So it seems I make them miserable and need to go

[iwonderwhat]

Following on from a post nearly three weeks ago, my DS has seemed fine but we are progressing with hopefully getting CAMHS involved [the school is being very supportive even though they see a happy and "normal" child in that setting] and I'm open to the fact that DS and, of course, the family need help. Meanwhile, home life (DH, DS2 and myself) has been fine ... in fact pretty good.

A week after DS2 went to A&E with suicidal thoughts, DS1 (23) sent me a vile email out of the blue basically telling me to stay out of his life and that I make the family miserable. The message happened to arrive at the end of a phone call with school so DH was with me as I read it; I was totally shocked and devastated and couldn't quite understand what I was reading. DH - a man of very few words and not comfortable discussing anyone's emotions - couldn't believe what DS1 had written and simply told me to ignore it and stated it was all "ridiculous". Needless to say, I've been very upset by it but have respected DS1's wishes and made no contact for the past 12 days.

After everything being perfectly OK here all day today, I was just chatting with DS2 to see how he has felt this week and this conversation ended with him (somewhat reluctantly) saying that, yes, life probably would be better for the family if I wasn't around.

DH can see I'm upset and knows why but just says "Don't be silly, of course we want you around".

I feel like a total waste of space and I'm clearly worse than useless. I have been "low" before [mainly due to exhaustion and keeping all the balls in the air as DH does very little parenting or running the home etc] but I've never felt as bad as I do now. The writing's on the wall, isn't it, and I do have to leave. I can't just finish it once and for all because my poor 82-year old mother wouldn't be able to cope with my suicide. Please tell me how I do this without wrecking even more lives.

What a horrible situation.

The first thing I would say is that a sucidally depressed teenager is not a reliable source of information about what would actually help him.

The email from your eldest is concerning, obviously.

Do you mind saying what it is your sons think you do wrong? I mean do they say they just don’t like you or do they say that you are cruel to them or something?

Could you stay with friends or family temporarily to give everybody a little breathing space/time to reflect? Or could your DS2 stay elsewhere for a time?

It is really horrible and DH is so disengaged; the only thing that is rattling him is that I'm saying I have to leave and that we need to sort out what's going to happen.

No, realistically I've nowhere else to go in the short-term - at least, nowhere I'm prepared to go (eg mother's). I don't think DS2 should go anywhere as he's settled at school and, most of the time, is OK at home. I'm sure DS1 has influenced him.

One line from DS1's email said: You are unreasonable and make us miserable because of how you want to live.

This because I want to live in a clean, orderly home. Nothing excessive - I just like a comfortable environment.

I'm suddenly being accused of being "controlling". I don't think I am but because I have to look after everything (because DH does so little) and because I have decent standards and find it hard to ignore stuff that needs doing, I'm now given that label.

DS1 has been given respect, independence, privilege and trust - clearly too much of all of it.

I can't go back and undo 20 years but I can't stand living knowing what they really think of me.

Your eldest son’s attitude is strange. You can never give too much respect to a child, but I wonder whether he’s trying to control you while you’re clearly vulnerable.

What is your relationship like with him usually? What is his relationship like with his father? Does he live at home? I wonder what he’s trying to achieve. Do you think family therapy would help? Sorry for the onslaught of questions.

Oh you poor thing.

What is your relationship with your husband like and how was it for your DS growing up - he seems to have a fixed idea of women in his head presumably from how his father treated you

DS1 and I have always got on really well and he had a happy, normal childhood that was very straightforward. He certainly became harsher at university but I’ve never been aware of any problem between us.

DH has never been very engaged with any of us – he does love us in his own way but he cannot show it and I’m sure that has a lot to do with his own upbringing.

DH has sometimes put me down in front of our sons and been disrespectful towards me; this has been particularly unhelpful with DS2 and I’ve asked DH many times not to do it but it’s too late now. DH now receives this sort of attitude from our sons and nothing I say makes any difference.

How awful for you op

It's so hard to comment based on a couple of paragraphs but does your DH have your back, does he show you love and respect in front of your sons, does he model love and gratitude? If not, your dc could be taking their cue from him.

In your shoes I think I would be sending a joint response from you AND your DH to your ds1 (it's important he doesn't get to divide and rule) along the lines of "very disappointed by your e-mail, we love you so much and we have done our best to show you respect and trust and when you want to discuss this properly we will be here" or words to that effect. Given of course that you honestly don't think he has cause for complaint (I notice that you didn't say he had been shown love as well as trust, respect and privilege but hopefully that goes without saying?).

As for your ds2, surely it is not in his interests for you to leave if he was seriously depressed only a few weeks ago? Being blunt, I am surprised you are seriously considering it as surely he needs you more than ever?

I know it is hard when you are feeling so low and upset yourself, but can you make an honest assessment of your family dynamic? Can you speak openly to one another, do you have fun together, do you express affection to one another?

If not, would you consider family counselling with a licensed psychologist?

Good luck op. I know what it is like to be cast in the role of "wicked witch" ie the one that sets rules and boundaries when dh comes home after working long hrs to be "the fun one" and it's not much fun. If this is similar to your situation then taking a break away may be valuable ( eg they may respect your role more when nothing is done) but it sounds as though there is something more serious going on and your ds2 needs you at home right now.

Oh dear op, having seen your last post, I think you have a dh problem rather than a dc problem. I'm so sorry

DS1 (and DS 2 of course) is and always has been loved very much – there is no question that. I also know that I am needed here - if not wanted - which is part of the reason I cannot go in the short term.

Yes there is a problem with this marriage and I have tried many times to talk things through and improve it. A few years ago we had some family therapy – again in relation to DS2 – and the message was that I am doing the right things but need support from DH. The other thing that came up was that DS2 needs his dad to take notice of him and get involved.

I am not perfect by any means but I do try my best, put others first and try to fix things. I just feel like a failure right now.

I have thought about writing a response but fear it would only make things worse at this stage. DH has expressed his disappointment in DS1 to me but I doubt will take the initiative to write to him himself.

I fear you are right in saying that the problem is mainly to do with DH but I’ve probably left it too late to make any difference now. I also feel a duty to care for DH who is ageing rapidly.

I wonder whether the anger then is towards him but directed at you as a target who can take it.

I dont think you have actually I think perhaps making a stand could still make a difference - particular for DS2 who at the moment sees his dad not take notice and you condone it

Sounds to me as though both your boys are lashing out at the one person they know won't turn their back on them, quite possibly because they're angry at the lack of attention/involvement by their dad. Very unfair and incredibly hurtful for you but I honestly don't think you're the problem here OP

’One line from DS1's email said: You are unreasonable and make us miserable because of how you want to live.
This because I want to live in a clean, orderly home. Nothing excessive - I just like a comfortable environment.’

My DP would have said exactly the same as you but when times were difficult it was like constantly walking on egg shells. The washing up was stressful, anything left not in it’s proper place was stressful, a used towel was stressful. We were barely allowed to live our lives.

We’ve come a long way but there’s no denying it was to Go living with someone who wanted the home in a very specifically tidy way.

‘I also feel a duty to care for DH who is ageing rapidly.’

You can care for him in a different house. You can still be friends. An aging mother or father wouldn’t necessarily need you to live with them so why does your DH?

Thank you for your words of support and encouragement. I just feel so battered right now that I don’t quite know what to think. DS1 has told me several times over the last five years that I have been patient and tolerant (particularly with DS2) and put up with a lot so I don’t understand why he is suddenly doing this 360 turnaround; maybe you are right - he’s just lashing out because he thinks I can withstand it.

Plate - how we live is nowhere near as extreme as you describe which does undoubtedly sound stressful.

I suggested living separately a few years ago but DH didn’t want to do that even though the terms I offered were incredibly favourable to him.

I think Swallow and Quartz have hit the nail on the head op - you are not to blame - your dc are trying to change the situation by getting a reaction and they know you are the only parent who will take notice. And perhaps the only one who can improve things for them.

It seems so unfair on you that you have to be the one that shoulders all the burdens and has to "make it all right" but they undoubtedly need you. Would you go to see a licensed psychologist yourself to get some support? Perhaps you might then have the strength to leave and lead a happier life?

Does your dh feel the same duty of care towards you btw?

DH thinks that saying he needs me around and that I should just ignore DS1 should be enough to make me stick around. He doesn't want to engage in family therapy (as proved a few years back when he just gave lip service) and is hoping this will all blow over. He admits that he can't run the home and/or look after DS2 so hopes/anticipates I'll carry on doing what I do ... holding things together.

I will try to get some professional help but thank you for all your comments and suggestions.

When you say you want the home clean and orderly what exactly do you mean?

What are your house rules?

Do they apply to the boys bedrooms?

NOOOOO!!! You are being used as a scapegoat and easy target. Hold your nerve and stand your ground.

This happened to me. so did separate from DH. Both DC living with me. Continue to be moody and miserable but see it's not me doing it to them, they're just learning how to take responsibility for their lives.

If your husband is disengaged and not challenging their behaviour to support you, you become the east target.

🌷🌷🌷

By clean and orderly I mean that the kitchen and bathroom are hygienically clean and that things like defrosting the freezer get done when needed; the house gets hoovered once a week, I keep on top of the laundry/ironing. Paperwork piles up in the kitchen and sorted when I have time; the garden is neat and tidy (DH helps with that). I'm not obsessive but the house is always presentable and looked after. I don't go out to work so I see it as part of my "job" to do these things. DS2 is quite like me but if his room gets messy I don't fret as I know he'll sort it out. DS1 lives separately; he is not keeping the place clean but there's nothing I can do about that.

I've tried to ensure that both boys help out with basic things but it's been hard without DH's support as he does a lot of eye-rolling. For example, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that DS2 cleans his shoes each week (he plays football in them at school so they get in a state) but I'm accused of nagging if I remind him. At times DH has even done the job for DS even though I've expressly asked him not too.

I do things out of the house as well and have spent a huge amount of time helping out with DS2's hobby which I've been happy to do but I sometimes wonder why I bother.

I keep on trying to do the right thing and set a decent example but every now and then I let them know how I feel ... not that it changes anything.

It sounds to me like dh has never really treat you very well and the boys have learnt from him that its ok to treat you like shit.

If it were me Id leave them all to it and get myself somewhere of my own where I could be happy and not trampled down.

I agree with NapQueen. Get out and stop letting them all walk all over you. You are the obvious scapegoat in that they have learnt to blame you from their father.

Life is out there, go out and get some for yourself and engage them on your terms. They need to have some respect for you not make you feel suicidal.

Nap and Terf: part of me wants to do exactly what you say BUT they are my "family" and I fear what will happen to each of us (especially DS2) if I leave and the guilt I would carry for the rest of my life. I guess I've kept hoping that DH would get on board but I know he can't/won't. Also, if I go we need to actually discuss things and agree the best way forward - therein lies the first hurdle.

I'm off out soon for a few hours of voluntary work but I will be respond to new posts later on today. I appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Boys need to break from their mothers in later teens to become independent men. Perhaps DS1 is doing this belatedly maybe due to DF never being there for him. Can you make a life which appears to them not to be dependent on their wellbeing or happiness, so you have interests of your own, perhaps you already have. But DH is giving a poor example of life and marriage , it seems odd that DS1 is so angry despite not being at home. Make a life for yourself perhaps with a view to leaving once DS2 leaves home, seeing you being treated as a servant by DH will influence their views of you.