Go for a new infant car seat or a Pink Group 1 Car Seat?

[FastAndFuschiaOus]

I told my toddler that they could have a pink car seat when the baby was here. Just in response to a series of questions about where the baby will sit, where will I sit, can I have a pink one etc. I had a quick Google after and saw the CYBEX Solution T i-Fix Plus Car Seat - Peach Pink and thought phew. Toddler will be just 4yo when baby is here.

Well I’m 8 months pregnant now and my toddler is 96cm and 13.5kg. So nowhere near outgrowing the Joie I-spin 360 they’ve been in since they left the hospital and that I was planning to use with baby 2, nor are they going to be 100cm and able to use the pink Cybex one I found.

So I have a series of questions!

Is there a group 1 car seat in pink you’d recommend? I’ve seen the Britax Evolvafix in pink but then I read some threads on here that didn’t rate Britax as a brand. I’ve probably read too many threads on here.

When can my toddler use the Cybex Solution T? I don’t understand the limit, is it when they’re 100cm or 15kg or both?

My toddler is front facing in the Joie I-spin 360. I’ve recently read some threads on here that it is less safe front facing than other models. So should I prioritise purchasing a Group 1 car seat anyway?

I’m leaning towards borrowing an infant car seat for a year or purchasing a cheaper one and hoping my toddler grows out of the Joie before the baby grows out the infant car seat. I really value the spin functionality post partum though and it’s mainly me and the baby that will be out and about on mat leave. I want to make the safest choice. I feel like if I buy a new seat for my toddler it’s got to be pink as she’s super focused on that now and I’m not sure if one that fits her is on the market. She’s already very emotional about baby related things.

As you can see, I’ve read too many reviews, articles, Car Seat UK posts and threads on here and I am confusing myself. As well as worried about upsetting my toddler further amongst all the change. Any clear direction is greatly appreciated.

does the @bertiebotts summoning dance

Sorry I should have added - the reason why I’m very keen on the Cybex Solution T is the reclining head rest functionality. My toddler is one of those that “passes out” once you start driving but she screams rear facing now.

@BertieBotts

No expert but I wouldn’t use a booster until she’s 1 metre tall, my understanding is that that’s the minimum height?

Britax Advansafix comes in pink, is one of the safest rated forward facing harnessed seats and will covert to a booster when she’s tall enough. So that could be worth a look??

Just to confirm the PP above, unfortunately she’s too little for a HBB. Minimum is 15kg and 100cm, but ideally it’s better to get to 18kg.
Sorry, I’ve no advice on a FF harnessed seat, but generally Britax is a good brand to consider.

Hi thanks for taking the time to reply. I know I can’t use the Cybex Solution T car seat, hence the question. Should I get a new infant car seat or another Group 1 that won’t last me longer than the Joie I-spin 360 as a 5 point harness?

Thanks for recommending me the Britax Advansafix, I’ve done some research on it today and the 5 point harness has a strict height limit of 105cm. So same as Joie I-spin 360. Good to hear that it’s one of the safest on the market, I was wary of Britax as I’d read a post about them being unethical with their marketing and messaging.

I think I’m between the Britax Advansafix for £250 or adding the Cybex Cloud T and Base T to the pushchair bundle I’m getting for £400, and then get the Cybex Solution T later for £200. I’m leaning towards the Cybex brands, and some of the reviews I’ve read today said it’s hard to tighten the Britax Advansafix, I definitely find it hard to tighten anyway, let alone post partum, and appreciate the spin function so might be worth the extra money. I’d rather have the Cybex Solution T long term as I’ve read lots of reviews that it’s very comfortable throughout its age range.

Writing it out I think I know what I want to do.

It’s not hard to tighten the advansafix at all. We had one for DS’s toddler seat. Easier than the maxi cosi we had before. But once he got to 1 metre tall and we reckoned he was sensible enough for a booster we put him into his sister’s old Cybex Z Solution (basically the older version of the T) because given both the seats side by side I also prefer the Cybex. The patented headrest is the best! So I think that’s the right choice

Thanks @InTheRainOnATrain , that’s really helpful to have the view from someone who has had both. It’s difficult for me to pull the restraint to the side tight enough, my core is not strong in that direction when I’m pregnant and post partum. Not specifically difficult because of the model, it’s the direction to pull in. I can do it easily when the seat is spun towards me and I pull down, rather than to side. With my first pregnancy I tried a few in Mamas and Papas store. Didn’t go for Cybex as didn’t have money at the time, so went for Joie I-spin 360 and the longevity. Massive pain getting the combined base and seat in and out car when we want to transport stuff or get it cleaned and serviced. Didn’t think about that at the time!

The Evolvafix is newer than the Advansafix which most of the reviews are written about. I have an Advansafix i-Size, which is the one before the current Advansafix model and find it fine. It is easier with the harness than the Joie seat - I don't really like Joie harnesses. I am not sure where you have seen that Britax are not well rated - I would basically class them as the consistently safe bet. If you're ever in doubt, buy the cheapest Britax.

So you could look at that, since they have a pink one, or with your LO being on the smaller side, you could also look at Maxi Cosi Titan (any of the i-size ones) though it's not pink, it is a bit more nicely padded than the Britax, or Silver Cross Balance i-size, those are both good 123 type seats. Silver Cross have a pink, a bit more of a lurid pink than Britax: https://ukbabycentre.com/products/silver-cross-balance-i-size-car-seat-pink

If you liked the Maxi Cosi then you could get their summer cover which is white, and dye it pink - this is usually allowed by the manufacturer. The covers are pricey, though.

I would definitely recommend going and looking at the Maxi Cosi and Britax seats at least, any larger baby items store will almost definitely have both. You could also let DD try them out and they often have a demo seat for testing it on too.

Personally, I would not bother with the Cybex Cloud as a baby seat, because, although it is a normal cost for that model and it IS a nice seat, I think £400 is a crazy amount to spend on a baby seat when you already have one. It is nice to have a carry seat when you have 2x DC though, so if that was something you were wanting, you could look into it. The Cybex ones do last ages so your toddler might be big enough for a HBB by the time baby has outgrown it. However, I would be cautious about the idea of rushing her into a HBB as soon as she hits 15kg and 100cm. There is some good research that it's better to keep them in a 5 point harness until they are as close as possible to 105cm and 18kg, ideally over these (which is not always possible with the limits on our seats). That will be something for you to weigh up when she gets there. On her current centile she's due to reach the minimums (15kg/100cm) somewhere between age 4.5 and 5 years old. But it will take her longer to max out that stage - possibly more like 5.5 or 6. So see how you go, as you might not want to keep her harnessed to that age.

With a four year gap and your eldest being on the smaller side, it is quite likely you will eventually need 2 HBBs so you could save the Cybex Solution idea and get the latest model of that when DD1 starts to think that a pink seat is babyish after all, or you want to move DC2 to the forward facing seat and ditch the spin seat.

I do think in general a forward facing only seat is likely a small increase in safety over a spin seat used forward facing, it's something I had been planning to do, move my almost 3yo from the Joie Spin to the Advansafix which we have - but other things have come up for us and I have decided against the cost of purchasing a new seat for us for now.

Or another option would be to look at rear facing seats for your 4yo e.g. Avionaut Sky would probably work well.

Hey @BertieBotts thank you so much for your comprehensive reply. You’re so good at targeting people’s concerns and writing clearly. I’ve read your posts going years back! I wish there was a way to buy you a coffee or something. I’ll take the time to digest what you’ve written and see the seats in person with my toddler.

Some first thoughts. I think of it the other way, what’s the point in buying a Group 1 that has a height limit of 105cm on the 5 point harness when I already have the Joie I-spin 360 with that limit. I’m also concerned my toddler could get to 105cm, and not be 15kg so I’d need to look at an alternative anyway. I’d really like her to be 18kg before going for the seatbelt, as I’ve read the safety is linked to their weight creating tension in the seatbelt. She is beanpole build like her dad (5ft11 and 60kg). The Cybex seat will last me at least 2 years, maybe 2.5. The Britax Evolvafix, Britax Advansafix and Silver Cross Balance all have 105cm height limit on the 5 point harness. You have to dig in the manuals for that though, not mentioned in the shiny selling page with the weight limit! This is the thread I’d read https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/car_seats_chat/4976094-when-does-seatbelt-become-safer-than-five-point-harness

The Britax stuff was when I was looking into the Cybex Pallas, and there was discussion about Britax doing a scare video about how impact shield seats are very dangerous in certain scenarios that might not have been entirely accurate. Can’t find the exact post, some discussion on these threads.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/car_seats_chat/2184474-what-is-safer-a-5-point-harness-of-a-seat-with-a-shield
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/car_seats_chat/1134543-Cybex-Pallas-not-safe

I’m wary of marketing in car seats, it’s fairly new, they test to different standards and so on, and the regulation is ever changing.

Will go to store with those models in mind! Thank you.

Yes I know what you mean about the height limits being a bit buried. TBH personally, I did let my DS go over the height limit in the Advansafix that we have, because I have the one which is identical to the older, R44 one which had an 18kg limit, but no height limit on the harness. He was 109cm and still under 18kg when I moved him to seatbelt. Whether I would have felt as comfortable going over both 105cm and 18kg, I am not sure, but it didn't come up so I didn't have to worry about it.

If your DD stays on the same centiles I reckon she'll probably be around 17kg by the time she reaches 105cm, which is reasonable to me. Of course she might gain weight/height unevenly (they tend to do this). But your LO will probably be over a year old by the time she gets to this point, so if you wanted to keep her in a 5 point harness as long as she will fit, then you're likely to want both children in a 5-point-harness seat at the same time. You could if you want to look for a longer-lasting infant carrier in order to allow DD1 to use the Joie Spin for as long as possible. As I said before, the Cybex is good for this. However it does become a bit annoying to keep using an infant carrier once they get more wriggly and want to sit more upright from around 9-10 months - if you've previously used the spin from birth then you might not have been through that stage.

Although the limit of seats like the Maxi Cosi Titan or Britax Evolvafix is 105cm like the Joie i-Spin, in your scenario I don't think there is a benefit of opting for a longer-lasting harness in the 123 seat (e.g. Joie Bold). The reason is that the safety rating on those seats is not as good as the safety rating on the 105cm limit seats (the ones I mentioned specifically). Since your DD will already be older by the time she reaches even the minimum limit to move to a seatbelt, there is not sufficient benefit of the extra harness time which outweighs the lower safety rating. For someone with a child who is on higher centiles, the benefit does outweigh this downside.

The only time a seat with a larger limit would be a benefit (IMO) for you would be if you went for something rear-facing, like the Avionaut Sky.

Tension on the seatbelt I am almost certain is a myth - I think this started because when it used to be common to put children into booster seats aged 3, it was not unusual for people to consider doing so before 15kg even. That is not a good idea (because children under 15kg will be on average younger and they are definitely smaller and more vulnerable), and in order to dissuade people from doing this, some kind of myth about "the seatbelt lock won't engage" before 15kg came about. But honestly, this doesn't make sense. The seatbelt lock can be engaged simply by pulling sharply. This is nowhere near 15kg worth of force. And a lot of infant carrier car seats weigh around the 3-4kg mark but can be fitted using a seatbelt, meaning that babies would need to weigh 11-12kg before the seat would even work, and that's not the case because babies normally weigh about 3-4 kilos at birth, a six month old weighs about 7-8kg. 11-12kg is more the weight of an 18+ month old.

There are lots of good reasons not to move children to a booster seat before 15kg (and as close to 18kg or over if possible) but I don't think that seatbelt tension is one of them. If anything, it's actually the other way around - from old crash data where younger children are using seatbelts or booster seats rather than a 5-point harness, it seems that the seatbelt holds them too stiffly which is actually the cause of some of the injuries to children in that age group, and one of the reasons why a car seat is better for them.

I see the point about Britax and the marketing post they did - I do think this was probably a bit of a brand war type thing and I was a bit sceptical about it at the time. I have since learned that they did (kind of) have a point in that impact shields do have risks which aren't present in 5-point harness seats, and particularly the models of impact shield seats which were on the market at the time of that post. However they do have other benefits and overall from the data that we have today, it seems that the benefit/risks cancel each other out. So the difference statistically between (any/all) forward facing 5 point harness and an impact shield is basically none. It is still misleading (IMO) to claim that impact shield seats are dangerous in comparison to a forward facing 5 point harness. However, claims about impact shields being safer than a 5 point harness, which is how they were being marketed at the time by Cybex, Kiddy etc, are also misleading.

It's complicated and basically it's an opinion issue. Different experts in the field have different opinions about which type of restraint is best. It doesn't mean that any expert on either side is wrong or doesn't know about safety. There's no way to eliminate every kind of risk and each of those types have different approaches and different risks they are trying to eliminate. The newer legislation also has changes to the requirements about impact shields so may address some of the issues with them (but honestly, I don't know if it helps or not.)

I’ve read a lot about the Britax Advansafix Pro (£250), Cybex Cloud T (£450 inc base), and Cybex Sirona T I-size (£520 inc base). Based on what @BertieBotts said I’d noticed young babies, must have been under 6 months, in their car seats on pushchairs craning their back upwards in shops. So was pretty sure I’d get either the Britax Advansafix Pro or Sirona T I-size, and I’d wait to see them in the shop with toddler.

Well she burst into tears as soon as I put her in the Britax Advansafix Pro! All the way there she was really excited about getting her pink car seat and the baby can have her old one, but once on the seat she was very upset and said she liked her old small car seat and didn’t want to change. She seemed to fit and it looked comfortable in my opinion. I did find the harness annoying to loosen, though doing it up and tightening it wasn’t too bad. Having watched videos, I was concerned about how easy it would be to adjust the head rest but that wasn’t bad either.

After she calmed down, I put her in the Cybex Sirona T I-size, and that seemed much more comfortable and she enjoyed the snug fit. She loved the sun canopy. She still said she wanted her old car seat and not a new one. As I said in my OP, she’s easily upset at the moment and I don’t know how to sensitively handle it. I’m leaning towards getting the Cybex Sirona T I-size in pink and then we have two rotating 0-4yo 105cm max car seats and she can pick between the two. I wanted the Sirona 4 years ago but couldn’t afford it, and it bypasses the main issue I have with the Joie which is moving it as it’s all one piece. However it’s £520 and I could use that buffer for mat leave! I might just get an infant one. The CYBEX Aton S2 i-Size
is £144 on Natural Baby Shower at the moment.

I’ll probably end up buying the pink Sirona as DH thought it was great too.

I guess lesson learned there is no avoiding toddler melt downs when it comes to big life changes!

I'd go for the britax max safe pro which comes in a beautiful dusky pink, or the avionaut sky in baby pink. I have the sky and it's brilliant, my 2yr old is so comfortable, easy for her to climb in herself now and whinges 1000x less than she did in her infant carrier 😂

Fair enough :D

Just before you drop £500 on the Sirona - have you looked at whether the Sirona Gi i-Size would be just as good? I don't know if it has the same colour, or the canopy, but it's basically the same except for not coming off the base and it's half the price.

Just so you know as well if she stays on her current centile line, she will probably get to 105cm at about age 5y6m so you are looking about 18 months' worth of use for that seat. Which, if she's happier in the old seat, is a lot of money and you might find in 12-18 months' time when you are needing/wanting to move both kids on, she'll be used to being a big sister (it is such a big thing for them adjusting to that) and so won't mind swapping seats then. Plus she'll be big enough for a high back booster.

You could look at Cybex Anoris T as well, which has the canopy and will last up to 115cm instead (about age 7 with her stats) and has the airbag in it for about the same price. It's a pretty impressive seat, but is a different type of restraint so you might want to check if she is happy with it.

The Aton S2 i-size is a good seat for newborn. I had the Aton 5 which was the same generation. The only quirk I found with that generation of Cybex infant seats is that while they are easy to loosen and tighten when the baby is not in the seat, I found it really hard to tighten the straps properly when the baby was in it. Weird. But I just left them at the right tightness and didn't adjust them until they got too hard to fasten, then I'd loosen them a bit and then pull the strap through from the back and tighten that way. Will have a look and see if I can see any other good bargains on infant seats, especially Cybex :)

Cybex baby seats - Looks like the Aton S2 is £109 on amazon, though you might prefer to support an independent retailer. Or Argos have the Aton B2 with base for £200.

Avionaut Cosmo 2 is at carseatsplus for £139 - this is a great newborn seat, lovely position, doesn't strain the baby's back so much. Really light as well. It goes onto the same pram adapters as Cybex.

Sorry I think I got it wrong about the Anoris - it's only the T2 which has the canopy, I think, and this is £640 so quite a bit more than the £520. The Anoris T is £440, but doesn't have the canopy :(

Thanks @BertieBotts , this thread means at least I now know I don’t want the Cybex Cloud T so can get my pushchair bundle ordered without that.

The benefit of the Cybex Sirona over the Joie I-spin that I already have is that the base separates off so I can take it out the car easily and put it in my parents car if needed. So I’d get 4+ years out of it, as once toddler is above 105cm, I’d get rid of the Joie and put baby in the Sirona.

This is more a parenting question now, do I just make the best parent choice budget, longevity and safety wise, buy the Britax and tell her to deal with it, or still try to be sensitive about this. When I say she’s crying about everything, I mean everything. So it feels unnecessary to upset her further. I guess as a parent I also need to get used to not pandering to my PFB!

I’ve ordered the Britax Advansafix Pro in Dusky Pink. NBS regularly have 10% offers, SUN10 right now, or send you a voucher if you leave stuff in your basket, so was £225. Thank you to everyone who posted, you helped make me confident in purchasing it. The plan is to get it this week and give toddler time to get used to it, planning a trip to granny’s to show off her new pink car seat. I’m full term now and just can’t be bothered with over thinking this anymore.

Just wanted to come back and say everything is great with the Britax Advansafix Pro car seat. Once it had arrived the toddler just took to it. She also looks a lot more comfortable in it and can see out the window so perhaps I should have moved her from the Joie 360 sooner. She can climb in and out herself. I don’t find the straps difficult to do up or tighten, I can do it with one hand as the clips snap together before you put them in the lock mechanism part. I think the car seat upset was definitely more to do with big changes rather than the seat itself and I am really glad I didn’t splurge on a Cybex! Newborn is snug as a bug in the Joie 360. Thanks for the help and the shared experiences everyone.

After a few growth spurts my toddler is now 105cm. I need to change it to the seat belt setting. It’s not clear to me from the manual, do I need to remove the top tether now?

Not an expert by any means but my understanding is that the when used as a high backed booster the car’s seatbelt is what’s securing both the seat and the child. The isofix only exists to secure the seat when the child isn’t in it, otherwise you’d have to belt it back in empty after for example dropping them off at nursery, because the empty seat is a massive loose projectile that could be very dangerous in the event of a crash. So I don’t think it matters whether or not you use the top tether. Probably it’s easier to not have it tethered if you ever want to remove the seat to transfer to another car or for cleaning. But equally I can’t imagine what harm using it would do.

With the Advansafix yes you remove the tether and stow it when the seat is being used in high back booster mode.

I think you don't want the seat being held back at the top because it needs to potentially move with the child in a crash. Leave the isofix attached at the bottom for stability though and yes to stop it moving when empty.

Just looked up the Advansafix Pro manual online - I don't know if you have the same one but I think this is much clearer than the one I have This says no top tether for fastening method B (which is when you change to seatbelt mode)

Thank you so much for clarifying @BertieBotts that the top tether shouldn’t be used with seat belt because it restrains the seat from cushioning child.

I changed it today and then double checked my child’s weight and height. They’re not quite 15kg and just under 105cm. Only a growth spurt away from being over 105cm. Is it ok to use the seat belt? Weight wise she falls into Group 1. Say the 14.5kg. Old set of scales analogue scales so could be a bit off.

https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules

Just rereading from BertieBotts · 22/07/2024 17:00 post. So I should have stayed with harness. I had it in my head that 105cm was the absolute limit for harness. She has grown quite unevenly like you said would be likely. This is all so confusing!

To be honest it's unlikely to make a huge amount of difference, so don't worry if you have switched, but yes personally, I'd stick with 5 point harness until she reaches the 15kg even if it means she goes slightly over the 105cm.

Thanks @BertieBotts . I had a chat with DH and I changed it back. Super quick actually now I know how to do it. I don’t understand why there’s a height limit of 105cm on the harness, but understand that the minimum child weight limit for seat belt is to do with how much force is on them and the pressure on their little bodies. She’s tall but very lightweight and from the growth charts she could be 6.5yo before she’s 18kg. I’ll reassess at the end of the summer.