avail. Cue blue light ambulance to surgical unit.

Part of me feels disappointed, I felt guilty until the doc told me there was no way my beautiful DD could have come out under our own steam etc etc. But I also feel good, in my planning and prep I said I would do whatever it took to have her delivered healthy...and I did.

An interesting thread...

My DD was born in Japan. There pain relief is not an option for vaginal deliveries. Epidurals are only available for planned C-sections. Gas & air and pethidine are never available.

I knew this from the start and was mentally prepared for giving birth naturally, although I didn't really know what to expect, as with any first time mum.
I was lucky and DD was born relatively fast, 5 hours from start to finish.
It hurt like hell, but I survived the experience and wouldn't say it was a bad one.
I think the fact that you know what the pain is and the reason for it really helps. You know it will end soon and that there is a baby waiting to come out.

DS was born in Europe so I had the option of pain relief if I wanted it. However, I didn't plan to take any having already experienced natural birth before.
In the end, DS arrived prematurely at home, so pain relief was not available anyway. Again it hurt, but was bearable.

Natural birth is definitely an attainable goal. After all, people pain relief has only been available in the recent history.

To get an idea of how your own birthing experience might be, talk to your own mother.
Daughters tend to be like their mothers in terms of labour length and ease of delivery.

There's certainly no harm in planning and preparing yourself and informing yourself on all the best things to do that might help you have a natural birth.
However, the important thing to remember is that it is all down to luck in the end and you have not failed, or Sold Out To The Man if you end up having an epidural or a c-section.
(I had a sort of birth plan which was along the lines of 'Water birth would be nice, preferably no pethidine or epidural, but if it all starts going horribly wrong do whatever's necessary to get me and baby through it alive'. Was induced, so no water birth due to the monitor, had gas and air, asked for an epidural but was told it was too late, in the very final stages heard the MWs discussing whether they would need to give me a CS so pushed harder - I think the final factor in getting him out was the MW saying, you need a catheter in there (sorry if TMI) and applying one.)

Not entirely sure of daughters being like their mothers. my mother had a terrible time having her first, many stitches I internally and externally. and when having my sister and I also tore badly. Both my sister and I had our babies with no tears atall. My mother has an entirely different frame to us, we take after my father's mother. My mum is 5 ft, we're both 5 ft 8, and much heavier build.

luck. I think all information is helpful though so as much prep beforehand as poss is great - just know that it doesnt always go exactly to plan!

and age!

Purely anecdotal but it does seem to be that my family members who had babies in their early twenties had a much better time of it than my friends (and me!) in mid/late thirties

The reality in parts of Africa is not women giving birth in the fields and carrying on working but 1 in 8 dying in childbirth

Changing the face of childbirth in Sierra Leone

I too have a dodgy pelvis which babies get stuck in. DS 1 was EMCS due to failure to progress. DS 2 was shoulder dystocia / forceps and would not be here if it was not for brilliant midwives. I feel I put him at risk through my desire for a natual birth and wish I had opted for the offered ELCS. With DD I took no risks, had brilliant ELCS which was calm, peaceful and I recovered very quickly.

totally disagree with luck...you make your own luck in this game...

As long as you get a baby who cares! too much emphasis is put on mums giving birth like this that and the other! if you get a baby its successful!

Agree that we just have to play the hand that we're dealt with childbirth.

Agree that we're incredibly lucky that the vast majority of women in the UK can deliver safely.

I do often wonder how and why the active childbirth movement, rooted in feminism and empowering women, somehow gets turned into a stick for women to beat themselves up with.

There in no other context in life when major surgery is considered a 'failure'.

To answer OP, no it's not necessarily unrealistic at all, but keeping your options open and being flexible seems to leave women in a much better psychological state afterwards than having very fixed ideas about how they want things to go.

Luck - in the shape of genetics, size and position of baby, type and length of labour, who's on shift etc - does play a large part.

Most of us are lucky - we do live to tell the tale and take our babies home.

luck,

i od every thing "right"

full term spontaeous labour, no drugs, water birth

i was calm and in control

still ened up with a 4th degree tear and all the shit that goes with that.

anyone that thinks its not luck, is very wrong.

Given my own experiences I would say that whilst luck of the draw does indeed play a part, it's your own frame of mind and those delivering you that can have a MASSIVE bearing on the way you deliver.

DS1 - I went with a 'no intervention or drugs' birth plan that wasn't looked at once. When the midwife told me to jump I squeaked how high simply because I didn't know any better and was terrified!! I was in a medical setting and treated as a patient before anything even went wrong! I let them strap me to a monitor and was left to labour flat on my back - not helpful with SDP & a posterior baby.

DS2 - I was in a birthing centre and when I walked in doubled up in pain the response was 'wow how exciting you're having a baby let's get on with it' - nothing but positive encouragement and reassurance. Another bout of SPD and another pesky (& hefty) posterior baby but this time I was upright, I was encouraged and even when they picked up mec in the waters & a fluctuating heart rate the midwives the response was just to get on with it a bit quicker!!

Someone said to me after I'd had hideous experience with DD1 that babies choose the birth they need to have. Yes, very hippy-ish, I know. However, it was a reminder to me that from the time that process starts, your child is an individual with an agenda of its own. Therefore you do yourself a massive favour by being accepting of whatever's on its way, and to prioritise your venues of choice so that you are nurtured through whatever happens as much as possible. I was at home for all the labour with my 2nd - v proud that I went into spontaneous labour, got in the bath/shower/bed as and when I wanted to (which I could never have done at our local hos - good place, but overrun and frequently understaffed). Went to hos for quick CS when DD2 decided to try and come out face first. No regrets! We chose the CS rather than allow her to get any more stressed, and she's now a happy confident 1 yr old. Having experienced all that, I still know many people who've 'had the birth they wanted' ie were at home for the entire event. Just so happens that their child's agenda was the same as the parents'..

I think there is a very fine line between being prepared and wanting a particular type of birth and expecting a particular type of birth.

I think that women who expect a particular type of birth can end up so wrapped up in their expectations that if things don't go according to plan they start to panic / get upset which can lead to more problems.

For me, the most important thing is to be relaxed and take things as the come - yes, be prepared, understand your options and what is going to happen to your body, but understand that one way or another that baby is coming out and being scared / anxious / fixated on the perfect birth is not going to do you, your baby or your midwife any favours. The rest is down to luck

My birth plan (although never written down) went something like:

Don't offer me drugs other than gas and air - I'll ask for them if I want them and a water birth might be nice, but I'll see how I feel at the time.

I was lucky that it was a perfectly natural labour and I managed to deliver really easily going from 8 hours in labour and only 1.5cm then getting on the gas an air and giving birth 7 hours later with no stitches. However, if it had not been that easy and there had been a need for an epidural or emcs, it wouldn't have bothered me as long as the baby and I were both safe and well. I certainly wouldn't have felt like a failure.

Fascinating thread. I tried to approach my first birth with an open mind but well informed and as prepared for anything as I could be. I was devastated at ending up with an emcs but not because I felt I had failed, it was because I had not wanted to have major surgery and the recovery I had bore that out. I think it's definitely luck that determines how things go on the day/night.

Re genetics, I went overdue as did my mum with DC1 - we're quite similar build but she managed a forceps delivery in 24 hours whereas I had to have an emcs after 36 hours, so I'm not convinced that's an entirely reliable comparison for expectant mums to make.

Of course sometimes it's luck!

The women in my family have a peculiar habit of not being able to labour within guidelines that are acceptable now... my grandmother, mother and I all had waters break and no contractions.

My grandmother did go into labour eventually and gave birth to four children via forceps delivery after extremely long labours that would not be tolerated now as they were risky to her and her babies e.g. all in excess of 50+ hours (one was Monday to Friday!). Sadly, she lost her fifth baby because an infection set in .

My mother's sisters had similar experiences and, sadly, one of my aunts who lost a baby in the womb at 7 months had a terrible experience where they tried to induce her but her body didn't respond and they had to send to the States for special drugs. It took over a fortnight for her to deliver . I cannot even imagine...

My contractions began on my due date so I thought - great! I can use all this birth skills stuff, I must be taking after my dad's side of the family! - but came and went for the next 12 days, sometimes lasting for 4-5 hours with 2-3 minutes between them. My waters eventually went on day 12, I went to the hospital and asked to be let home to see if labour would start, but it never did. I was induced and it took 8-9 hours to begin on the drip. In the end, poor baby got stuck and I had to have a rotational forceps delivery.

But I could have been lucky!

It's just how you are & how your baby is. If a natural birth is what you want & your body is constructed for one & your baby is in the best position then it will be fine.

that's interesting about babies choosing the birth they need - can totally identify with that the way my 2 very different babies arrived.

it's a shame when expectations of the way we 'should' do things turn into a major guilt trip when we simply can't live up to those expectations. it does help when we give birth supported by professionals who are very experienced in acheiving the type of birth we choose - whether that be natural or supported by drugs, and there are plenty of women that can't wait to get into hospital to get all the drugs they can aren't there?

Ok. Medical intervention is generally a good thing in terms of reducing maternal mortality.
That's why the number of women dying in childbirth is lower in countries like the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, most of western Europe than it is in sub-saharan Africa.
In the UK less than 10 women in 100,000 live births die. In Cameroon (for example) it's more than 1000 per 100,000 live births.
Medical intervention is also quite good at reducing maternal injuries related to birth. For example, WHO reckons that about 9000 women a year in Ethiopia alone develop an obstetric fistula - a hole between bladder / bowel and vagina, leading to permanent continuous incontinence. This is vanishingly rare in the UK. (incidentally v good charity here www.fistulafoundation.org which funds repair of these injuries).
So giving birth naturally in the fields doesn't always work very well. Trying to work out exactly when to intervene is very very difficult - and we probably tend to be overcautious in the UK. However, at the end of the day, we have more instrumental deliveries and sections than developing countries - but more live mothers and babies. We don't do it perfectly, but I know what I'd prefer.
To answer the original question - I think luck is far far more important than preparation. Not trying to put anyone off preparing - things can be a lot less traumatic if you understand what's happening and can make choices about it - but luck is always going to play a massive part.
Personally, I think we're all lucky. I'd be dead if I'd had my baby in a developing country so I actually feel quite lucky to have had my massive PPH, ITU admission and 20 unit transfusion. Don't think it happened because I didn't prepare either.

Meant to say we are almost all lucky. Obviously, still some women in the UK who are unlucky enough to have horrific outcomes - but they are comparatively very few and far between.

Fascinating thread.

I'm interested in the guilt thing. Someone earlier said there's no other major surgery that would be considered a failure. Seems to me that nowadays we're expected to by society, and expect to ourselves, to have control over so much in our lives that it can be genuinely devastating when things don't go "as planned".

I had a really lovely "natural" birth with DS, tens, gas and air, water pool. I did feel proud of myself, it was an amazing experience. And I felt really sorry for ante-natal pals whose planned home births had gone tits-up (strep-b for one cord round the neck for the other). I definitely felt glad that I hadn't had their experience, but don't think that my "planning" was any better than theirs. I went on to have a bloody nightmare time with breastfeeding, an experience which can still reduce me to tears when talking about it. And yes I do feel hopelessly, irrationally guilty about my "failure" to breastfeed.

I wonder of we feel more guilty nowadays than our grandmothers or great great grandmothers? Perhaps because we are more educated about what we can do to "prepare"? Or perhaps it's because the main protagonists in the natural vs medical birth, breast vs bottle debates are by definition a bit hormonal and tired? (and in any case I do think these often a false dichotomy, loved the card playing analogy)

Lots of sensible things have been said on this thread- liked the pack of card analogy- also the point that even if you cannot choose the kind of birth you may still be able to influence how you cope with what you get

In my case, there was probably little choice in what actually happened: both my babies were IUGR and slightly early (because of my chronic health problems), with ds I was also quite ill- in the event I had one vaginal and one emc- the caesarian was not to do with my labour but because ds' heartbeat went down very soon after I had gone into labour- so not a lot that I could do about that.

But it still made a massive difference to my experience of the whole procedure that I felt well looked after (nice teaching hospital) and well supported by dh - also that I was prepared for almost anything that could happen and this was by no means the worst I had been imagining. I am sure if I had been stressed and unhappy, things would have hurt a lot more and I would have felt totally different about the section.

i think we are incredibly lucky to have the option of medical intervention, and that luck plays a large part in how the birth goes. however, i do think that women should feel more confident about making decisions, especially if they feel they are being pushed along by hospital protocol.

i was induced at +10 with ds and i was convinced that i was not ready. sure enough, induction took three days and we were in hospital for a total of 9 days due to various complications that set in. when the midwives tried to book me in for an induction with dd at +10, i refused it, again because i was convinced i was not ready. i had a great water birth with dd at +11, no complications.

i'm due to have baby number 3 in a few weeks and am under no illusion that anything could happen, and i'll be grateful to take any medical advice, depending on the circumstances. but i also hope they'll listen to what my body is telling me too.

LUCK. But exactly like my mum and grandmother's deliveries. All 6 births between 1-2 hours. But then again that could be luck too couldn't it.