So it seems I make them miserable and need to go

[iwonderwhat]

Following on from a post nearly three weeks ago, my DS has seemed fine but we are progressing with hopefully getting CAMHS involved [the school is being very supportive even though they see a happy and "normal" child in that setting] and I'm open to the fact that DS and, of course, the family need help. Meanwhile, home life (DH, DS2 and myself) has been fine ... in fact pretty good.

A week after DS2 went to A&E with suicidal thoughts, DS1 (23) sent me a vile email out of the blue basically telling me to stay out of his life and that I make the family miserable. The message happened to arrive at the end of a phone call with school so DH was with me as I read it; I was totally shocked and devastated and couldn't quite understand what I was reading. DH - a man of very few words and not comfortable discussing anyone's emotions - couldn't believe what DS1 had written and simply told me to ignore it and stated it was all "ridiculous". Needless to say, I've been very upset by it but have respected DS1's wishes and made no contact for the past 12 days.

After everything being perfectly OK here all day today, I was just chatting with DS2 to see how he has felt this week and this conversation ended with him (somewhat reluctantly) saying that, yes, life probably would be better for the family if I wasn't around.

DH can see I'm upset and knows why but just says "Don't be silly, of course we want you around".

I feel like a total waste of space and I'm clearly worse than useless. I have been "low" before [mainly due to exhaustion and keeping all the balls in the air as DH does very little parenting or running the home etc] but I've never felt as bad as I do now. The writing's on the wall, isn't it, and I do have to leave. I can't just finish it once and for all because my poor 82-year old mother wouldn't be able to cope with my suicide. Please tell me how I do this without wrecking even more lives.

If you moved out you could take ds2 with you. Or your dh could move out.

My father is very disengaged. My mother worked very very hard to keep our family going. In my early 20s I became very very angry towards my mother - I lashed out at her a few times and had a breakdown and it was all centred around trying to get a reaction and trying to get both her and my father to engage. It didn't work. I recovered, moved on and dealt with some of my feelings but a lot of it isn't resolved.

Rightly or wrongly, despite the fact that my father is still entirely disengaged (to the extent that when my DD was born and I invited them both over he said he'd 'give it a skip') a lot of my unresolved anger is towards my mother. I think that's because I feel like he's a lost cause and she should see how much damage he has done with his persistent refusal to act like he gives a shit. It's difficult to explain - I feel like she has the potential to be a wonderful parent and grandparent but that she has essentially chosen my father over me and my sisters - he is a constant burden and we lose out a result. Does that make sense?

My guess is that your son loves you very much but he has so much anger about his father (who sounds like a horrible shitstain of a person) that he is taking it out on you. You can do something about this or you can continue to find excuses about why you can't leave your waste of space DH and lose the meaningful and loving relationships in your life to be left with the pointless one with the person who doesn't care very much about you.

That's up to you.

I think you also need to get it in to your head that no matter what, children love their parents, even when those parents are horribly abusive. I'm not saying you're abusive, my point is that you seem to assume that your DS means what he says and that on the basis of that you should take some sort of drastic action. Come on. You're an adult and you should know by now how children behave, no matter what age they are - they lash out. You should see your DS's horrible words as a symptom of a situation gone very wrong, a situation that you as a parent can and should figure out and fix.

You seem determined to just give up. I wonder if that's what you thought you'd do when you looked into your baby son's eyes when he was born.

I'll add that I love my DH very much but if I felt he was ever damaging my relationship with my two children in any way, he'd be out on his arse so quickly he wouldn't know what hit him, ageing or not. I am not his carer and he doesn't get to treat me whatever way he likes.

I'm baffled by your post saying that you wanted to separate but your DH wouldn't so it didn't happen - are you his prisoner or something?

I think we don’t know the full story here. Your posts could have come out of my own mum’s mouth when she was incredibly verbally abusive; the fact that you have focussed on the keeping of a clean and orderly home rather than spending time with your kids says it all really. What is the REAL story here? We can’t help you until we know.

I would be absolutely fucking furious if my family treated me like that. If I could afford it I would say "OK so you want me to leave? I'll go for six months and see how you get on."

Six months would be long enough for it all to go completely tits up and for them to be regretting it.

Other than that I do think a job would help you - I know you do voluntary work but earning your own money can bring its own rewards.

Sorry, Duchy, but you are completely wrong. I've spent masses of time with the DSs; I'm not the one focussing on the clean and orderly home - I responded to previous questions. Both boys have had loads of my time and attention, playdates and sleepovers, having total (nice) surprises, outings, holidays, tents in the garden, bike rides, board games, baking, crafts, watching TV together etc etc - all the normal stuff that mums (and most dads) do.

DS2 is into am dram so I've done all the rehearsals, chaperoning, props - even writing and directing a play for a group to perform with the rehearsal in my home.

Oh and did I mention 3 1/2 years in and out of hospital with him while he was treated for cancer - difficult times but I made sure DS1 was also well looked after and wasn't neglected or forgotten when so much attention was obviously focused on DS2. Did I say how I had to battle against the doctors and DH to get him diagnosed in the first place and that he was days away from death? We're through all that now but please don't tell me I've not been there for them.

'Even writing and directing a play or them to perform', it sounds like you are over involved in their lives.
Do listen to what some posters are telling you about the dangers of being controlling with your sons.
I think you need to take a long hard look at your relationship with your boys and give them some space.
Will you never work again? It can't be healthy to be so dependent on your family for your own self worth.

Don't be daft, mrsmuddlepies. Who do you think writes the plays? The volunteers are always parents of those involved in am dram.

Sounds like it's your dh that needs to leave - in fact should've done years ago.

With a suicidal teen I certainly don't think you should be going anywhere.

And yes absolutely both your boys are clearly lashing out at you because they're secure with your love. They're not sure about their dad's.

Don't disregard the effect having a suicidal little brother is having on ds1. He must be feeling pretty distraught.

So which is it: I haven't spent enough time with them or I'm over-involved? I wrote the play because someone asked me to give it a go and nobody else stepped forward.

Right, I've just played a fun 40 minutes of ping-pong with DS2 in the garage and now I'm going to make dinner.

There have been some really helpful insights on this thread and I'm grateful to those poster and will take their useful suggestions on board.

Most plays are not written by the mothers and schools would frown upon over involvement by mothers.
It sounds like the OP is far too involved in her sons lives, hence the title of the thread.
It seems dangerous to blame her sons and her husband for both her sons claiming that they would be better without her.
Just read a thread about someone being dismissive of her MIL for not having worked and trying to be over involved in her grown up sons life and there are suggestions in these posts that this will be the case here in a few years.
I'm a teacher and I would advise that these boys be allowed to get on with their lives.
Go on the Stately homes thread to read about the number of posters who dislike the martyrish, over involvement by their mothers and more often by MILS.

mrsm: the play was nothing to do with school and it was a one-off. DS1 as I've said is totally independent but I thought it was normal for parents to show an interest (ie, communicate with) their adult children and be there to support them if they seek advice. When he was at uni, we mostly left it for him to contact us and certainly didn't fuss over him - we just let him get on with it. The post I wrote about doing things with them was referring to their childhood - I obviously don't do crafts, baking or playdates for a 23 year old!

OP, please don't feel the need to defend yourself to posters who are being mean. You are a brilliant Mum. All I can say is that somethimes teens and twenty-somethings go through this particular phase (I did myself), and it is awfully cruel on you. My Mum was a bit controlling, but looking back (and from the way you describe your life), it was FAR outweighed by the amazing fun and everyday things that she did to show her love for me. DS1 will grow up a bit and be mortified that he ever hurt you in this way. I'm not him, but in a vicarious way, I'd like to offer you an apology for his behaviour, which was so similar to mine at his age x

Oh bless you, Telly - your kind words have hit home and lifted my spirits. I hope your relationship with your DM is now happy and healthy.