What do I do about my sons bully?

[CrystalQueen87]

DS 6 is being bullied by a girl in his class.
It started a few months ago when she was just saying some mean things to him but most recently it's progressed to physical bullying.
In the last couple of months he's had her nails dig into his arm and broke the skin, been kicked in the leg, punched in the tummy, and pushed over which resulted in cut and grazed knees.
I'm absolutely horrified and so sad this is happening.

So far I have:
Spoke to his class teacher each time an incident has happened, she has said 'I will keep an eye' and the girl gets spoken to or goes to time out.

What is the best way to go about dealing with this with the school please?
Am I over reacting?
The mum of said girl is totally not approachable as she is not someone who you could have a chat with about the situation.

I'm keeping a record of every time something happens and the date what happened etc.

Is this kids being kids or bullying?
I don't want to be that mum who makes an issue if kids are just bickering and being kids, but I don't want this to keep happening to my boy 😪

How are you protecting your DC by telling them to walk away when they just keep getting hurt again?

I work in children's safeguarding and what I'd say as a professional and honestly how I feel as a parent are two totally different things.

My DD told me recently when we passed some girl in the street that when she was in year 7 and new to secondary some girl in year 8 who was in their mixed PE class name called her and humiliated her for a year.

DD then told me that at the end of term DD called this girls "ginger minge" (girl has red hair) and this girl dissolved into tears crying that she couldn't help her hair colour.

Honestly I felt proud for DD for standing up for herself and wish she'd done it earlier.

@CultureAlienationBoredomandDespair I'm telling them to use their words. We don't need to resort to violence. No wonder there're kids out here now doing what their doing ffs. Knife attacks have never been higher and I wonder why. We should be teaching our kids to keep their hands to themselves. No one has a right to hit anyone

I agree with PPs saying give it back. If this is something he would struggle doing, maybe get him into a club like boxing or judo. Not to teach him to fight but to give him confidence.

@SistersNotCisters I'm a primary school teacher. I see why some kids become violent and it's usually trauma based (or occasionally mental health issues going on). These children can be some of the most vulnerable. However if it's your child on the receiving end of being abused, then quite rightly your focus isn't on that child. But mine is, as well as your child too.

I also can't wrap my head around encouraging your own children to become violent - to solve violence with violence. To ask young children to make that decision, without knowing the ramifications of it, is asking a lot from them. How do young children know when to stop hitting, or how hard to hit, or if they hit too hard and the other child bangs their head on the ground causing a hospital trip, that to me is way too much to put on a young child's shoulders.

Better for the adults, who should know better and have some kind of control over the situation, to sit down together, discuss and put a plan in place. If that doesn't work then follow the complaints procedure.

Exactly this.

This is usually a good suggestion but if she comes from a really bad background, it might escalate. You don't want the mother turning on him too.

I'd ask for a talk with the HoY and the Head and request the girl is removed from his class. If this is not done, contact the school governors. Say the situation is not being effectively dealt with by the teaching staff and that your son has the right to try to learn without being caused physical pain, injury and fear.

Schools that don't deal with bullying effectively are a waste of time. I would look at alternative schools for him if they're not prepared to remove her or prevent her. I think teachers forget how horrible it is. If their fellow staff kicked them, pushed them over, punched their stomachs and dug nails in until their skin broke, they wouldn't feel fit to teach so why do they expect a tiny child to feel able to learn under these circumstances.

I massively admire you.

DS1 punched his bully after three years. Not at school, at an out of school club. The adult in charge took me aside and said the bully had it coming. I have adored that man ever since for seeing what the teachers refused to see. The bully moved on to someone else.

I'm so shocked at everyone suggesting violence. And at the absolute hatred for the bullies/their parents. I get it that you want to protect your kids but there has to be other ways round it, as the bullies are just kids too who are clearly in need of the right support. I'd probably try finding self defence classes, and assertiveness techniques to say a clear NO you are not to treat me like that, and I'd go for building supportive networks with other friends, and pushing school to do more by being a massive pain in their arse, I'd go for supporting hobbies that will build confidence and I'd go for changing schools and even areas if necessary but I'd never encourage my kids to hit, fight, condemn, mock or hate the bullies. It doesn't feel like a route forward as a model for later life. I haven't yet dealt with bullying as a parent tho. I have seen it from every side professionally and as a kid myself.

So basically let’s all make excuses for the bully. Why on earth should you consider moving schools rather than addressing the problem which is the bully? The bully somehow becomes the victim while the real victim has a miserable life.

That’s what happens in the real world. Bullies, criminals, despots, dictators - whoever wields power over others in an abusive way needs to be stopped. It doesn’t make it right and maybe reparations need to be made afterwards but ultimately the violent person needs to be stopped in their tracks.

And sometimes they only understand one thing and that’s a bloody nose. Pacifism is an admirable stance on paper but it doesn’t stop spiteful, nasty bastard bullies.

I agree. The kids who don't bite back are generally the kids bullies target because they can.

DS had a rotten kid in his class when he was in year 3, the horrid child was violent and aggressive with many of the children. Said child chose DS as his target one day, it went on for weeks and the teachers did nothing. Despite my complaints, me wanting action.

In the end I said to DS, just smack him back one. You'll get in trouble in school, but don't worry nothing will follow on at home.

Well about 2 days later, the rotten child pushes DS then punches him and pulls DS hair, DS then swung a punch, connected and then threw the horrid child to the floor and yelled "just leave me alone"

I was called in, DS was told off by the teacher in front of me and I just shrugged and as we walked out offered to take DS for an ice cream.

Horrid child never picked on DS or DS's best friend again.

Horrid child since then, has been punched back a few times, horrid child has no friends, continues to be a nightmare for the teaching staff, but the majority of the kids are safe because the majority opted for smacking him back one. Horrid kids mother is constantly yelling/swearing and crying about how horrid kid is alone, not invited to birthday parties, and we've all told her, her kid is a bully and we don't want him around our children. She needs to sort it out.

I was bullied as a child. I was absolutely not a helpless victim and always fought back one way and another. I tried the various approaches for fighting back and this is what I learned.

I have to say that saying ‘Stop, I don’t like it’ makes the bully repeat those words back to you in a silly voice, laugh their heads off and then carry on their bullying behaviour on steroids. Choosing your best put down is also a waste of time as they won’t understand it. Pearls before swine.

Ignoring the behaviour (assuming it’s even possible - I only managed it for a week as a very strong-willed 14-year-old) merely gives permission for the bully to carry on. They don’t get tired of it; they are stimulated by their own actions, not by their victim’s reactions. As Molesworth said in How to be Topp, ‘i will tell you you are in the duck pond and it is joly freezing’. (sic.)

Informing authority figures only works if the authority figures actually have authority. I seriously doubt most teachers do. The very worst bullies are masterful at covering their tracks and even staying on teacher’s good side. Anti-bullying policies are all very well but at worst they can actually slow down effective action.

I hit back on occasion. Mostly this was met with a nod and a wink from any teacher witnesses (as well as the usual token telling off) and it could be remarkably effective as a way of shocking the bully into desisting, at least for a while. But it doesn’t work if the bully is well versed in physical combat (they often speak ‘brick’ pretty fluently) or if the school has a ‘zero tolerance’ attitude to fisticuffs. The victim may end up being the only one in trouble, and/or fighting out of their depth. I don’t advise it for this reason.

I found the only thing that stopped bullying was leaving the bullies behind. Going to a different school, and growing up, was like night and day. Get your kid out, is my advice, and if you can’t yet get him out, keep him as safe as you can and remind him this is not forever.

This is good and can also help (re)build self esteem which can obviously be badly knocked by being bullied.

Not every bully comes from an abusive household. Being a dick doesn't always come from trauma. Taking pleasure in having power by making other children cry isn't automatically because the kid comes from a rough background.
Most of my experience of downright awful kids have come from privileged backgrounds with just as obnoxious parents who either encourage their kid's nastiness or are completely passive in their parenting under the guise of gentle parenting.

Shitty adults exist. Young versions do exist. The difference is that if your coworker spits on your lunch or pushes your head onto your desk while passing causing a huge lump on your head they get fired then arrested and punished by the courts. Children get feebly asked not to do it again and no real consequences because the teachers know it's more trouble than it's worth to deal with and will just seat that child next to a quiet girl in class who will be a "calming influence" (aka won't say shit to getting hit)

I would inform the school that as it keeps happening and their way of dealing with it has been completely i affective, that you have now instructed your child not to put up with it and if the bully goes for him again he will be giving her a hard slap back.

Hit back, hit harder and don’t get caught…and I had a teacher agree with me off the record that was the only approach that worked

I've got experience of this.

Suggestions

1. as PP have said contact the school formally and ask for an action plan. Make sure to tell your child what action the school is taking to make it better. Get them to feedback direct to you about how it's being handled in the classroom.

2. we did role play with our DD. With her as bully and me as DD and helped upskill her to be assertive and stand her ground with confidence. We also encouraged her to have a 121 in the playground with the bully to explain how it felt and to ask why she was doing it. They ended up resolving the issues quite effectively between them. (They were about 7-8 at the time). 'When you do this, I feel x. Why do you feel the need to be so mean to me? '

3. yes to self defence if needed. In secondary my DS and mates were cornered by the bullies and DS (a very gentle soul) punched the the main culprit who had him up against the wall by his throat. DS got detention 🙄 but the head of year (after I complained) did acknowledge the effectiveness (and skill!) of the punch. It was last resort though.

One of my own primary school bullies is now a friend, many moons on, turned out she was having a horrible time at home and was acting it out at school 😥. It was still shit for me though.

I don’t think hit back and hit harder is the solution unfortunately. In my experience of having kids and working in schools this will just lead to regular fights. I’m very skeptical of the tales of I/my child hit them back and that was the end of it. A child who is regularly lashing out (and I doubt it’s just the ops son on the receiving end) likely won’t just learn their lesson and stop.
What you need is for the school to be doing something proactive to prevent the hitting. It may be that the child needs 1-1 support at break times and that where they sit in class needs to be managed. Clearly time outs etc after the event aren’t working.

It would depend. If my child was a bully I’d expect that another parent might intervene.

a strong word with the child might make them think twice about bullying. Also if you approach the child the teacher will take action because they won’t want trouble with the parents. So you could say to the teacher that either she intervenes to protect your child or you will say something directly.

I dunno. My son's bully - systematic bullying for three years - stopped overnight when my son punched him. He moved on to another gentle kid whose mum was utterly horrified when I admitted I was proud of DS for retaliating at last. That mum spent literally thousands of pounds on self defence classes for him but he was bullied right through secondary and ended up so traumatised he took a year out to just try and cope with life. He was - is - the sweetest, loveliest boy, and now he's a young man with low self esteem. He is brilliant too but has chosen a job where he doesn't have to deal with human beings.
I think our culture of making allowances for bullies means they rise and rise and we grow ever more passive and helpless as they destroy our country, our services, our economy. There is a place for unashamed aggression in life and it is in the realm of defence against bullies and despots.

I agree. I’m sorry your son had to go through this. I was bullied as a young person and I am quite reactive to bullies to this day. It’s horrible but sometimes you need to fight back

Primary schools are rubbish at dealing with bullying, in fact they usually coddle the bully as they assume it’s because of some sort of mh problem or trauma at home & they won’t accept that some kids are just bloody nasty. I would 100% tell your ds to hit her back twice as hard, why shouldn’t he stand up for himself, failing that I (personally) would have been up that school confronting the child/parent, no way should he have to put up with that crap

I was bullied for years, always told not to retaliate. Tell teacher. I did as told for 3 years. It got worse and worse, more kids started joining in. One day I snapped swore at them loudly and shoved them in the stomach. Never laid a finger on me again! Wish I'd done it sooner. Would of had a happier school life and better grades :(