Has anyone moved a very elderly (and slightly confused) relative to be nearer to you?

[Miaou]

It's something I'm discussing with my family atm (though we haven't as yet approached my granny). She is 90 this month and lives in her own home, but needs an increasing amount of care. The only relatives who live near her are my brothers, who both work F/T and have young families. She has fallen a couple of times recently and needed hospital admission. She does get muddled but she is in good health generally. She makes her own meals and does her own washing but has helpers in most days to clean etc for her.

Both my parents and I live about 350 miles away and cannot do much for her becaue of the distance. Her son (my uncle) lives 30 miles from her and so is not able to check up on her on a daily basis. It is falling to my brothers to do more and I don't feel this is either fair or practical.

Dh and live in a decent sized terrace house, with an empty one (in good condition) next door. We would love to have my gran move up here to live next door to us, so that we can take care of her as her needs (inevitably) increase. Dh doesn't work so can help me by taking care of our house/family whilst I look after my gran.

My mum and dad were initially very enthusiastic about the idea, but my uncle isn't keen. He thinks the move will be too stressful for her and would finish her off. He thinks that the help she has coming in is sufficient, can be increased, and by the time she needs constant care (if we get to that stage) then she will probably be too muddled to know what's going on anyway and they can move her into a home without any problems. I think this is naive and simplistic - what if she ends up physically in need of care but mentally is still alert - moving her at this point would be incredibly distressing. From being supportive at first my parents have now backed off from the idea - basically because it means they don't have to make a decision

There are lots more positive reasons as to why moving up to us would be beneficial but I think I've gone on enough for now . It's been cathartic writing it down though. If you have any thoughts on the situation I'd be really grateful for your input.

Thanks for reading.

Would granny definitely get the terraced house next door?

I don't think it is a great idea to uproot old people,kind as your idea is (what a star of a dh!!!)

Well it and the house we are in are owned by the same person. We rent ours and he owns the other one but just has a load of stuff stored in it. He has intimated to us that he would consider selling them both. The value of my gran's house would more than cover the cost of both these houses (would need to buy both so that we were guaranteed a place to live whilst we care for her). We would pay commercial rent for our property to her estate. When she dies, both houses would become the property of the will beneficiary (either my mum, my uncle or both) and they can then decide to keep or sell them. That is our plan atm anyway.

The thing I am worried about moondog, is that as things stand she may have to go into a home anyway. We think it would be preferable to have her with us, cared for by family, than cared for by strangers.

Miaou, have you discussed this with your grandmother? Has she expressed an interest in coming to live with/near you?

I know some elderly people still 'enjoy' (sorry, can't think of the right word) their independence, however small it maybe. Plus, does she have friends etc near her? She might miss them and the familiar set up that she already has.

As for her health, would you be able to speak to her GP or someone to get an idea as to whether a move would affect her?

Yes Miaou,but looking after old people can be crippling-emotionally and physically as I have seen many times.

Sounds like it could be a good plan but be aware, moving can itself cause a lot of confusion in elderly people. So you'd have to get some advice on how to help her cope and how you'd deal with any effects. Also find out what support she'd get from local social services and NHS - if she's already been admitted due to falls, she should have, where possible, a specialist nurse who is a case manager keeping any eye on her and referral to a falls clinic. You may need to adapt the house to avoid falls - nurses/sw specialising in care of the elderly can advise. Worth calling Help the Aged/Age Concern so they can give you an idea of the questions you should ask/the help she should be entitled to.

Also a good idea, if she's able, to arrange for her to be involved in some form of social activity. There are exercise classes for the elderly, for instance. The more you use your body and mind, the more active they stay.

Plus, if she is already confused, worth checking that the doctor has seen her and has checked for urine infections - common cause of confusion in the elderly and easily treated. Unfortunately it's often missed as people assume it's just old age.

Think about how your dh would cope if her needs became greater. What about helping her go to the loo? Or bathing or feeding? How would she feel about accepting intimate personal care from him?

Finally, you have to realise that it is her decision. While she's not at the stage where she's not capable of making a choice, you have to respect her wishes. Maybe she's got friends or activities where she is. Maybe she just wants to stay in her own home as long as possible. You have to respect her right to make her own choices as much as any other adult, how much sense it might make to do things your way.

Anyway, you are clearly a very caring grand-daughter. Good luck!

Mercy, she has been up and visited my parents (who live 20 miles from me) and loves the area. The idea of her being next door is that she can retain her independence for now - we are just seconds away if she needs us, but she has her own space and her own things around her.

She has no friends (they have all died ), one brother who she sees about once a year, no social life, and often tells me how lonely she is and how much she misses me (out of all our family she and I are closest and we have more of a mother/daughter relationship, even though I moved away six years ago). I have no doubt though that the move would be a huge, worrying wrench for her - hence why we don't want to even approach her until we know it is a strong possibility (which means we all have to agree and the house needs to be available!)

She is the most delightful person. I lived at home when my grandfather went senile and my mother looked after him so I do know how things might turn out and I am prepared for that (as is dh).

Does she want to move?

because being uprooted from familier surroundings and friends, and all the4 faces you are used to seeing regularly - well, that's not good for the elderly.

Message withdrawn

x-posts edam - a lot of sensible advice there! Her confusion is things like not knowing what day things are happening - yesterday when I spoke to her she was really upset because her son had not turned up to take her out as promised - it turned out he was coming today and she had got the day wrong! She is also very forgetful. Could these things be simply down to a urine infection?

Re adapting the house - yes we have thought of that - the downstairs can be adapted to accommodate a bedroom and bathroom (with sufficient room for equipment etc).

And yes, absolutely it will be her decision. If she doesn't want to move then that's that, certainly as far as I'm concerned! But what I'm concerned about atm is that as things stand she is not going to get the choice, because my uncle doesn't want her to move away (not that he's prepared to care for her though, or not in the way we are suggesting).

And thank you for the info on caring/support - we are quite lucky that where we live there is a lot of support available - and it's easier to access up here than it is where she lives now, where everything has to be bought or fought for (more time and stress for my parents and brothers).

colditz - she wants to be nearer to me and my parents. But I recognise that's not necessarily the same thing as wanting to move!

I know she has talked in the past about possibly needing to go into a home, but that was 10 years ago when it seemed a long way off.

In the last few years, I have moved away (taking great-grandchildren with me), my parents have moved, and her DIL (my uncle's wife) has died. All the people closest to her.

Miaou, I don't have enough knowledge or expertise to tell whether the things you describe are down to an infection or something else. But it is definitely worth seeing a doctor and mentioning the possibility. Any good GP should be able to help but it's surprising how often these things are missed.

Talk to Age Concern or HTA as I know there are three common causes of confusion - moving (including hospital admission), infections and something else I can't remember, irritatingly.

Worth talking to them/local ss/nurses about adaptations - bathroom and bedroom downstairs are a start but there's lots of other things that can help such as handrails/chairs that are easy to get out of. If she's already had falls, you might want to discuss her getting one of those alarm systems on a necklace. My poor Gran fell and was on the floor all night until the carers came in the morning. Was shipped into hospital and then a care home straightaway with no chance to even pack her stuff let alone choose where she was going. Very sad.

Yes the fall she had at Christmas was scary for her (and us!) - she fell in the drive after delivering a card to her next door neighbour. She has a personal alarm but fell on it, breaking her fingers, and wasn't able to activate it. She also fell across the drive and was terrified that someone would arrive and run over her (it was getting dark). Fortunately my brother popped in to see her about ten minutes after she fell (we think - not long anyway), otherwise she would have had hypothermia to add to her woes.

It's things like this that make me think her current care situation is not adequate - yet can't really be changed as things stand. So difficult!

have to say I'm with moondog on this one. Unless it's absolutely 100% nessecary moving eldery people a long way from their 'home' really can finish them off.

My great, great aunty was like your granny - lived alone, had some help in but generally looked after herself. My great aunty and her immidiate family decided it was in her best interests (because she'd had a fall and was starting to get a little confused) to move her from Bristol to London to be closer to them. She died very shortly afterwards - and even now (4yrs on) my great aunty feels that it was moving her that was the key thing.

That's so sad FA - and obviously is a big concern. I just picture her dying alone after a fall and no-one knowing. Rock and a hard place thing really.

I want to talk to my parents again about the whole situation but I doubt they will change their minds really. Thanks for all your input, it has helped me to get a handle on how I feel about the whole situation anyway.

How much company does she have atm? If she has friends, family and neighbours who 'pop in' to see her on a regualr basis, and if she still has her own social life, she may end up even more lonely unless you can be on call a lot of the time.

She will probably be used to the routine of her carers poping in etc. She will be familier ith the lay out of her own house, and the area around her.

Moving her , at this stage, will probably only make her more confused and then she will be even more dependent on you.

I think you and your dh have been very kind and considerate in thinking about doing this, but it might not be in her best long term interests.

This is where it's hard to strike a balance, mb. She has no friends (they have all died). My two brothers go and see her, probably once a week, or a bit less. My uncle sees her about the same amount. They all come at the weekend which means she doesn't see many people during the week. The carers are lovely and come (I think) three times a week, to take her to the doctor's/hairdressers/shopping etc. (they are private carers, not state ones). My mum and dad go down and visit about once every three months and worry about the cost all the time (they are retired and have a small income). She has a lovely next door neighbour who looks out for her but she is a busy professional woman with a family so has limited time. Familiar with the area - yes, she moved to the town just under twenty years ago - to be nearer to my parents.

The plus side is she would see a lot more of me and my family which I know would please her no end, plus my parents. But the downside is a biggie - it would be taking her away from other people in the family and, as you say, may confuse her more. FA's story is still ringing in my ears .

It's so hard to know what to do for the best. I just want to scoop her up and protect her from everything

Can you arrange for her to have more regular help in the home?

Before my mum was admitted to hospital she had carers that visited her every day. They helped her to het up in the morning, she had meals on wheels, they visited mid afternoon, and again to help her to get to bed (bro and I are both 200+ miles away from her)

does she have a social worker? they can be very helpful in sorting out this sort of thing

I faced a similar situation last year when my elderly mother had a major stroke.
I thought it would be a good idea if she moved in with me (over a hundred miles away).
However after talking it through with her I realised she did not want to uproot herself from the house she had lived in for the past forty years.
I would talk it through with her but my gut feeling would be to leave her in her own home.
I realise you are worried about her falls but risk is a daily part of all our lives.

mb yes, that's certainly the plan just now - we can increase the amount of care she needs, probably up to 24/7 (providing the funds don't run out).

Arctic roll, that seems to be the conclusion of my parents and my uncle. Deep down I think they are probably right. Me, I just see a lonely old lady who is existing not living and I think she might be happier if she had more company and her own family taking care of her rather than paid strangers. But maybe the price for getting to that situation is too high.

If this had all come about three or four years ago it would have been perfect! I think she would have been happy to move (and been moveable, so to speak) then.

Thanks for listening to me witter on. My parents are coming over this afternoon and I am going to talk to them some more about it. From their perspective as things stand it's not ideal for them either.

My mother had this care provided by the council, for free. Please look into this before your granny bankrupts herself!

I would contact social services and ask them what is on offer in your area.

Mt aunt is gettign the same help now.

You are right about them being 'movable' when younger. The thing is very people will actually move then.

Really? I would have thought my granny would be means tested (she is very comfortably off). The carers she has take her out to the shops, help her choose birthday cards etc. Can't see council care running to that.

When she was discharged from hospital she needed help dressing/bathing etc. My brother had asked for her to go to our nearest hospital rather than the city centre one. Because she came from the "wrong" area for that hospital they were unable to provide home care for her (bureaucratic reasons ). She had to pay privately for the care and it was an absolute fortune.

I honeslt don't know if it is means tested. My mum owned her own home, had about £10,000 in the building soc and had a pension that was a little bit (few quid) higher than the state pension. She didn't have to pay. I would deffo ask before you commit yourself to paying privatly. Your gran may well have to pay for the extra bits, being taken out etc. But homecare may well help her with washing/ eating etc. I'll have a google and see what I can find for you.

found this for you on 'HoWhat costs are involved?
Your local council?s social work team are obliged to perform an assessment of your care needs if you request it. If they agree that you need care, they will undertake a financial assessment. Taking your income and savings - but not the value of your home - into account, the financial assessment will establish your eligibility to receive financial assistance from the state. In Scotland there is no financial assessment for people aged 65 and over as the majority of care is provided free of charge.

There are several ways that care can be funded. In many cases local councils and some Primary Care Trusts will pay all or part of the costs of care. In England and Wales people may be required to make a financial contribution to their package of care. The local council will provide the care themselves or purchase from a list of approved agencies.

Alternatively, you or your family may choose to fund your care, without any state assistance. You may choose to use a local homecare agency or possibly employ someone yourself. If you employ your own careworker you should be aware of your potential obligations as an employer.

A small but growing number of people take up the option of using the Direct Payments Scheme, where it is available. Here, the state gives you a cash entitlement and you then take responsibility for organising your own care.

You may also wish to enhance the range of services subsidised by your local council by purchasing extra help from an independent homecare agency.

VAT is not usually charged on homecare services. However, it is important to know whether any fees quoted by providers include VAT or not.

mecare'