11 yr old DD having intrusive/bad thoughts

[babayjane67]

Hi
My 11 yr old DD has been having bad/intrusive thoughts for the past 2 wks.
We lost my mum almost 6 wks ago &had her funeral last Fri which my dd attended.she had the choice of what she wanted to do&how she wanted to do it.
These bad thoughts started a wk before the funeral.
That her head is telling her to kill herself &everyone else.last wk she was even scared to cut herself some cake because she might use the knife on herself.
Last night she said she wanted me to remove the scissors from her room as she was worried she would use them on herself.
Her heads been telling her she's ugly,obese(she's a bit overweight but definitely not obese).the weight thought seems to have gone now but the ugly ones are still there as are the others.she went into the bathroom this morning &her head told her to use something out the cabinet&kill herself.saying go on do it!
It's been telling her she hates certain people &seems to need to confess to every

negative feeling she has.eg hating someone,confessing things she did or didn't do that were/are wrong.
I've told school who have been very good&suggested her seeing a mentor who she can talk to etc but she only comes out once a month! They said they haven't seen or heard any of this behaviour in school&were very surprised when I told them.She knows she can talk to her teacher&the head who is also the SEN but she told me today she doesn't want to talk to them she doesn't trust them! She really likes her teacher.theyre both male so not sure if this makes a difference to her.
I think it's probably all down to a combination of losing my mum,puberty(she started her periods just after Christmas),starting secondary in Sept&dealing with all these new grown up emotions.
Myself&my partner are doing the best we can to help her.telling her to keep talking to us about it not to keep it in.that alot of these feelings are normal& not to worry about them.to try&distract herself with something else/chase away the bad thought with good,happy thoughts.tell them to go away.
I don't know what else to do! I think she needs more help than we can give her but my partner doesn't agree.he just says to give her more time,that it's just a phase give her longer.
Has anyone had experience of this&can suggest anything else we maybe haven't thought of?
I've had 2 other dds both adults,one with her own kids now&I don't remember either of them being like this.they don't either &are worried about her too.

Another thought
If you go on mind.org, in the top right corner is the menu click on that and go to
Help & support
If you scroll to the bottom of page there’s a section for young people
Quite a lot of info for you and dd to read
Have a look, it may help for her to understand at her feelings etc

Ok will take a look at that thanks!

OP, this was me at the same age. I have now, at 25, finally been diagnosed with OCD I've had all my life. Sooner you can get her help, the better. This is a VERY common form of OCD, it's just not widely spoken about due to stigma and the common perception of OCD as a hand-washing illness. Mine also often 'spikes' - OCD community term - around stressful life events. You can improve this with CBT as well as medication if it's still a problem when she's older. Look up the book Brain Lock, it's written by a leading psychiatrist and offers an OCD management method sufferers can apply along side their professional therapy.

Thanks brighterdays!
Is that book ok for my DDS age group?
I don't really like the thought of her taking medication for it at this age.hopefully CBT if she needs it will be enough.
Did u have the bad thoughts when at school?

Baba
If you’ve got a kindle books you can download for £1.99 or kindle unlimited for £0

Op,
I've logged in and changed my username just to reply to you as you post really struck a chord.

I have suffered with similar myself and I also have more experience than I would choose with CAMHS waiting lists. My 15yo took an overdose in October eventually we got a CAMHS psychologist (who saw her for a follow up appointment) to admit that there was a waiting list of at least a year for actual therapy. My experience is that CAMHS will see you and assess your Dc and check in / assess risk every few months but therapy involves a loooong wait.

I know more about OCD and CBT than I would choose. It really works. you can look up local accredited therapists here:
cbtregisteruk.com/Default.aspx

I am fully aware that financial constraints can be very and real apologise if it offends anyone that I am recommending a costly option. If borrowing the cost of ten sessions CBT (perhaps £500) is an option then it could be life changing for DD to tackle this now.

Best of luck op.

PS I use to know of some good video resources but will have to try to find them

I don't have a Kindle Grenada girl but thanks for the suggestion.
Hamster thanks for yr reply.
I know waiting lists in mental health are very long but a yr for someone to wait for therapy seems terrible!! That is alot of money!! We will have to see what happens with our particular case I suppose.
Thanks for the link.i will take a look.
I hope yr 15 yr old is doing ok now.that must have been horrific for u all!
DDS had a few instances of her head telling her things again today&last night.

You can download the Kindle app on to your phone, I read all my books this way

Oh yes! Will take a look!

Took DD to gp on Mon&he thinks it's more to do with her grieving than OCD but that he wouldn't rule it out.
He's not referred her to CAMHS as they're as he put it criminally under funded.so instead he's suggested self referring to something called Off The Record which deals with all mental health problems in ages 11 to 18.
Unfortunately at the moment they're not taking any new 1:1 counselling on due to the Coronavirus.so we just have to go on as we are til that's all over&we're bk to normal.
She is continuing to have bad thoughts&we are just dealing with it best we can.
Thanks again for all yr help.

Best of luck Op- it must be in incredibly difficult right now, I hope you get all the support you can and need

Thanks Taddda

I have OCD and don't have a single cleaning compulsion! None... I have no germ thoughts so it's not always that.

Obsessive thoughts are horrendous, it took me a while to understand that our brains can lie to us and not everything that we think is true is actually true. And I was 22 when I was at my worst. I don't do many rituals at all (sometimes knock on my door when I lock it and occasionally mess overwhelms me but that's it).

Mine were mostly thinking that I had to leave my partner and that we were going to get a divorce (were not even married) and that he'd die and I'd lose him. I had them at work sometimes and would cry in the loos and have panic attacks - no one noticed a thing.

Watch the TV show Pure - she has a form of OCD called Pure O... no rituals etc but she has exactly the inappropriate sexual thoughts your daughter is having. I've had them too.

Here are some mind tricks that really helped me.

1. The Gremlin-

It's difficult not to think that the thoughts are what you want or true because they're YOU thinking them. So, when one pops in, take the thought and see it as being said by the 'intrusive thought monster' who is sat in the corner of the room. When one pops up, imagine throwing it back at the gremlin and telling it to keep its thoughts to itself.

If that's too scary maybe moderate it to her age.

1. Positive refraction

When a bad thought comes to mind, instantly think of a good thought. So... kill mum now, think 'HUG mum now' straight after.

It sounds silly, but our minds operate by moving through familiar patterns. The more often we have a thought the easier it is for our mind to wander down that thought path. By counteracting the thought with a good one the mind eventually finds it easier to think the good thought path rather than the bad one.

They helped me and might be a good start while you're waiting for help.

Thanks Coriander that's helpful tips!
We are currently on day 5 of the 14 day isolation&I'm bit worried that she mite become worse with these thoughts as she has no school,not seeing her friends etc.shes already confessed 2 guilty thoughts to me already today!
The gp did say to go bk in a week or 2 just so they can see how she's getting on.itll have to be next wk as we can't get out again now til a wk on Tues.
We keep re enforcing that she's beautiful(she's had alot of bad thoughts telling her she's ugly,fat,not worth being around etc) that we love her&that it's only thoughts&to try to replace them with good happy thoughts.
We are still playing games,baking etc but these thoughts are never very far away!

As she got a mobile
She can still chat with friends via WhatsApp
Or FaceTime she’ll probably feel less isolated and still chat girly things with her friends
Do u have a garden, perhaps you could both wrap up and do bit of tidying

I have lots of thoughts(not bad ones, more negative) thoughts telling me I can’t do things, I don’t comfortable (physical follow on) what do people think off me, I’ll then back it up with I don’t even care! But still comes back time and time
I isolate myself too many times , because of thoughts constantly going through my head

It’s horrible and not easy at all to stop or justify, it’s automatic that takes a hold

I’m a. Very lot older than your dd, so I know how scared she must be feeling x

She has got a mobile but not one with internet on.just one she can ring&txt on.
Yes we have a big garden which we are all thinking now the weather's better we will get out in&tidy up.

Hello all,

I hope you're well. I'm just writing in about my little brother who just turned 12.

He is on the autism spectrum and has started developing intrusive thoughts - they vary but currently are mostly around murder and killing people who can't defend themselves. He has moments he's completely distracted and being silly with his little brother and other times gets into a state and is crying and unconsolable. He just told me he doesn't want to go to school anymore because he's worried he might strangle someone.

Unfortunately, I know how OCD works and how debilitating it can be because I have Intrusive thoughts OCD too. I have been diagnosed (around 2 years now) and offered medication but I have refused and I think I am managing well as I have understood a lot about the condition and separated myself from it.

Unfortunately, I think he will not be able to do this as well due to his autism as well.

I keep giving him advice and making him feel better which I know is something we shouldn't do because it feeds the OCD. I feel distraught and hopeless.

When I was dealing with my OCD, I was so upset that I had to suffer in this way but I prayed to God that if someone in my family had to suffer such a horrible disease, I would rather it be me than my siblings.

Now he is showing clear symptoms too, I feel helpless. How can I help him? We are waiting on a GP appointment but honestly, I feel there's no way out. I just want him to be good again.

Just looking for words of advice and support :'(

Hi all!
Just giving bit of an update really.
The thoughts about killing &sex seem to have gone,just the odd sexual comment/thing, but the confessing is still very much there! Everything big or small! Plus she now also last few weeks has been hand washing alot! Slightest little thing like touching her bare leg,or buttock while pulling up her knickers or anything like that.even sometimes touching her leg or whatever over her clothes.sometimes it's just a perceived thing.her head tells her she's got to wash her hands! Doesn't matter how much we say she doesn't need to she will still do it &she does it fir a while each time with lots of lather&in the same sort of way.she has to get under each nail &seems to be counting inside herself.
I've just looked on the Off The Record site&it looks like they're now taking on new 1-1s so I think first thing tomorrow I will have a chat with her&book her in for that.its online at mo which is good.
She's due to start back to school on the 15th&Im due to start bk to work&hand washing several times through the day is something they have to do.i know we all have to hand wash more now due to the virus but that does worry me with her that her hand washing habit is going to get worse as she will be feeding it all the time at school!
I'm going to try&talk to school about it via email.see what happens though they haven't once rang or emailed to see how she/her situation is!
They've been sending work though they don't have to do it.it won't be marked or anything but not actually spoken to her since they were sent home.

Hi babayjane, I know the original post is a few months old but if I may offer some advice based on my own experience, this may not apply to you but it's what I would do if I knew then what I know now. I have a 15 dd who has my problems, ongoing and we have tough couple of years ahead but we are hopeful as we finally got a diagnosis and have a fantastic team of professionals working with her/us.
Firstly I would absolutely not accept your GP not referring her to CAmhs. I faffed around with different counseling in our area, CAmhs were useless, eventually we went to an excellent adolescent psychiatrist after thing had progressively worsened and it was , for us the start of her chance of recovery. We had insurance that partly covered it but it's still very expensive but if I had to I would borrow any amount to go this route. I mean people borrow for things like a car so ... From what I've read, if she was my child, I would get the GP to refer you to a reputable child psychiatrist. I always thought they were just about medication but in our case it was about an indept assessment, choosing the right kind of therapy and the possibility of carefully managed medication. DD is currently having weekly therapy sessions and the psychiatrist sees her every 6 weeks but would see her if needed at any point. The therapist and psychiatrist are in the same clinic and consult weekly on her progress. At one point I realized DD was very ill and that I was no longer going to just let anyone near her in terms of therapy. I wouldn't put any hope in the school counselor except to offer her a safe space hen needed. Our school counselor did not have the understanding or training to understand my dds difficulties in school. Sorry for the long post , again this is just my experience. When our DD finally had access to a dedicated, highly trained and experienced multi disciplinary mental health team we felt there was hope. It just kills me sometimes that all children can't access this.

Thanks for yr post AMBC25
Can I ask if yr dds problems are like my DDS?
I have said to my dp that I'm seriously thinking of going private for her as we've not heard anything form Off The Record yet.they said they'd email us within a wk but that'll be 2 wks on Fri since we filled in the form! I know they're all very busy though& probably have even more if a backlogue now due to the virus.
It does seem to have eased up a little since shes been bk at school.shes taken her own hand gel in to use whenever she has to.she said she's used it couple of times during lessons on top of what they all HAVE to do&it doesn't seem to come up again til she's in the bedtime routine.then it kicks in again&she has to take the hand gel to bed with her to feel secure enough to go to sleep.she had to use it twice last nite before her head would let her settle!
I've got some numbers of local therapists that specialise in her age group&OCD but am holding off ringing them yet due to it seeing to have stopped stopped a bit.
How did u find a local child psychiatrist fir yr dds problems&age in yr area?

The go did say we could take her bk in a couple if wks if things hadn't got any better but then we both had to self isolate fir 2 wks as my dp had symptoms then the school shut&the country went into lockdown so couldn't go bk!
Think we may have to though now.im not sure though as don't wanna label her if it's starting to go away a bit.

I totally understand you don't want to label her although in our case a diagnosis was a great relief both for us and her as she couldn't understand what was happening to her. We got names of good therapists and I'm sure they are great but in our case what I see now is how can they apply the appropriate therapy when they don't know what they are dealing with. We found psychiatrist by Google and ringing around. The private one Vs the CAmhs one was like night and day, again this has been my experience. Find someone who is highly skilled but also passionate about a young person's well being. Her issues were not the same as your DDS but I have a family member who has similar to your DD.
Best of luck and as the lovely parents on this forum told me once - be hopeful . I would be careful about saying she seems ok recently as I personally don't think something like this just goes away , I think tackle it with all the resources and education for yourself that you can find before it wears her down. It's exhausting for anyone especially a young person I would imagine to keep going as normal every day, the pretense and constant struggle is a very heavy burden

Yes it must be very hard for them at times!
Thankyou for that.we will keep an eye on things&see what happens over the weekend when she hasn't got the school routine again.
She's just said she didn't have to use the hand gel at all last nite so that's good!
It's awful that kids this age are getting problems like this!

We had a call from Off The Record on Friday afternoon&had a good chat with her about what's been going on.all 3 of us were included.
They are now going to, hopefully,find the right person to help her&get back to us.so 🤞she will start getting the help she needs very soon!
School say they haven't noticed her using her hand wash/washing her hands any more than she HAS to anyway,though she says she is sometimes more than others.we all know though that Schools do miss an awful lot sometimes &that the kids can be very good at hiding it so that is ongoing.
Hopefully things are going in the right direction now though.
Thankyou to everyone for all yr help!!

DD ended up with at least 27 different behaviours & chants. At the hight of her issues, and she was still at school daily and managed friends and excelled at school. Her CBT meant after 6 sessions we got her back. It was amazing.
I was worried too about labeling but that was my issue not hers. When she felt that that the thoughts told her to kill herself to keep us safe I would have done anything to save her that agony.
We knew there was an issue in Jan 2019 started CBT April and was herself by June. Don’t wait if you can, get her seen and supported.