Smearing and playing at 13.

[GloomyOrion]

Posting because I am at the end of my tether and veer between desperate fear and fury.

Ds has always been a bit odd, but quirkyand coped. He's funny about food but will eat random shit. He's a chewer of many things. We suspect asd and have got a referral pending.

About 8 months ago, he started having issues with excrement. Long story short: he's admitted to playing with it. We find rolled balls mainly in his room. His clothes are often smeared. I try not to shout, but sometimes it's just too much. We were all sick this week. I'm never, ever sick, but I'm assuming his faecal matter is all over the house.

As a side issue if he doesn't want food etc he will hide it in random places, so that we then find rotting food in random places.

Is there a way through this? I feel like I'm living on a hamster wheel. Ds won't talk about any of it.

I went through this with DS2 who has ASD and was extremely anxious at the time. I found the book "What to do about Smearing" by Kate E. Reynolds really useful and it helped me to reframe the behaviour and try different approaches towards it. It made a big difference and within a few weeks things had improved dramatically, and shortly after that it stopped altogether. It also made me feel a lot less alone and recognise that this is a much more common problem than expected.

Have you tried the slid shampoo bars?

If you can afford to I would take him to see a psychiatrist or psychologist privately

is he prone or has had an infection? could it be PANDAS (it's a syndrome)
it's time to push push push for some form of psychological assessment, go back to the gp and ask for a referral.

How long is he alone in the house when you both leave? Is there anyone else there to supervise? I honestly don't think you can continue to leave him regularly when showing these behaviours.

OP you'll know deep down that this is complex, and is going to take a lot of work. Partly because your family, like all families, is a system, and it won't help any of you to frame this as your DS being the problem. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but any psychologist will tell you the same. Be prepared for that.

It sounds as though part of what DS might be struggling with is his lack of power over some of the significant boundaries he has with you and DH. From what you've said, neither of you are there when he leaves for school, for example, or when he first gets home. For some children, those can be very challenging transitional points in their days, when emotional needs (which are at the root of certain behaviours) require relational support. Children's relationship with their own faeces can be symbolic and communicative. Often it is employed as protest, for example. Control is usually an important aspect of rolling, smearing, hiding, etc - it gets a reaction, and although it's not the solution they are aiming at, it's the last resort of trying to tell you something that they don’t know how to express more directly. Or they have tried telling you in other ways, but you haven't heard. And if the child perceives, for whatever reason, that you and/or DH have done things/made decisions/kept secrets yourselves that have significantly impacted him emotionally, he is acting that out in this way. It's typical of us to wonder if some sort of hidden abuse has happened, but that can quite often be a red herring.

As painful and confronting as it is, you might well find you need to reflect and ask yourselves, 'What are our non-negotiables with DS that could potentially have affected his world and his feelings/emotions, and that for our own reasons we haven't wanted to look at?'

It's painful and difficult, but DS is desperately trying to tell you something. I wish you all the very best in figuring out what that is and getting some balance back in the family system. But that will start with you looking at it as a systemic problem.

excellent post @baroqueandblue

He'll grow out of it. He's probably got irregular bowel movements that causes it to compact or gather or something. Shouting at him won't be helpful in any way at all and I doubt that medicalising the psychology of it will be necessary once he understands he's not to do it because it's unclean.

@Mmhmmn the young person in question is 13 years old.

Oh believe me, I know ds isn't 'the' problem. I've worked with teenagers for over 20 years and had thought I'd pretty much seen it all. Thought I knew how to do it and spend a lot of time looking at how our behaviour impacts on the kids. I've been mindful of trying to get it right since birth: reading, family time, family meals, open conversations, listening, giving space, trying to work out underlying causes of behaviour, responding appropriately.

It's tempting to lay a lot of the blame on dh too, as he's good at being a physical provider, but not great at being emotionally there for the kids; in spite of me spending a lot of time trying to teach him. He is really good with animals and small children, but older kids bewilder him- either treats them as v young or mini adults. I have already told him that he should attend any counselling ds has. Ds needs a dad at 13, not just his mum. Equally, ds has never been good at telling us what's wrong. I have often had to find things out from friends' parents. Or find things out in conversation, "Oh, your x has been doing this..." that I knew nothing about.

There's no way either of us can be home any earlier, or leave later. No family, other than us.He's usually alone for half an hour in the morning.

I think its almost certainly caused by stress and ASC. Puberty and transition to secondary school is a really challanging time for autistic teens, particularly when they are undiagnosed so dont have support or therapies in place and are in a large mainstream school environment. Occupational therapy can help with emotional regulation and speech and language assessment helps with communication. His behaviour is comminication.
Push push push for asessments, ask school and GP to help with this. Keep phoning it is a battle. Apply for a EHCP if you havent already. Also consider applying for DLA . If you can afford it consider private help and assessments and try and change jobs/ working hours if at all possible so a parent is there at start and end of day. Reach out to autistic charities and parent support groups who will be able to offer support and practical advice.
It wont be like this for ever. Once he is more regulated these behaviours will stop but he needs diagnosis and access to therapies and quite possibly a different school specialist school enviroment.
Consider adding sensory elements to his room things like a tent, bubble fish tube, lighting, weighted blanket, mini tramploine , scents, fidget toys etc, look up sensory toolkits. Make sure he has time to relax and has periods of absolutely no demands.

There could be lots of reasons for this but all behaviour as a function.
As this is a behaviour that he engaging when no one else is present (so it is not dependent on attention) I would suggest this fits more with the 'need' time behaviour.
It could be a need to take control, or it could be sensory behaviour. The two things may well be linked. I wonder if there are some replacement behaviours that could be found? Play dough, clay, therapy putty, mud instead of faeces. Experiment with different textures and smells. This may or may not work but it is worth a try. You may have to model these replacements - direct your son to use them, have this alternatives out around the house, adults use them too.
I do wonder if he is masking sensory overload in school and then looking for an extreme release when he gets home.
I would suggest a referral to a learning disability nurse but without a diagnosis you probably won't get one. I don't know if private support is an option for you?
Also an OT assessment will give you insight into sensory needs. Again we used a private OT and Educational Psychologist. It was expensive but we were pretty desperate!

This is a cry for help for sure. But you’re going to need some help figuring it out as you know.

If you are sure it’s a true compulsion, he almost can’t help it and it may be prefaced by an obsession (OCD type behaviour). I have seen different but still odd behaviour in young people and in those instances they were taken to child psychiatrists as they are best placed to diagnose and recommend treatment. I also saw 100pc recoveries in the young people I saw.

if you can afford, or get together the money I would take him to a child Psychiatrist privately asap. It will be money well invested. X

Can you pay for a private asd assessment, I'd be trying to do this ASAP,

I would say you (or your DH if he is able to control his anger) need to change your job.
Most parents with DCs that need them do, it's called parenting.

You chose to have a child and you need to be there for him and look after him. He's clearly struggling enormously.

You aren't a single parent who has no choice, one of his parents needs to be there all the time for him. He is not ready to be left in his own.

Agree with pp.

Except, we've worked his whole life and there have been no issues until this year. And if one of us gives up work, then we give up the house and all the nice things ds enjoys, which would not be great for him either.

Please try and get him help privately if you can

But a lot better than smearing.

You need to prioritise - keep the nice house and the holidays that he no doubt wants but have him continue to smear shit over everything.

Or forego the holidays etc and give what he needs.

I disagree, selling the house could really unsettle him further. GP, therapy, the sensory suggestions above sound better to me.

https://autismawarenesscentre.com/it-happens-fecal-smearing-in-individuals-with-asd/ I hope this helps in anyway ! I can’t imagine how your coping x

I agree.

Just saying our work hours mean we can’t supervise him is not a final answer. You need to find a way of changing up your family life to help fix this and I think one of you need to flex your hours by half an hour or find a more flexi job

I can imagine this is very frustrating. The GP didn't need to give you any paper work for the school, he can do it himself. GPs just love to pass stuff like this on. This is a medical need not an educational need so you need to go back to the GP.

You've been given some good advice so far. Whilst waiting for a referral there's a few things you could try. Do you have any rewards based system in place? I used to work with someone who would compulsively rip their clothing. Allowing them 10 mins both morning and evening to shred fabric scraps and paper alongside a reward system, involving favourite foods and games, really helped. Maybe there's something that provides a similar sensory sensation that he could use, playdoh?

I feel your pain OP. My son is 14 and has been doing similar for a while. He hides away and although he does smear, I dread to think what he does with it.
I’ve just been in his room and it stinks. His fingers are dirty under the nail. I don’t know if he just likes the feel of his finger up his bum.

I tried to get a sen referral at school but they’re not interested. GP says we’d need the school on board. DS won’t talk about it, he’s not yet hit puberty, very few friends. He’s quirky.

I really don’t know where do go with it so following with interest