almost convinced by homebirth article in the Guardian this weekend...

[elportodelgato]

I don't know if anyone else saw this article by Sali Hughes about homebirth on Saturday in the Guardian Family section? probably there is a whole thread about it somewhere but I can't find it...

I've never considered homebirth before but this article has really made me think again. I had a straightforward pregnancy with my DD but she was induced at 41+3 so I was in hospital so they could monitor the induction. Besides, it was my first baby and I would not have wanted to be anywhere except hospital. The whole labour was 7 hours in total and I did without any pain relief (not out of choice btw, would have loved something to take the edge off) until G&A for the pushing stage - I tore and had stitches but otherwise all was normal. It's entirely possible that I will be induced this time around too but if I'm not then I am really considering homebirth - can someone come and tell me if I am being silly and it's my hormones?

I almost cried when I read the bit about her being tucked up in her own bed in nice clean pyjamas with her new baby. It has made me really realise that my hospital experience last time was 'OK' but not amazing - busy London hospital, laboured for the most part behind a curtain in a ward which was not at all private or pleasant and I remember being hugely embarrassed when my waters broke on the floor. In the night following the birth the call button in my cubicle didn't work and no one came to help me. Because of my stitches I needed help to get to the loo etc but no one did this. I'd like to avoid all these downsides if possible and suddenly homebirth looks attractive. Can anyone offer a view?

"I would be FAR to scared about being the person that the unanticipated disaster happens to"

You must have seen things going wrong during emergency c-sections in your work Gasman? Bowels being nicked, bad reactions to anaesthetic, unexpected bleeds, emergency hysterectomies?

But no wobbles about doubling your risk of having an emergency c/s by coming into hospital in the first place?

I think the difficulty arises with this issue when people think that by arguing a pov they are going to convert anyone.

The way I see it, is that there will always be some people who choose hospital rather than home or MLU and vice versa. That's fine. The important thing is for information to be transparent and to be used properly and not distorted.

I have friends who have chosen hospital for various reasons. One actually loved the whole thing of being on a ward, meeting other mums - she's highly sociable and being at home wouldn't have been her cup of tea!

And then there's my colleague who is pg with her first, and has already decided she wants 'hospital and all the drugs they can give me!'

And then there will always be people who know the statistics, but their gut instinct tells them they'll be safer in hospital. Like my friend who insists on driving to Scotland to see her parents every year because she won't fly. You can tell her til you're blue in the face that driving is more risky than flying, but it makes not a jot of difference - she will agree with you! - but it's about her perceptions and feelings.

The thing that people quite rightly object to, is when people use spurious arguments about HBs 'taking up valuable resources' or HBs being about mothers taking risks with their babies lives simply because they want the comfort of their own bed.

Such things are ignorant nonsense and can be really unhelpful to women who want to make informed choices.

The undeniable fact is that for a normal straightforward pregnancy, the safest (and cheapest!) delivery is one without interventions.

I had one. It was great.

Women should also remember that in law until the baby is born they have a right to do what they like and that's very comforting and the correct way the law should be although always gather relevant facts and don't expect birth to be something you can predict. It's sad if people regret the births they have when they've got a live child out of it, something most of us don't take for granted.

Completely agree violethill.

Also in total agreement,violethill. The earlier parts of this thread were mostly about how people felt about home / hospital - their own personal opinions, which are valid and perfectly fine. But it did get to a point where I felt a bit upset at the direction of the discussion, because it did seem somewhat judgy against HBs. I don't know at this point know what my labour is going to end up being like, but I don't want to be made to feel like my informed choice to try for a HB is a foolish and absurd one! I agree it's not for everyone and I wouldn't try to persuade someone to have one if they were against it.

violethill- I was 'converted' to the idea of HB. Not by this thread but by books and support groups. When i first found out Iwas pg with DC1 I was adament that I'd have to have an elective c-section because I have absolutely no tolerance of pain. (I cant even face getting my ear lobes pierced!)But when I became better informed I came to the conclusion that the most pain-free birth would be one at home.

I honestly think that if all low risk mothers were given full impartial information about birth then at least 50% of them would plan a HB.

I agree with you forever - I certainly think if clear, unbiased information were readily available, then more women would plan a HB.

The point above was really that I think there will always be a sector of the population who could have a HB because they;re low risk, but choose hospital, for the reasons I described. Some women genuinely want drugs for childbirth (eg my colleague - first baby, so she has no idea yet of what sort of labour she'll have, or what her pain threshold is, yet she's already decided she wants as many drugs as possible!). And for some women, the perceived sense of safety in a hospital will be an important factor - even if the stats don't bear it out, the fact they feel safer makes them choose hospital.

I think we've reached such a pitch of intervention these days, and it's socially and culturally become the norm for women to medicalise birth, that tbh it would take several generations to change that. Maybe in the future things will come full circle and HBs will be much more the norm, as women reject the idea that normal births need to be medicalised.

Already in developed countries there is huge variation in what is the norm - eg in the U.S. the Csection rate is unbelievably high, in some countries it's totally the norm to have an epidural for childbirth and you'd be seen as really strange for not having one. In other countries, HBs are more common. I don't know where the UK sits in relation to other places - but we have CSection rates that are still alarmingly high, and epidural rates (I believe) of over 50% in first births and about 33% overall. Leaving aside the medical need for some interventions, those seem pretty high figures to me. I can quite honestly see a backlash against all this in the future; maybe several generations down the line.

wow, loads of posts! i chose a HB for my first and only child (so far). i don't like hospitals, the way they smell etc. i've never had to spend long in a hospital and having a baby there just didn't feel right to me. DH and Mum didn't fancy it much, but they supported my decision since the midwifes were positive.

it was quite long, 24 hours in total, but 12 hours of not very much action. midwives told me i might not have more than 2 cans of gas/air, but in the end i got 5, so i didn't 'run out'. i live close to a big hospital so i didn't worry too much about complications.

it was great and i'd choose to do it again, all being well. DD was born around 10pm. she had a quick clean up, i had a bath (ouch), meanwhile midwives cleaned up the mess. and by midnight we were all 3 tucked up in bed fast asleep, not a peep until 8am when the midwives came back and WOKE US UP!. that's the first and only night DD has slept through without waking me

CheerfulYank if you were at home you'd be so much more relaxed, and probably more upright (ie, not lying on your back) so you may not need an epidural.....

You can have drugs at a HB (I had 10mg of diamorphine waiting) just not an epidural.

Violethill well said.

That's a good point, greenmonkies. I did have a fairly quick and easy labor, even with the epidural, so it's possible I could do a homebirth.

But that epidural...bliss. :)

I had first DS in hospital (didn't think of any other option) birth fine but post birth wasn't very nice & utterly exhausted after labour then three days in hospital with no sleep & DH missed out on those first few precious days.
DS no 2 born at home after much persuasion of DH who couldn't understand why I would not want doctors around! Had a fantastically supportive midwife team who are v pro homebirth in my area. Had sweep at 40 + 7 which kicked everything off. Managed the milder contractions at home whilst watching tv for about 8 hrs then the main bit took about 3.5hrs. Was amazing to be in my own home and to be able to spend those precious first moments with no fear of DH being sent home. Could shower in my own clean bathroom and sleep
Is not the choice for everyone but I am very happy with my decision

I had DS in hospital. The birth was fine and I had no complaints about the treatment I received there. Currently 23 weeks pregnant and planning a homebirth this time. For me personally I now KNOW that I can handle the process of birth, that I coped last time etc so I am happy to try for HB. If there were any risk factors in my pregnancy I would go to hospital, but there are none and the midwives in my area of very positive about homebirth.

This thread has really grown!

I have had two hbs and two hospital births (one was a domino).

My first was awful though perfectly normal on paper IYSWIM. My second was fine, I really cant complain apart from having to wait ages to be discharged. Fast forward 15 years to DC 4 (DC3 adopted) and there was no way I could have a hospital birth (unless absolutly no choice).
By then I had developed a dreadful fear of medical situations and the stress caused by hospital visits was enormous.
Unfortunately this was worse by the time I had DC 5 (I really thought it would be better by then).

Both HBs were wonderful and went very well. MW got a bit windy about DC5 due to putting 2 & 2 together and making 5 . This caused me a lot of stress but thank God for the HB website.

My OH is disabled, I have other kids, I have and anxiety disorder, I was low risk therefore HB was perfect for us.

I take it a bit personally when there is talk of selfishness around HBs. I cant see how it is any more or less selfish than choosing a hospital birth.

I was quite interested in the idea of a HB. Then I watched a tv documentary thing on midwives- I think they were in Derby. It covered home and hospital births.

The fetal monitor showed the child was in distress so the 2 midwives (one training) phoned for an ambulance. Over 20 minutes later, and still no sign of the ambulance, the older midwife talked to the senior midwife at the hospital who suggested having the mother lay on her side to ease pressure on the cord. The mother and child were fine in the end and the ambulance eventually turned up but the older midwife had over 10 years of experience and it never occured to her to try moving the mother!!! The woman would have been better off calling a taxi and going to A & E.

The programme terrified me. I think the % of emergency CSs in hospitals is skewed by planned HBs that are brought in when things don't work out and the lack of one on one monitoring in hospitals. If you're going to be badly looked after by midwives you might as well be close to the doctors you'll need to fix the problems they cause.

Hi there

I had 3 hospital births and one home birth, although my reasons are a little different.

none of my hospital births were particularly nice experience, to much intervention, no privacy and little choice.

My reason for home birth is with my last child I moved to a rural location. If I had chosen to go to hospital 3 hours away i would have done so by ambulance, if anything had when wrong the air helicopter for large part would not have got to me. If I stayed at home the air hekicopter would be outside my home in 7 mins, so that was y reason.

My homebirth was wondeerful, durig labour I collected my kids from school, made dinner, got baby things ready, I then lay in my own bath with my magazine while my partenr gave me tea. I then phoned the midwife, however at this point things drastically speeded up and my husband delivered my baby 5 mins before midwife arrived.

30 minutes later I was cuddled up on couch with my other kids and my baby watching a dvd eating pringles.

That night slept in own bed, baby in er bed.

It was wonderful

Narkypuffin what you "think" about hb and cs rates is not correct. There is no evidence that cs rates are high because of failed hb.

Where did you get that idea from? One video of one labour?

Narkypuffin what you "think" about hb and cs rates is not correct. There is no evidence that cs rates are high because of failed hb.

Where did you get that idea from? One video of one labour?

I am 33 weeks and this time last week I was absolutely convinced I wanted a home birth. With my first I was admitted to hospital within an hour of the first contraction due to high blood pressure. Labour was 42 hours altogether and my husband was sent home at 7pm on the first night so I had to spend the night alone on a ward full of strangers. Ended up with a every possible intervention and a very painful forceps delivery. I'm convinced that my panic and anxiety made everything more painful and last longer.

This time I'm sure that being at home, surrounded by by own things and people I'm comfortable with will make things a bit easier.

I brought up the idea of a home birth with the midwife on Friday. Although she kept stressing that she wasn't trying to put me off she made a few points that made me start to reconsider the whole thing.

At a home birth you get two midwives. It's not unusual for one of them to have finished a 12 hour shift before going on call. In hospital yes there are times when a woman labouring under normal conditions doesn't get that much attention because resources are diverted where they are needed. Emergencies are therefore dealt with more efficiently and the staff are more likely to be fresh and fully alert.

She also said that she has seen several cases of an otherwise normal labour and birth where the baby is born and just 'flops' for a no apparent reason. In hospital a paediatrician could be there in 30 seconds - even being 5 minutes from the hospital is no match for this. I know it's not the same in every hospital but my experience of our local one is that no one is kept waiting for a specialist in an emergency situation.

On a more positive note she also said that they have a birthing pool which is not very widely used and would most likely be available if I wanted to use it. They have a book where they keep a record of anyone wanting to use the pool and not being able to and there is not one entry in there.

Also things have become a lot more geared towards 'normal' birth in the hospital since I was last there 4 years ago. Assuming all was well I could spend most of my labour at home, pop into hospital to deliver and be home within a few hours with my new baby and no mess to clean up. If anything went wrong I would need to spend longer in hospital but if that was the case I couldn't have had a homebirth anyway, or wouldn't want to risk it. She said that many women were more traumatised having delivered at home then having to be transferred to hospital.

So having had this conversation I am less in favour of a home birth but actually feeling a bit more positive about going into hospital although hoping my stay will be very brief.

In some areas it will be different depending on hospital resources and how busy they are but I don't feel I would be disadvantaged by going into my local hospital.

Narkypuffin all your post proves is that you watched a video of a HB which resulted in a healthy baby!

Re: 'distress' - this term is widely used and covers a whole range of things from slight drop in heart beat. It doesn't necessarily mean the baby is in dire medical need. My babys heart rate dropped during my first birth- the midwife described this as normal towards the end of a long hard labour.

If the woman in the video had been taken to hospital, who knows what might have happened? She could have ended up with forceps or even a CS - which clearly would be totally unnecessary since she managed a normal Delivery!

There can be a Tendency to believe that whatever intervention you end up with has been necessary and life saving. After all, no one wants to believe that they have allowed medical procedures they didn't medically need. I'm sure if I had been in hospital first time and ended up with epidural and forceps, I would have convinced myself it was necessary for my baby- but the fact I had her in a MLU proves it wasnt

Moonstone, you need to do what is right for you and I really hope you have a wonderful birth, whereever it is.

I am a bit at your midwife though for saying that she wasn't trying to put you off, before promptly feeding you a whole load of reasons not to have a homebirth. It sounds like she not only wanted to put you off, but achieved it too.

FWIW, my midwife was over the moon when I said I wanted a HB, and did everything in her power to make it happen, including when the baby was predicted to be big (she dug out all the research to show no link between size and shoulder distocia, contrary to unhelpful obstetrician who thought I should take his word as gospel) and when I was 10 days late. In the end, we had a wonderful HB (with birth pool), with chocolate and champagne all round at 1am, followed by the midwife tucking us all up in our own bed for the night. Needless to say (ex) DH and I hardly slept a wink as we were too fascinated by the little bundle sleeping on my chest.

Like I said, if you opt for a hospital birth, that's great, but please don't let one rubbish midwife put you off. There are plenty more out there who will be more positive.

moonstone- hospital staff are 'fresh'- are you kidding? Have you not heard of 36 hour shifts?

I am also a bit sceptical about the idea of paediatricians being 30 seconds away!!

It's total myth that everything is there, on hand in hospital. When I had dc2, who needed to be born by CS I was lying on the ward from lunchtime to late afternoon, being told I would shortly be taken to theatre, then subsequently being told there was a 'delay' or they were 'trying to round up the necessary staff'. This happened several times during that afternoon. And this was a situation where that same morning at clinic, the consultant had told me 'This baby needs to be born today' (severe IUGR, poor dopplers, very tiny baby who needed resuscitating on delivery).

In hospital I delivered my DS's head myself when my birth partner ran off to find the midwife who'd gone off on a break and left us alone!

At least in a HB the midwife can be no more then a few feet away.