Yet another advice request. R129, Plus test, and long term value.

[axdr]

After spending about 12h researching about car seats, I'm getting slightly close to a decision. Quite a frustrating endeavour tbh.

I've seen some good advice from some users here, so I'd like to ask as well.

Key points:

• Rear facing for longest
• Ideally Plus tested
• Looking at long term value. I couldn't find any checking the prior boxes and from 0-12y. I've seen the most I can get is 0-7y.
• A nice extra was swivel, but I've given that up due to prior points.
• Car will be a Nissan Leaf 2013-2016, not purchased yet. Has ISOFIX.

After taking the Plus test list and searching them one by one to find prices and age ranges, I've closed in to a few options.

• Joie i-Prodigi. Seems to be a clear winner, no cons but pricier. £450 RRP, and 0 - 7y.
• Britax MaxSafe Pro / Safe-Way M. Can't find the differences between them, any help appreciated here. Easy to find for £220 so it's great price. Problem is that they're sold from 3m-7y. So unsure if it's really a terrible idea to use for those first 3 months. Obv not worth to buy another seat for that short period.
• I've also seen the MiniKid 3, but £380 or so, ouch. And uses belts, not ISOFIX (which feels safer but idk if it is really)
• And the MiniKid 2, much cheaper at £250 or so, BUT doesn't have R129 which is concerning and I've discarded it due to that. Even when it has the Plus test.

I'd appreciate the help here. All are within budget (might be gifted even) but still I'd prefer the cheapest working option.

I was planning on using a reversible seat from birth but it simply wasn't suitable for my 6lb 3oz dd whatever the manufacturer says. I personally would be looking at a safe carrier for up to 18 months or there abouts then look at the long term seat options which will be different in a few months as they change, i also strongly recommend trying the large extended rear facing in the car before committing because some do not fit smaller cars

Can I also stress that the most important thing is to install the seat correctly, hundreds of pounds is wasted if not installed properly and if your car doesn't fit it. My dd was in a 60mph crash so I can conclusively say that a properly installed seat does make a huge difference, she was forward facing as were all 2 year olds then, in a graco fixed with a belt behind (no isofix then) and harnessed.

There's no doubt modern seats are better but try not to worry over tiny differences other than the fit

So the Wolmax is the EU version of the Axkid Move. Great compact and budget seat.

MaxSafe Pro has self tightening tethers, additional side impact protection and is available in a range of fabric colours. It also comes with the leg extending spacer.

SafeWay M has manual tethers and the leg spacer (if needed) has to be purchased separately.

Both great seats, but space hungry.

No the Wolmax isn't the EU version - it's just an older version. It was superceded by the Move in I think 2018. (Whatever year it was that the Minikid 2 came out). Technically it should not be sold any more within the EU as sales of R44 seats are supposed to have totally ended at the start of this month. Lack of ASIP is not a huge problem, but is one of the aspects which dates it compared with more modern seats.

The only swivel seat up to 125cm is the Besafe Beyond which is about £700, because you have to buy the base as well. You can get swivel seats for around £200-300 (or Joie 360 Spin is frequently about £150) but only up to 105cm, which is approx 4 years. If you were wanting a newborn-friendly seat to 105cm with swivel, I would recommend the Besafe ones - Besafe izi Twist B is lovely for newborns, and Plus tested. And Recaro used to do a great one if you can find that anywhere called Salia Elite which has a little clip out newborn carry seat. That one is not Swedish plus tested because it can forward face as well.

Someone on another thread recently said that the Britax seat (can't remember which of those two they had) was narrower and more compact than their previous Minikid 2. I haven't seen them all in person to compare so can't really say - I had heard that it was space hungry and the Axkids tend to be the most compact.

Hard to say how often they go on discount because the seats haven't been out that long. Maybe once or twice a year? That's what it used to be for the older Britax seats and tends to be for the Axkids. The next big sale date will be Black Friday. Then you'll have January, Easter, May bank Holiday and July - those are good times to look out for when seats go on discount.

IME, it's usually more expensive to go for a pram in a bundle with loads of things including a car seat. You can sometimes find some good deals, but most of the time they throw in extras like a matching changing bag or footmuff which are £££££££ when you can just use a generic one, branded car seats and bases also bump up the cost. Unless the looks of the pram are very important to you, then it might be worth getting the matching bag.

It's worth getting the official raincover with your pram because they tend to fit better, and sometimes the proper footmuff is worth it, if there are specifically designed fixing points for example, but that isn't always the case.

I think the seats in your list which have features over and above the Britax seats are these:

Compact:
Avionaut Sky
Axkid One (all variants)

Suitable from newborn:
Avionaut Sky
Besafe Stretch B
Joie i-Prodigi
Axkid One+ / One2+

Self-tightening harness/self-adjust headrest:
Axkid Minikid 2, Minikid 4

Ability to change recline without fully reinstalling:
Besafe Stretch/Stretch B
Besafe Beyond
Joie i-Prodigi
Axkid One (all variants)

Isofix fitting:
Joie i-Prodigi
Axkid One (all variants)
Besafe Beyond

Spin:
Besafe Beyond

Honestly, I would probably discount Axkid Minikid 2 and Wolmax anyway because they are only suitable from approx 12 months which doesn't fit your plan of only using the infant carrier for the first 3-6 months.

I don't think the Klippan seats or Movekid offer much extra at UK prices.

You may also wish to discount Avionaut Sky if you're keen for it to last as long as possible because this one is a bit shorter than the others, although it will still last you to a good age to change to high back booster unless you have a very tall child. So is Besafe izi Plus (which is probably unavailable now anyway since it's older).

Avionaut Sky and Joie i-Prodigi also have a bit worse leg room for older children compared to the other models. The Britax seats only have leg room with the spacer block thing - I don't know if this is a problem.

Axkid One2 and One+2 are on offer at the moment so £500/575 depending on whether you want the newborn insert.

So based on your own cost rankings (I've added the £220 to the Beyond cost for the base)

£200 for a Britax seat (excellent safety, ERF, Plus tested, up to date)

• £200 to also get a movable recline and better legroom (Besafe Stretch) OR a more compact fit + newborn suitability (Avionaut Sky)

• £250 to add isofix, a movable recline and suitability from newborn (Joie i-Prodigi)

• £300 to add isofix, movable recline, compact fit, better legroom (Axkid One2) OR movable recline, better legroom, newborn suitability (Besafe Stretch B)

• ~£400 to add isofix, movable recline, good leg room, AND either spin (Besafe Beyond) OR newborn suitability (Axkid One+2)

Sorry to add another thing to consider into the mix. Do you think it's likely you'll have more than one child? If so, it can actually make sense to buy car seats for all the different stages so you can hand them down, rather than needing to buy 2+ sets of each type.

Sorry I did + symbols and they auto changed into bullet points. So pretend each point is a "plus".

Insanely helpful @BertieBotts and everyone else. Thank you so much!

According to Britax FitFinder, the MaxSafe Pro should fit the car we plan to buy (Nissan Leaf Tekna 2013-2016). As long as it fits, I don't care if the seat is bulky really. We don't plan to have it move cars at all.

Considering the little price difference, I'd rather go with an option with the self-tightening tethers, ASIP, and that has R129 as well. So I've discarded Wolmax, SafeWay M, and Minikid 2.

I will take your advice and use the cheap Joie i-Juve for the new-born phase, and it allows up to 12m, so that should cover plenty until ready to jump on the ERF seat.

I no longer see the ISOFIX as a plus since you told me before the ones with ISOFIX actually allow for less height, and add no security. So not willing to pay extra, as we plan to have a single car and prefer to avoid buying a base as well due to extra cost.

Honestly, as long as it fits (not sure how I can be more certain), I feel like the Britax MaxSafe Pro is a clear winner in this case.

Having an extra child has still not been discussed. If there were though, it'd be sooner rather than later, so I think we would still need 2 ERF for the toddler stage as it's pretty long (1-7yo). Would prob just keep the new-born one and do with a single one. Is that what you meant?

Do you think BlackFriday will bring even better discounts though? From £400 to £189 (found it now) is a great discount already. Hard to believe it will drop even more. I'd hate to miss it.

Many thanks once again!!

Car seats may fit your car but it's definitely worth trying before buying. I have an Axkid minkid2 in a corsa and it's tight up front if I give my 4.5year old leg room. It's just about OK if its installed with less leg room which isn't a problem for her.
But my car is really the run around car and we have an estate for longer trips with the Axkid one so passanger room in the corsa isn't a problem.
So it's worth trying with everyone that needs to be in the car before buying.

No it won't get any cheaper than that. I'd buy it now at that price, unless there's a possibility it's a scam site.

What I meant was that the other seats like minikid 4 etc may go on sale for those dates.

Isofix only restricts the height when it's a 105cm limit seat, most Isofix seats are limited to 105cm. The ones I put in my list there are 125cm limit seats which is the same as the Britax, though they do all have lower weight restrictions. It's true there's no added safety from Isofix, it just eliminates the tethers, so reduces the chance of fitting error.

With overlapping seat stages through siblings I was meaning a combo like 0-4y seat plus 1-7y seat plus 7-10y seat. But keeping the newborn stage seat for any future babies is also a good option.

I think you said you're not particularly keen to use it on the pram, but just in case, the Joie juva is the only one of Joie car seats to have a different pushchair adapter, most of them (including i-snug) are compatible with the standard/universal adapters.

That makes sense, but in my case it's a bit tricky as we don't have the car yet, and will def buy online for the savings.

Not sure I can wait till we eventually get the car, then drive to a main retailer that specifically has that model, ask them to mount it for us to check, and then say by we'll buy online. 😅

In any case, our car will be for very short trips (it's an EV and will have a 80mi range at most, so the car itself can't be used for long trips). GP, supermarket, etc. My partner is short, so if it was a real struggle, we could install the seat behind her seat, she being pushed quite to the front and it shouldn't be a big deal I think. Hard to know for sure of course.

Oh and the axkid one/Joie i-prodigi don't need bases. Only the besafe Beyond needs a base.

For £179 that's an extremely good price and it probably doesn't make sense to pay extra for Isofix. Just trying to give all info if that makes sense.

As far as I know it's not even recommended to keep babies under 6m in the car seat as it's not lie-flat. So no, even if it's a bother and she wakes up, we'll prefer to move her into the cot.

Unless there is a similar priced to the Juva £60 that has the generic attachment, even if diff brand?

The deal is here, in case someone else wants to benefit. Doesn't seem a scam site at all. They even have 2 showrooms.

Not at the moment. If you keep an eye out you sometimes find discontinued seats on kiddies Kingdom which happen to have the right adapters.

TBH sometimes we just used to place the car seat inside the normal seat or carrycot on the pram, rather than get the adapters out. Even if you're not leaving them in the seat to sleep, being able to wheel or carry them closer to the cot is helpful.

As someone with 2 children i can tell you seat changes are welcome ...

Those seats get a lot of abuse poonami vomit the whole gamut

You seem dead set on one seat but honestly i think its a mistake
beyonfdmy disbelief any seat can really be suitable from newborn/3m to 10 years... honestly what stare is it going to be in a decade on....

Everyone i know you got a maxi cosi or similar and switched at a year or so in.
We have had two and combined they were about 350

Oh yes, they are fine in terms of they should deliver the seat. I've bought a seat from them in the past. They don't really offer any after sales support. If you were wanting that possibility it might be worth paying the extra £10 to get one from an ERF specialist.

Ok I tell a lie, sorry, this one is compatible and a good brand.

https://www.kiddies-kingdom.com/birth-15m/41800-recaro-avan-i-size-group-0-car-seat-matte-black.html

What kind of online after sales support could I be interested into? Help towards fitting maybe? I feel quite confident, and will check several videos and read instructions to make sure I do it properly, so I don't initially see that I need it.

But you're the experts, so happy to listen to the advice.

Once you get a car and looking at the buying the seat try independent retailer first before going online as they may offer the same deal and will help with aftercare, will install it if local or help over the phone. EFR seats are great but can look confusing to install to start with if you have never done it before.

Yes basically any help with fitting and if you ever need any repairs or spare parts a good retailer will liase with Britax to sort this out for you whereas Kiddies Kingdom can be a bit of a pain with this (apparently, not experienced it myself). If you are planning to use the seat for 6+ years and potentially longer if you have a second child then it might be helpful to have someone to go back to.

There is also a slight ethical consideration in that they tend to buy seats in bulk and then undercut other retailers, which is hard for smaller independent sellers to compete with. Arguably, without the independent specialist ERF retailers, ERF would still be totally unheard of in the UK - as little as 11 years ago, Britax were manufacturing their 11-year-older version of this seat in the UK but not marketing it here because they reckoned British parents didn't want them and couldn't manage tethers. It's only really in the last 2-3 years they've even started selling them with chains like John Lewis.

It's no skin off my nose either way, so I don't particularly mind what you do - I do think big online stores like Kiddies Kingdom have a useful place on the market.

TBH I think if OP doesn't buy now she will probably miss this deal - the other retailers have mostly sold out of their stock of this specific discount.

Thank you all so much for the replies in this thread. Car seat ordered to get the discount: Max-Safe Pro + leg spacer for £192.

Have no car, have no baby. But such a relief! 😂 It's been a tough 2 weeks to unravel this world.

Hi @axdr thanks for this thread and for doing so much research! Granted you won't have used it yet, but does the maxsafe pro seem good? I need to buy a new seat as ours has been eaten by mice 😱😱
Our daughter is 20 months and had been in her brothers old spin seat. But I want to get an ERF for her as we moved her brother FF too early naively not realising the benefits of keeping ERF for longer.

@LeftTheWashingOut Hey! As you said I haven't used it yet, but it looks pretty good, yeah. It's chunky, that's true, and for our small car we might even need to remove the passenger headrest to get some extra space.

But apart from that, it's good.

@BertieBotts Today I tried installing the Recaro Avan and I'm deeply disappointed with this one. :( First of all, the seat belt goes over the kid's legs, forcing you to dismount it every single time (I was planning to leave the car seat in 100% of the time).
And not only that, but despite stretching my seat belt to the max, I don't think this is a safe fit. I cannot get the car seat flat according to the sticker, since the seat is pulling too much. 😭Really frustrated with this. I've posted on Fb and people say I need to get the isofix base instead. I didn't want to spend on it as this is just the transition seat till the 3 months when I can use the Max-safe Pro.

Is there really no other alternative? Isn't it safe to use a small seatbelt extender? How are seatbelts not standard length??? 😩

That is a standard fit for an infant carrier I'm afraid - they all have that same belt path. Unfortunately you can't use a seatbelt extender, as they cause buckle crunch (as well as not being safety tested). Buckle crunch is where the seatbelt buckle rests on a hard plastic bit of the car seat so it could potentially snap in an accident as it's not designed to have force put on it in that direction (think snapping a pencil in half by bending it, vs trying to pull it into two pieces by pulling the end and the pointy bit away from each other).

It does look tight on the seatbelt and a bit slanted but that's due to the angle of your seats - it is sitting flat on the seat cushion. You could contact Recaro and see if they will allow a rolled towel or pool noodle to be placed under the car seat in the crease of the (vehicle) seat, which would even out the angle, though that will use up even more belt so might not fit. I'm not sure an isofix base would actually help much unless you've got the newer kind of "floating" isofix where the isofix connectors are slightly higher up on the back of the seat to be level, instead of right down in the crease, which tends to tilt the base up.

You could try fitting the seat in the front, if you can disable the airbag? You'd still have to fit it each time but you might have more seatbelt to play with there if you slide the front seat backwards.

There is a video here showing another way to fit infant carrier seats when the seatbelt is tight.

I wonder if you would be better off with the Avionaut Sky, even though it has a higher price point.

What's the angle like on the Max Space? If it's more upright than 45 degrees you will be looking at much longer that you'll need to use the infant seat. And removing the passenger seat headrest will mean you can't carry an adult in that seat.

It may be worth trying both of the seats in the middle if the car manual allows this.