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Yet another advice request. R129, Plus test, and long term value.

62 replies

axdr · 09/09/2024 13:49

After spending about 12h researching about car seats, I'm getting slightly close to a decision. Quite a frustrating endeavour tbh.

I've seen some good advice from some users here, so I'd like to ask as well.

Key points:

  • Rear facing for longest
  • Ideally Plus tested
  • Looking at long term value. I couldn't find any checking the prior boxes and from 0-12y. I've seen the most I can get is 0-7y.
  • A nice extra was swivel, but I've given that up due to prior points.
  • Car will be a Nissan Leaf 2013-2016, not purchased yet. Has ISOFIX.

After taking the Plus test list and searching them one by one to find prices and age ranges, I've closed in to a few options.

  • Joie i-Prodigi. Seems to be a clear winner, no cons but pricier. £450 RRP, and 0 - 7y.
  • Britax MaxSafe Pro / Safe-Way M. Can't find the differences between them, any help appreciated here. Easy to find for £220 so it's great price. Problem is that they're sold from 3m-7y. So unsure if it's really a terrible idea to use for those first 3 months. Obv not worth to buy another seat for that short period.
  • I've also seen the MiniKid 3, but £380 or so, ouch. And uses belts, not ISOFIX (which feels safer but idk if it is really)
  • And the MiniKid 2, much cheaper at £250 or so, BUT doesn't have R129 which is concerning and I've discarded it due to that. Even when it has the Plus test.

I'd appreciate the help here. All are within budget (might be gifted even) but still I'd prefer the cheapest working option.

OP posts:
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12
Lavender2021 · 09/09/2024 14:08

Are you looking from newborn as I don't think anyone of the one listed are really suitable for a newborn, they says from 0m but getting a good fit would be difficult. The axkid One+ is and expensive but should last many years.
Most people recommend an infant seat then you can see what percentiles baby is on before buying the next stage seat.
Isofix isn't any safer than belt and teathers just easier to use but has a lower weight limit of child + seat.
The besafe B stretch is suitable from birth and would last years.
You can find independent retailers that would help you find the perfect seat and install it. If you look on axkid website or besafe they will have find someone.

axdr · 09/09/2024 14:42

Yeah, exactly. I was looking from new-born.
Well since they said that I assumed they would work from new-born. Though now I'm concerned. :S

I saw the Besafe B stretch but that one doesn't have the Plus test.

OP posts:
supercalifragilistic123 · 09/09/2024 14:48

Most people don't get a car seat that lasts from 0-7 because of how much a child grows between that period.
A seat that is comfortable for a baby is not going to be comfortable for a 5 year old, and definitely not 8 plus.

Once they get to school age most children move over to a high back booster.

axdr · 09/09/2024 14:50

Is that what pram/travel systems include? I still have to research those, but I saw most including a small car seat that mounts on the pram, which we don't particularly want. Since we prefer a safer car seat purposefully chosen.

But if those are indeed new-born ones, it might be useful to bridge the initial gap?

OP posts:
Lavender2021 · 09/09/2024 14:52

supercalifragilistic123 · 09/09/2024 14:48

Most people don't get a car seat that lasts from 0-7 because of how much a child grows between that period.
A seat that is comfortable for a baby is not going to be comfortable for a 5 year old, and definitely not 8 plus.

Once they get to school age most children move over to a high back booster.

You can get seats that last that long but you have to buy a decent one for it to be safe for all ages.
Keeping a child rear facing until they grow out of an extended rear facing car seat is the safest way to travel. I have a school age child still rear facing and will for a few years yet. Then will high back booster seat until 150cm.

axdr · 09/09/2024 14:53

supercalifragilistic123 · 09/09/2024 14:48

Most people don't get a car seat that lasts from 0-7 because of how much a child grows between that period.
A seat that is comfortable for a baby is not going to be comfortable for a 5 year old, and definitely not 8 plus.

Once they get to school age most children move over to a high back booster.

What do you mean they don't? How do they carry the baby then?

I'm just trying to avoid as many seat changes as I can. And keep her rear-facing the longest.

OP posts:
axdr · 09/09/2024 14:55

Lavender2021 · 09/09/2024 14:49

The besafe has been plus tested
https://www.besafe.com/en/safety-tips/about-car-seats/safety-testing-of-besafe-stretch/

Infant seats I don't think get plus tested so you need to look at ADAC testing.
https://www.besafe.com/en/safety-tips/tests-awards/adac/ here is a bit of information about it.

You're right, sorry. I missed it in my list. It's £450 as well, so as expensive as the i-Prodigi and slightly over the Minikid 3.

Why is the stretch B feasible for newborns and not the others though? I think it's defined the same way in their websites.

OP posts:
bumphope2020 · 09/09/2024 14:55

@axdr check out www.facebook.com/share/g/LnYvW98XmS1Me7Cm/?mibextid=K35XfP

If you truly want from newborn your best bet is avionaut sky 2.0 but an infant carrier followed by an ERF is usually recommended

DappledOliveGroves · 09/09/2024 14:55

Car Seat Advice UK is a good Facebook group that can give you further information. I'd second going to some independent retailers that specialise in ERF car seats and seeing what the options are. I understand that the new Axkid One 3 can be used from birth (if you buy it with the Newborn Insert) but then I believe it's around £725 all in. One other point to be aware of is that if you're sure you want to use the Isofix, you'll be restricted to an overall weight limit of 23kg. Isofix is only tested to 23kg. Other ERF seats, using seatbelts/tethers, can go up to 36kg, so if your child ends up being heavier, you may only get limited use out of an ERF seat with a 23kg limit.

I really liked having an infant swivel seat that I used until DD was 16 months - I liked being able to put it onto the pushchair if she was asleep. Also, you tend to get a better fit for small babies with a first stage car seat.

SuperstarDJsherewego · 09/09/2024 14:57

I think the only one from newborn to extended rear facing is the AxKid One. I have 2 of the Max Way seats, on plus and one older. They are from 18 months to 6/7 and are belted and tethered. Isofix has a limit on how much weight it can take so lots of the ERF seats are belt/tether. I had a Maxi cost pebble as a baby carrier before switching at 18 months.
The Safe way is I think the newer version of the Max Way. Max Way is great, pain to install first time but get the hang of it! My 2 have used them from age 1.5 - 6 then outgrew the shell height rather than the weight.
There is a very knowledgable poster who may be along soon called Bertie. Good luck, it's a minefield!

Lavender2021 · 09/09/2024 15:06

bumphope2020 · 09/09/2024 14:55

@axdr check out www.facebook.com/share/g/LnYvW98XmS1Me7Cm/?mibextid=K35XfP

If you truly want from newborn your best bet is avionaut sky 2.0 but an infant carrier followed by an ERF is usually recommended

I was going to say about the Avionaut Pixel Pro and they are bring out a spin base.
The Avionaut cosmo is also a good seat.
Besafe have just brought this out
https://www.besafe.com/en/car-seats/baby-seats/go-beyond/
You buy the base, Infant seat then a seat till 22kg also fits the same spin base.

Baby seat with rotation, and the only seat where your baby can safely lay flat whilst driving. Operate the seat with one hand only. Peekaboo sun canop | BeSafe

Scandinavian safety for your child - inside and outside the car. We develop products intended to protect the most valuable we have - our children.

https://www.besafe.com/en/car-seats/baby-seats/go-beyond

axdr · 09/09/2024 15:42

So, is the rule of thumb for best value then to buy an infant seat first and then the toddler one ERF till 7yo?

Is it really necessary spending another 200-400 for just those first months?

Damn it hurts so much. I went from seeing £60 car seats on Amazon and thinking it wasn't that bad, to learning the good ones were all £200+. To know learning than that's not all, but you need 3 of those for different stages. 😂😭

OP posts:
DappledOliveGroves · 09/09/2024 15:57

It's hard to say quite how you should spend on a car seat. I really wanted a swivel seat and something lightweight as I have back issues. We ended up getting the Maxi Cosi Coral 360, with the Family 360 isofix base. I loved the car seat as the insert could be removed and I could carry DD without doing my back in. I also liked that I could mount the car seat to the pushchair chassis.

At around aged 16 months, DD maxed out the Coral. We then got the Maxi Cosi Pearl. This rear-faces until 18kg (can't recall the height limit immediately). It goes with the same isofix base as the Coral and also swivels. What I didn't realise at this point was that DD is probably going to reach 18kg at age 4 or so, at which point I still want her to rear-face, so we're probably going to have to get some kind of Axkid or similar so she can rear-face until 6 or 7.

In an idea world, we probably should have not bothered with the Pearl and gone straight for an Axkid. BUT, I do love the fact it's a 360 degree car seat.

There are certainly ways of doing all of the above far more cheaply and efficiently than we have. Most first stage car seats are broadly similar, safety wise (some are obviously better than others but I think the key differences really come about for second stage seats). So you could get a reasonable infant seat and then invest in something long-term, ERF, from aged 16 months or so.

axdr · 09/09/2024 16:19

DappledOliveGroves · 09/09/2024 15:57

It's hard to say quite how you should spend on a car seat. I really wanted a swivel seat and something lightweight as I have back issues. We ended up getting the Maxi Cosi Coral 360, with the Family 360 isofix base. I loved the car seat as the insert could be removed and I could carry DD without doing my back in. I also liked that I could mount the car seat to the pushchair chassis.

At around aged 16 months, DD maxed out the Coral. We then got the Maxi Cosi Pearl. This rear-faces until 18kg (can't recall the height limit immediately). It goes with the same isofix base as the Coral and also swivels. What I didn't realise at this point was that DD is probably going to reach 18kg at age 4 or so, at which point I still want her to rear-face, so we're probably going to have to get some kind of Axkid or similar so she can rear-face until 6 or 7.

In an idea world, we probably should have not bothered with the Pearl and gone straight for an Axkid. BUT, I do love the fact it's a 360 degree car seat.

There are certainly ways of doing all of the above far more cheaply and efficiently than we have. Most first stage car seats are broadly similar, safety wise (some are obviously better than others but I think the key differences really come about for second stage seats). So you could get a reasonable infant seat and then invest in something long-term, ERF, from aged 16 months or so.

Yeah, I think it's starting to make sense now.

The travel systems with pram usually include the infant seat lasting for a few months, which makes the ERF toddler seat not needing to cover those.

Knowing that, I'm not that restricted with looking for a ERF from 0. It can perfectly be from 3 or 6m, so I have way more to choose from. This way even a swivel one might be feasible for the same price.

OP posts:
DappledOliveGroves · 09/09/2024 16:22

Most first stage seats are up to 13kg or so, so you should get at least a year out of them, if not more.

SuperstarDJsherewego · 09/09/2024 16:34

It also depends on the size of your child. I was caught out as I bought a Pebble and then a Pearl which is rear facing to 18kg when pregnant. Then my son was born on 95th centile.... So I had to buy the max ways as he outgrew the Pearl at 3!

FamilyAreEverything · 09/09/2024 17:09

Hi OP,
So lots to unpick here. Firstly it is a minefield and I certainly wish I knew more when mine were little. Ideally you should need to buy more than three seats: an infant capsule, an ERF seat and a HBB.

Infant capsules in the UK are all subject to the same testing so the only difference is the inserts and support they give, plus some are outgrown early on length. Avoid I-size infant seats which are outgrown at 75cm, which will be quite early with a long baby. I’d also personally avoid Maxi-Cosi as the are very strict about removing inserts at 60cm. The other one to avoid is the Joie I-snug, which has a very tight head support which cannot be removed. Popular seats recommended by car seat specialists are Avionaut Pixel Pro, Avionaut Cosmo and Britax BabySafe Core. None of them need to be fitted with the isofix base. They can be belted in which can improve the position of the seat and prevent head flop which is very dangerous with small babies who have no head control.

ERF seats are available, usually from 60cm upwards but there are some which have models suitable from newborn. These give a great fit, but may not be perfect if you have a very tiny newborn. The majority of ERF seats are fitted using the seat belt and lower tethers which attach to the seat rails of the seat in front. These can look a little daunting to begin with, but your retailer should be able to help you with the installation. For me there’s no benefit of an isofix ERF seat unless you are transferring it regularly between multiple vehicles. That being said, a tethered seat can be fitted really quickly, especially if you purchase a second pair of tethers for the other vehicle.

The Swedish Plus Test is the highest safety test for car seats. Infant carriers do not need to be Swedish Plus Tested. Only rear facing seats can be Swedish Plus Tested as forward facing seats only too much pressure to be exerted on the neck of a child. If you’re looking at ERF, you need to need to worry about R129 or R44.

The BeSafe Stretch B comes with extra inserts to provide a safe fit from
birth. I don’t have any personal experience of the B version as we bought the original version when our son was 4 (I wish it had been around earlier as he outgrew his previous ERF seat on height due to the short shell). He’s almost 7 and just reaching the height limit now. It’s been a great investment, comfortable and easy to fit. The only negative is that it’s space hungry front to back which may be an issue in a Leaf. The tallest shell on the market currently which is also a reasonably compact fit is the Axkid MiniKid 4. The 3 was discontinued some while back and replaced with the 4.

So in summary, I’d probably go with an infant carrier, then ERF seat, then HBB.

axdr · 09/09/2024 19:25

FamilyAreEverything · 09/09/2024 17:09

Hi OP,
So lots to unpick here. Firstly it is a minefield and I certainly wish I knew more when mine were little. Ideally you should need to buy more than three seats: an infant capsule, an ERF seat and a HBB.

Infant capsules in the UK are all subject to the same testing so the only difference is the inserts and support they give, plus some are outgrown early on length. Avoid I-size infant seats which are outgrown at 75cm, which will be quite early with a long baby. I’d also personally avoid Maxi-Cosi as the are very strict about removing inserts at 60cm. The other one to avoid is the Joie I-snug, which has a very tight head support which cannot be removed. Popular seats recommended by car seat specialists are Avionaut Pixel Pro, Avionaut Cosmo and Britax BabySafe Core. None of them need to be fitted with the isofix base. They can be belted in which can improve the position of the seat and prevent head flop which is very dangerous with small babies who have no head control.

ERF seats are available, usually from 60cm upwards but there are some which have models suitable from newborn. These give a great fit, but may not be perfect if you have a very tiny newborn. The majority of ERF seats are fitted using the seat belt and lower tethers which attach to the seat rails of the seat in front. These can look a little daunting to begin with, but your retailer should be able to help you with the installation. For me there’s no benefit of an isofix ERF seat unless you are transferring it regularly between multiple vehicles. That being said, a tethered seat can be fitted really quickly, especially if you purchase a second pair of tethers for the other vehicle.

The Swedish Plus Test is the highest safety test for car seats. Infant carriers do not need to be Swedish Plus Tested. Only rear facing seats can be Swedish Plus Tested as forward facing seats only too much pressure to be exerted on the neck of a child. If you’re looking at ERF, you need to need to worry about R129 or R44.

The BeSafe Stretch B comes with extra inserts to provide a safe fit from
birth. I don’t have any personal experience of the B version as we bought the original version when our son was 4 (I wish it had been around earlier as he outgrew his previous ERF seat on height due to the short shell). He’s almost 7 and just reaching the height limit now. It’s been a great investment, comfortable and easy to fit. The only negative is that it’s space hungry front to back which may be an issue in a Leaf. The tallest shell on the market currently which is also a reasonably compact fit is the Axkid MiniKid 4. The 3 was discontinued some while back and replaced with the 4.

So in summary, I’d probably go with an infant carrier, then ERF seat, then HBB.

Yep, it all is falling into place now.

We will try and get a travel system that includes infant capsule. I won't bother too much with this one. Whichever pram and system we use, we'll take the capsule it comes with.

Then as soon as she grows enough, will transfer to ERF. Will redo my search of ERF, and prob will find a cheaper alternative as long as it has the Plus Test. The MaxSafePro or Safe-Way M are perfectly suitable in price tbh, from 3m onwards. Might go with them if can't find anything cheaper or similar but better.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 09/09/2024 21:32

Besafe Stretch B is plus tested. The Besafe infant insert is also really really great.

You can use the two Britax ones from birth if you get the newborn inserts. Bear in mind that they are both on offer at the moment, and aren't usually that price.

Avionaut Sky might be worth a look?

A 75cm limit for an infant carrier won't matter, if you want to swap to an ERF seat from ~3m (this is realistically 4-6 months - they need to be able to support their own head a bit, sit with support in a reclined position, basically be comfortable in a car seat without an infant insert.

Joie Juva is a perfectly fine infant car seat and costs about £60, if you didn't want to get one with a pram or find an infant insert.

In general you want your car seat to do one job, maybe 2, I've never come across a car seat which does 3+ jobs and does them all well. Two is definitely doable, but the fewer the better.

Newborn up to about 4 months is one job - there is something about the recline angle needed and the snugness of the fit which is difficult to combine with many other things.

Then rear facing, particularly into toddlerhood and beyond is another job.

Forward facing with 5 point harness is another job.

Belt positioning booster is a different job again.

They just all have different needs, and it's physically impossible to optimise for 3-4 of these at once because some of them directly contradict each other. You can sometimes bridge the needs between two close-by settings, e.g. most infant carriers do well for newborns and the baby RF period, though they don't last long enough to ERF. Spin seats are often good for RF and for FF but they don't usually fit newborns very well (sometimes, they can). Seats which turn from a forward facing, 5 point harness into a booster are usually better performing compared to "all stages" seats.

BertieBotts · 09/09/2024 21:59

Actually sorry scratch one point. I thought the Britax ones had newborn inserts because they have an "M" in the name, which is usually the suffix they use when there's a version with and without insert. But there seems to be none available. It is possible that they might release one in future but it doesn't seem to exist for now. Sorry for any confusion.

WetWeasel · 09/09/2024 22:03

I would concentrate on one thats best for newborns, up to about age 18 months and then re think

Iv never found a car seat good enough or suitable for all ages

The one we have at the moment suppose to be 3.5-12 years, he is 6 and nearly outgrown it
I dont think it will last another year

axdr · 10/09/2024 10:02

Thanks all. Everything makes sense now yeah.

I've shifted focus to searching for prams now, and depending if it comes with a capsule, then I'll come back and find the ERF without the constraint of the first few months.

@BertieBotts are those good discounts a regular thing? They really are good discounts. Just to know it and hold my hand if I miss them and wait for the next time.

Thanks for the recommendation on the Joie Juva. Will directly look at that if our pram comes without one.

OP posts:
axdr · 12/09/2024 18:35

Upon further checking after removing the constraint of newborn, I've removed all options that were not ERF (up to 7yo), and this is how it's looking.

ERF ranking

So atm either the Wolmax or MaxSafe Pro or SafeWay M seem to be clear winners.

Is there any reason not to choose these and choose instead any of the more expensive options? @BertieBotts

Still haven't figured out the diff between MaxSafe Pro and Safe-Way M.

Is there any similar priced one that allows for swivel? Can't see how this would work since most are belted really, but just in case.

Many thanks!

OP posts:
axdr · 12/09/2024 18:46

Sorry, update. Wolmax discarded due to having no ASIP.

OP posts:
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