My child is being bullied by a Neurodiverse child! Help!

[Shellfoho]

Looking for advice! My child and a couple of his friends are being bullied by a Neurodiverse child in his class, we have discussed this with the school, their response seems to be just too explain to my child that some people's brain work differently! Although we both understand that, this child is being physically abusive towards my child and the school do not seem to be doing anything to stop this! Can anyone offer suggestions on how to deal with this without coming across as insensitive? Thanks in advance xx

At no point has @Samesamesituation said that or anything like it.

Why have you changed your mind? Not goady, genuine curiosity

No not at all

Ive said more than once they need support to change their behaviour and during that process supervision to keep others safe.

This happened at our school, not to my DD but another child was injured seriously by a boy with additional needs. The school had ignored all the warning signs. He now attends another school which cater for neurodiverse children which is for the best.

Because I’ve seen how ineffectual ‘doing the right thing’ was.

Most schools do not have general class TAs anymore. Where I work pretty much every TA is 1:1 with a EHCP child and also does other duties. The few who aren’t work with small groups all day. They are not in class and able to help.

Basically, if this child does not have an EHCP and the funding that comes with it there will likely not be anyone available to support him. I work in a large school and we supervise closely any child who harms others. But if he doesn’t have funding from an EHCP that supervision will be done by another child’s 1:1 TA, probably on a shared basis, until funding can be secured.

If the violent behaviour can’t be managed we do put children on a reduced timetable and keep them out of the classroom and playground. This is obviously a last resort but we do not allow any children to be hurt or attacked in school. That is taken very, very seriously.

@ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegotsorry, I haven’t read all comments! But I did see them saying ‘you have to make it work’! I think for all the many threads on this topic that children with severe SEN that results in constant physical abuse, a mainstream school is not the place for them. How the government has allowed this to happen is insanity in my eyes. Yes SEN do need support and education, in specialist settings.

The problem is it’s so hard to get a place at a SEN school so many many ND children have no option other than mainstream

This is my take too. If that’s my son in school one day and I’ve been through the necessary steps to resolve it and nothing happens, he can have the go ahead to do whatever he needs to. I’ll never allow him to take shit from anyone else because of a diagnosis. He’s nobody’s punching bag.

@Thecatspjymasthis is it! Most schools seem to use the SEN as an excuse until it’s too late! Funding or no funding, if a student is violent to this extent they should be removed from the school.

@Samesamesituationand what about the parents? They need to take some responsibility for their child’s behaviour too!

And I’m sure they do but they can’t be held responsible for an incident within school hours.

Agree completely. But on MN the only parents to ever exist with kids who have an issue are up the pole with worry about their child, heartbroken, dedicated to doing anything they can to support the school and are generally incredible parents who are suffering more than you and your neurotypical kid.

Reality is that plenty are dedicated and devastated, but plenty are also disinterested, complain to the school that their child is “triggered by being told no” and generally shrug their shoulders because SEN means their parenting is pointless anyway.

No child should have to tolerate being abused by anyone regardless of SEN. The school need to understand this.
Tbh I'm of the mindset that my children will know how to defend themselves and if someone is beating on them they sure as hell can fight back, your child is not a punching bag for anyone! This would have me fuming

Sometimes another setting is the only answer.

For a while, I worked in a campus where many children with physical and/or intellectual disabilities were supported within mainstream. However, the campus also had a specialist school for children with greater support needs.

In the main, the children in the latter setting were non-verbal. All had a profound intellectual disability.

The specialist school had - at worst - a ratio of one member of staff to 6 pupils. The children there followed a different educational programme. While they accessed the facilities in the mainstream school, albeit with their own classes, they also had access to appropriate facilities which were not open to the pupils in mainstream, the most notable being a sensory classroom.

There was also a separate, safe playground for the children in the specialist school, used by one class at a time and supervised by its staff. Only one class at a time from the specialist school used the dining hall. (For the mainstream school, three year groups at a time used the dining hall and only two members of the teaching staff were on duty.)

Although on the same campus, with some interaction between the two sets of pupils, the two schools were separate and any inspections were conducted separately.

Most parents try their hardest but if a child with limited understanding and/or SEN is triggered in some way or has a meltdown they may act in ways that are seen as inappropriate but it’s either a fear response or something similar perhaps a sudden sensory trigger and they just need to get away instantly. If they lack understanding it’s very difficult it isn’t their fault or the parents fault .

Put all your communication with the school in writing. The school can deny they know of a problem if communication id all verbal.

Easier said than done there aren’t enough SEN schools and it’s difficult to get a place. We need more SEN schools and easier access to EHCP especially for those in mainstream there should be a fast track process to help avoid these situations by providing the funding for 1-1 care if needed

See this is where it all goes wrong!

An opinion Is offered that isn't fluffy or full of hyperbole and virtue signalling empty words and it's met with polarised views "writing off SEN children" "not valuable to society" this needs to bloody stop! I did not say that or even imply that.

Children with needs so high that they are disruptive to children that have no 'special school' to go to may not be best placed in mainstream school. That's not denying them an education. There's many children with no additional needs , such as very quiet academic pupils that are not achieving as they should be or not getting recognised and encouraged because they're feeling neglected. Teachers resources are being ploughed into a single child in a classroom that has high additional needs , causing mass disruption to children that need to learn. If not , society will just not function! You can't always have what we think is 'fair' to all. It's not realistic. It doesn't mean children with complex needs should be forgotten about or not invested in. But mainstream school cannot always be the answer and all the other children are sacrificial lambs. It's crazy how we've got here! There's no balance anymore.

Secondly, of course children with SEN can be valued members of society. But realistically a child that's behaviour and needs are severe and complex enough Is likely not going to end up requiring their education in the same way as other pupils in that class. Once again, if we let "mainstream" pupils sacrifice their education for children with complex needs- then who runs society in the future? It may sound like it lacks empathy, but sometimes we do have to look at things realistically too, for balance.

I think everyone would agree that we need more SEN provision that can accommodate more of these kids. Even if this was planned, it would take years to establish the level of provision that this country needs. We don’t even have enough TAs or 1-2-1s so we’ll all be dead and buried before any fundamental change may take place.

So while we’re all stuck in a flawed education system with no funding and no hope of change, what is the answer?

@Kibble29It would be interesting to see how his parents ‘parent’! I have many friends with SEN kids. They certainly have their difficulties, but they are never violent. I think we sometimes need to look at the lack of proper parenting/attention! I see it all the time, in playgrounds, at schools etc! The children that seem to act in a physically violent/bullying manner the most are the ones that aren’t getting what they need from their parents.

If a child is that highly triggered they should no be in mainstream education and they should be in a specialist school or home schooled.

I completely agree.

Someone who was once a school mum friend made a comment that I was "lucky my children were so nice ". Like they were just born 'nice'. I'm not the world's best mother, but I do invest heavily in my children. The mother in question's son is an absolute horror - real mean streak and has got worse as he's got older. But I do feel for him deep down. She spent most of his childhood on her phone , ignored him , palmed him off to her sister or parents at every conceivable opportunity and fully admitted she wasn't sure whether she should have had a child. Her life never changed. It's easy to feel sorry for him when it's written in black and white - but he really was a mean, hostile child. In fact he spooked me a bit. But still, I kind of see where it comes from. Rejection and lack of attention. I know that's a slightly different example. But, you can definitely see how some children's behaviour is shaped or worsened by their parenting.

I quite agree that we need more SEN schools.

When I started out teaching - not in the school that I mentioned above - my school had a separate Special Education Unit with its own HT. This took the children through all stages of primary and secondary.

The school moved into a new build. The SEU became the SE Department. Sometimes, it was possible for children from SED to take classes within mainstream, whilst supported by their assistant from the SED.

Some years later, that SED was only accepting non-verbal children, with a push to place more and more children into mainstream, but without the necessary resources - a theme right across our LA, with specialist facilities being shut down.

By the time I retired, I'd have a full class of 30 with one Classroom Assistant for the entire class - but only for about half the timetable for that class, if I was lucky.

The C.A. would become frustrated because it was literally impossible for them to work with children who needed their input. I'd be running around trying to support children working at umpteen different levels, taking different courses and dealing with educational and behavioural problems across the board.

In the meantime, the C.A. would finds themselves unable to work with children who would have benefited from the extra support because no one could get any work done unless the child with the most severe behavioural problems was getting one-to-one.

On top of the usual difficulties, we had some pupils with English as a Second Language. Support from the LA consisted of one morning visit a week from an ESOL teacher - for the entire school.

Until the powers that be are prepared to pay for more staff, we're all stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Yes...to say that it varies is an understatement.

I've worked (within mainstream) with children with ASD who have had severe difficulties but whose parents have been wonderfully supportive of their children and the school. I've also worked with children with lesser difficulties whose parents simply switched off their phones as soon as the children were in school.

(The same goes, of course, for children with no specific challenges.)