Does anyone know how this 3p per mile tax on electric cars is going to be calculated in a hybrid car?

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I’m reading about this tax and wondering how on earth they’ll calculate what mileage my hybrid does in electric miles over petrol ones?

This has to be tied to the 15min city/town urban planning concept to try and tether people to their nearest town and deincentivise travelling by car otherwise they would just add a levy to the road tax.

I hate this government with a burning resentment I haven’t felt for any other I’ll admit, but this stuff is far reaching. The article I read said that large motoring manufacturers have said they will have to limit availability of petrol and diesel cars going forward to basically force people to buy electric as otherwise they are going to be fined £12,000 per car they don’t sell under some designated ratio. We are going to be completely stuffed at a time where Europe are relaxing the emissions legislation understanding we’re going too quick and crippling ourselves.

Whether you agree with it or not it’s simple and unlikely to be expensive to implement, particularly from year 3 when the odometer is already read and recoded on the DVLA system at your MOT. The first three years there has been suggestion of free “light touch” odometer reading requirements at or around year 1 and 2. It won’t be cost free to implement, obviously, but the core system to do it already exists and already holds the relevant info.

And who exactly will do the odometer reading in the first three years of a new car, and who will administer penalties for people like me that will refuse to supply a reading?

Even after 3 years at MOT time, cheap devices to alter mileage exists - no MOT tester has the time to dick around reading the ECU to determine actual mileage - they will take whatever is on the odometer and thats it.

Liebour have no fucking clue and plucked this idea out of someoness ass thinking it will work.

It wont. Less holes in a sieve compared to the holes in this PPM nonsense.

They will know easily. It's on the MOT - unless electric cars don't get an MOT I'm not sure on that...

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast

yeah right. We are 'crippling ourselves' as a planet with the total fuck up that is global warming. The UK should be leading the way with electric cars whether you think it's too quick or not.

The Labour government aren't going anywhere near fast enough on this!!!

Your average MNer isn't going to alter the mileage but this does seem ripe for fraud, loads of unscrupulous people will do this.

No MOT on new cars for the first three years.

No details either on how mileages for said cars will be obtained. Also, global warming/climate change is BS - its been happening since the Earth was a thing.

As the dinosaurs....

I think it’ll end up in the too complicated to administer bucket personally. MOTs are administered by the DVSA, and vehicle tax by the DVLA. The mileage is recorded at the MOT, but the fly in the ointment being there’s not actually any legal requirement to have a working odometer in a car (yet), and it’s not an MOT’able item. Vehicle licensing is run by the DVLA, but there’s no legal requirement (yet) to update the mileage when a vehicle changes hands. The DVLA and DVSA are separate organisations with separate systems. I think the Government will just end up increasing EV vehicle tax by a flat amount - based on the average annual mileage in the UK at 3p a mile.

The hare brained solution proposed in the consultation, which involves you declaring the mileage to someone (DVLA?) in advance and then adjusting it after the State has checked your odometer is, rightly, being ridiculed in other developed countries. It’s more akin to a system implemented in a third world country than a developed one!

It may sound simple, but the devil is in the detail.

As PPs have pointed out, what about miles driven in continental Europe. Will they be adjusted for, and if so, how? Or will drivers have to pay 3p per mile for their summer holiday in France? Doesn’t seem fair.

Some plug in hybrids only do 30-40 miles on electric power. So a driver could be paying 1.5p per mile on mostly petrol-driven miles. Doesn’t seem fair.

Why are self-charging hybrids excluded? Our old one did around half its miles on electric power, but we wouldn’t have had to pay. Doesn’t seem fair.

How is the mileage reported in the first 3 years before an MOT is needed? This is likely to be a large number of EVs given that many are leased through employer EV car schemes and only kept for 3 years, rather than being bought outright.

If you over (or under) estimate your mileage during the year, how will that be handled? Do you pay a balancing charge or get a refund so you start all square for the next year? Or does the next year’s charge get adjusted to take it into account? That sounds complicated when an adjustment is needed every year.

And what happens if you sell your car midway through a year - how is that dealt with? Do you get a refund, seeing as you’ve paid for the year upfront, or is it just tough luck, you’ll never see that money again? And if a refund (or indeed an additional charge), who is checking the mileage at the point of handover to the new owner?

Suddenly it’s not sounding quite so simple after all.

I’m sure that pay per mile will come to everyone eventually, but maybe by the use of roadside cameras and automatic monthly billing or something. All those ULEZ cameras around London will need to be used for something once everyone’s car is compliant, after all…

Some plug in hybrids only do 30-40 miles on electric power. So a driver could be paying 1.5p per mile on mostly petrol-driven miles. Doesn’t seem fair.

Quite. I will potentially be paying double the fuel duty.

Why are self-charging hybrids excluded? Our old one did around half its miles on electric power, but we wouldn’t have had to pay. Doesn’t seem fair

Because they are charged up using energy derived from the petrol/diesel that has already had huge amounts of tax paid on it, not cheap grid electricity.

I do agree though, the 1.5p charge on plug-in hybrids appears very unfair given their typically minuscule range.

I’m sure that pay per mile will come to everyone eventually, but maybe by the use of roadside cameras and automatic monthly billing or something. All those ULEZ cameras around London will need to be used for something once everyone’s car is compliant, after all

Most likely from a black box that communicates where you drive and when you drive back to the DVLA, who will charge accordingly. School runs in a city centre could get very expensive.

I hope so

Yes, the pence per mile is as well as the VED. But the duty on petrol is around 54p a litre, so you are already paying about 5p per mile in duty for a petrol car, which will have a higher VED as well going forwards. No new petrol car has a £20 VED . EVs are still much cheaper to run and maintain

The answer to most of the questions on this thread are in the Consultation document that someone helpfully linked to on page 1.

But to answer some of your points, yes you will be charged for miles driven in Europe. The Gov state that it’s a smallish number of drivers and and miles affected so, basically, tough shit. That’s one thing for me and (living only ten minutes away from the ferry terminal) my regular day trips to France but an entirely different proposal if you happen live in Northern Ireland but conduct vast swathes of your personal and working life in the Republic… I predict a backtrack or completely different system for NI once that kicks off.

PHEVs - yes, they consider the fact it’s 50% of the cost, to be proportionate and fair - even though the mileage driven won’t be 50/50 split between electric and fuel.

SCH - already pay fuel duty (which is roughly double the new eVED ppm) so even though it means fuel consumption is lower and Gov loses out on fuel duty, it’s a trade off considered again to be proportionate and fair.

Mileage will be recorded in years one and two (third year done retrospectively at first MOT) by a new requirement to have it officially recorded at (likely) an MOT centre - there will be no charge for this.

Yes estimates will be paid up front but under estimates will require a balance payment at the time of registering actual miles driven. Over estimates will (at the moment) be rolled forward to cover the next period - doesn’t look like there will be a refund.

Yep - if you sell your car, the estimate mileage stays with the car - so also a tough shit scenario. I imagine once people realise this they will be perpetually under estimating mileage each year.

Last point, the document is quite clear in a number of places, public privacy will be respected and there will be no ‘trackers’ or camera monitoring of journeys used to implement the system.

Sounds like they’re going to need a new IT system or upgrade to the current one, which should be good news for people like me and DH who run our own IT company but probably not as no doubt they’ll use Fujitsu…🤣

(who, incidentally, seem to be not only responsible for the PO fuck up but also look to be involved in the new British Gas system that is completely unfit for purpose and is leaving hundreds of people with incorrect billing after being migrated to it. Sorry bit off topic there…)

The answer to most of the questions on this thread are in the Consultation document that someone helpfully linked to on page 1.

Apologies Rachel. I’m stupidly assuming this is one of them discussion forums you hear about where people talk about concerns and stuff.

What?

I’ve just posted what I assumed was a helpful response to the poster who had the questions as I’ve just spent time reading through the document.

Jesus, this place.

No. You’ve written a snipey little post as you well know.

The questions being asked are in the consultation document - look at the link below and provide feedback to the consultation

3p per mile for electric vehicles
1.5p per mile for plug in hybrids - noting that the mixture of fuel/electricity mileage will not be known, and that it’s not practical to attempt to break it down
Non-plug in hybrids that harness their existing energy are explicitly stated as out of scope

An estimate of annual mileage will be submitted by owners as part of the VED process, that will then be reconciled with a confirmed mileage as part of the MoT

Prior to the first MoT it is noted that consideration is required on how annual mileage will be collated - some examples are shown such as using garages/MoT centres to collect them

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-the-introduction-of-electric-vehicle-excise-duty-eved

I’m wondering about people that use their cars and vans for work purposes. Are they adjusting the per mile expenses you can claim back to account for this change? Taxi drivers for example.

My mind is boggled that this has slipped through and people are just thinking they’ll worry about it in a few years time. This is going to cost people that do a lot of mileage a fortune!!!

Ditto @TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers My post is to repeat sharing the document and to highlight consultation feedback

Regarding this having ‘slipped through’ - it hasn’t. It has been announced as a proposal and a consultation initiated
Many questions are already considered in the paper
Other questions won’t have been

So it’s not definitely happening? I’m thinking I need to change my hybrid to a petrol car otherwise, as the car manufacturers are already stating they will be limiting them due to customers likely feeling just like I do right now.

Businesses are referenced in the consultation paper and it has been asked that when giving feedback the responder states in which way they are responding

With regard to business use the HMRC guidelines already cover VED (and highlights the example of taxi drivers)

Vehicle costs can be offset in a tax return in (roughly) two ways

1. as a fixed price mileage allowance - that’s what I do, as I use my own private car.
   That does not cover the full cost of using my car, but I cannot effectively break out actual costs relating to my business use

2. as actual costs - that is what is recommended for taxis and other business use when directly related to business use
   This includes fuel receipts,VED etc and therefore would include this proposed mileage charge

I’m not self employed any more but that would have absolutely knackered me ten years ago. My current part time job will no longer be viable if it goes through as the hours I work on some days for the distance I travel would just cancel themselves out. I guess we’re just going to have to see what happens. By 2028 I might be employed elsewhere anyway. It’s a bloody worry though.