Rear-facing car seats to 18kg in Britain Campaign!!!

[justforinfo]

Hey guys!

I am a child seat fitter at a large child seat supplying store (I don't think i'd be allowed to say which one!) and I have recently read about rear-facing seats to the age of 4 and after doing some intense research have found that the offer optimum safety for children. They are the norm in Scandinavian countries where child fatalities in crashes are near enough 0 every year. Britax, Graco etc all stress on the websites for scandinavian countries that children should be rear-facing untill they are about 4 years of age but there is no mention of this anywhere on the British sites. The British medical journal stresses that rear-ward facing is the safest option. So why are these seats not widely known about? Why are they not in big stores like the one I work in? Apparently it's because British parents don't want them. So are they trying to say British parents don't value their children's lives? The customers i've spoken to about these rearward facing seats had never heard of them and were shocked they were not being given information that would potentially save their child's life! These seats were not even mentioned in ANY of my training.

It's only through my own personal research I do to make sure i'm offering the best and safest options to parents did I find out about them!

I am currently trying to raise awareness of these seats and to get some at least on display in the company I work for. At the minute this is pretty single-handed!

I'd love to know what your views are on the seats and if you would like the option to have a seat that is 5 times safer?

I'd need alot of support to make any changes to what is supplied in store, but if parents are contacting big chains that supply child seats and asking why they are not being offered these seats it will change! Consumer pressure works wonders and I am at a loss to see how "health and safety Britain" has missed this!

I may just be talking out my backside and parents may be perfectly happy with the traditional seat but i'd appreciate the feedback all the same. Please take a moment to look at this website and watch the crash tests. www.rearfacing.co.uk

Sorry about the essay!
Thanks!

I really really wanted a RF group 1 seat for DS. They were easy enough to find on line. Luckily so was the chart that tells you how much space was required. Sadly the seat would not have fitted in my Golf, even with the front passenger seat all the way forward. We did think seriously about changing cars, and really could not afford it. Part of me feels a bit of a dick for putting the expense of a new (2nd hand) car over my child's safety. If we did ever change up to a big car I would definitely change his seat.

So, as to why H&S UK has missed this, I suspect it might have a lot to do with our preference for small cars. I always considered a Golf a reasonable sized family car, but there was no way the RF seat would fit. Actually, the Infant carrier on the isofix base left little leg room in the front passenger seat!

Sprinkles, which rf seat did you look at? I got a britax two way elite easily in the back of my Polo and they are (obviously!) smaller than the Golf.

Oh really? Is it Isofix? I remember seeing one that was RF that was attached with the seatbelt. DH for some reason thought the seatbelt was inadequate (despite it restraining his 12 stone quite adequately), so was determined it had to be Isofix.

This is a great thread and a fantastic campaign. My ds is in a besafe rf seat. I was a bit scared to come on this thread as any other rf threads usually end up in a bun fight. There seems to be a lot of people who really don't want to think that their kids aren't in the safest possible seats and so attack those who
promote rf seats and they get accused of scaremongering. A national campaign to raise awreness of rf seats might help with this.

I just looked at it on line. Where do the child's feet go? The massive seats that i saw sort of had a space between the seat and the back of the car seat. I guess that's why they needed so much space.

They just kind of bend their knees, there's no gap for feet - my large almost three year old is still very comfortable in her seat. With forward facing seats their feet dangle and don't touch the floor for a while, which seems more uncomfortable to me.

The two way elite isn't isofix, but at the time we bought it we did see an isofix model, which my friend actually bought - I think it was the Recaro Polaric - here's a link to a selection of seats: here

Here's a pic of a young child rf in the recaro polaric: here

Sorry, I meant there's no gap between the car seat and the seat in front.

I've just sent an unnecessarily long email to John lewis about them not stocking rear facing seats apart from the Polaric that loads of cars won't take. I couldn't work out what email address to send it to so I'm hoping it'll get through. Otherwise, I'll print it off and send it to HO.
And I've pretty much made the £300 selling on eBay to buy the Duologic, so I'm seriously happy today!

thanks sticks... The isofix ones were all too big, the Recaro Polaric definitely was as was the Besafe one I think, based on the measurements. The photos seem to show very little leg room with any of the seats, except perhaps the maxicosi tobi. But then the kids look happy enough, and DS never minded the lack of legroom towards the end with the infant carrier! I'm very tempted to upgrade. DH will be irritated though, for all the usual anti-RF reasons. Not so worried about the expense, as I'm sure I'll be able to sell the current seat.

Ah, I see sprinkles. I never really looked at the isofix ones but can see now that they're bigger so see what you mean.

The britax two way elite is great - if you can convince your DH about a seatbelt fixing. The thing that sold it to me is that they are in a harness up until 25 kilos whereas most seats switch to using the adult belt to secure the child before that weight. I much prefer the harness to the adult belt.

Good luck!

Now working on DH. Am thinking of taking DS up to the shop in MIlton Keynes and trying them. If I can get photos of DS looking very happy I'm sure DH will be converted. Thought I did show him the photos on your link, and he said the large child RF in the front seat looked ridiculous and would get broken legs i a crash. I pointed out rather 2 broken legs than one broken neck! He had to agree with that.

I'd show him the crash test videos if he needs convincing!

Is it because so many people int he UK have small cars that they are less popular than, say, in Scandanavian countries?

We have a sporty Golf and a Fiat 500. From what I have seen on the links I can't see any of the seats fitting in the cars and having leg room for front seat passengers.

Just joined the FB page, and invited lots of parent friends. Most of whom though I was a nutter when I was talking about RF seats a few months ago.

I can definitely see the benefits of them regards child safety. I am just curious as to why they are less used here and wondered if it is because many of us have smaller cars.

I can't see any of them on the links that would fit in my Fiat 500 and still be able to have people in the front.

I've got two in my Honda Jazz and Dh still fits in the front, he's 6 foot 5. It IS a bit of a squash for him, but doable. Probably couldn't manage any long journeys though.

I don't know what solid evidence Britax and Maxi-Cosi have for saying "British parents care more about the look of the seat" However, the most common comment i get when advising on child seats is "I like the look of this one" Even if the seat isn't the safest available, parents tend to lean towards a seat that looks good rather than enhanced safety features.

Another problem I encounter is parents having advice from midwives and health visitors regarding child seats and when to move forward facing and quite frequently the advice is incorrect. However, because parents have been told that the child needs to go forward facing at 20lbs by a healthcare professional it takes an awful lot of convincing by me to keep the child rear-facing as long as possible. This issue is another thing that needs to change!

Absolutely justforinfo.

I remember getting my DD weighed at around 9 months and her being 20 pounds and the HV said - without me mentioning car seats "you can turn her round in the car now".

When I asked if she was ok to go into an extended rf car seat she looked at me blankly.

onetwothreeforfive re the micra, we managed to get DD's Besafe in the back of MIL's micra. The only problem was I had to climb into the back to strap her in!

So it can be done... we have a VW Polo, and there's just about enough legroom in the front passenger seat.

Justforinfo you are exactly right. It is the phrasing. Instead of "turn the child forward facing at 20lbs" they should be saying "On no account should you ever turn the child forward facing before 20lbs, and in fact, rear facing is safer until they are approximately 4 years old".

My DD wasn't 20lbs until she was 2 anyway!

ITV have been e-mailed this thread and a passionate call for assistance in finding answers as to why Britax and Maxi-Cosi don't regard British children's safety as highly as Scandinavian children's.

If there is anyone on here that can think of other ways to get the cause more widely known about please say! I have an info sheet available to e-mail to put on notice boards in nurseries/creches etc.

Have you tried the mp with transport responsibility? Not sure who the Govt one is but the shadow one is John Woodcock. I've spoken to him about it.