Is it ok to tell my son to hit back?

[WendyWolf]

.. I am very against that advise but really getting sick of things and at wits end.

Basically we had issues that came to a head in Yr5. Had gone on for 3 years and 3 different Heads and the behavioural problems in a small group of boys were not improving. My son was desperately unhappy. After much gut wrenching/governor complaints etc we finally moved schools. Best thing we ever did. DS settled fast, a weight was lifted from him and to prove it he did himself really proud in SATS and left primary on a high.

Now at upper school. Some of the original children from previous school are there and he generally gives them a wide berth. We have had a few incidents but he has handled it well - one kid in particular just being persistently mean. I informed the school every time - who seem pretty uninterest to be honest. DS grits teeth and gets on with it. - Said child apparently took shit stuff off his shoe today and wiped all over my DS's jumper. We grit teeth. At the bus stop today older child went up to mine and slapped him on both sides of his face. Laughed and carried on his way. This child is a couple of years older, lives locally and had done similar a few times now.

What do I do? Tell my 11 yr old to toughen up? Stand up for himself? Each little incident takes him a step back to remembering the awful bullying of before and I can see his anxiety levels rising. What would you do? Most blokes seem to say to boys to hit back etc. It doesn't sit right with me. But I am aware he is 11 and I can't keep fighting his battles for him. I would really welcome some advice from others who have experienced similar and come out the other side.

Also DS and I divorcing. Kid has enough going on.

Cody - what are they gaining by not phoning the other parents? I fail to see how they benefit in the situation you are describing.

They may well have phoned the other parents after you made them aware of what had happened. If so, they probably can't tell you for confidentialty reasons.

Sounds like there isn't a decent system for reporting concerns within school, and they should be dealing with that.

Of course I am not saying that you did nothing! You seem (understandably) a bit on edge about all this. You'll get much further with the school if you are calm and measured. I know this shouldn't be the case, but this is the world we live in.

I went to a high school which was incredibly violent and in which bullying was rampant. It was the least safe environment I have ever been in in my life (and I have visited through work secure units and prisons and so on, all of which were safer as there was actual control by the staff). I have little faith in schools anti bullying policies. I teach my dcs that hitting back is your last resort but if it's the only option left to you, do it, do it like you bloody mean it and I will back you up. It's easy to say never hit back as violence solves nothing but it's better to hit back than be battered senseless. And pp are right that once you fight back it's astonishing how much less of a target you become. Bullies will attack, given the choice, someone who will just take it over someone who will give it right back.

But if my dc hit first or had the option to walk away safely or are in an environment where reporting violence actually did get it stopped, they would be in serious trouble with me if they'd chosen a violent option. It's ok as a last resort, but never any other time.

Tell him to hit back. He needs to show the other boys he can't be messed with or he'll have a target painted on him as the kid that it is safe to pick on.

I was badly bullied at school but no one cared. The school was useless. I tell you to this day I am scarred by what happened. I hate violence anyway but Mum always told me to turn the other cheek, so I did. They just hit it.

Not long before she died, Mum said she wished she'd told me to hit back when I was being bullied. She saw the damage years of bullying took on me.

Unless you've been badly bullied yourself, you have no idea of what it does to you.

'Since when was violence solved by violence?'

Fairly often, at least in the context of school bullying, if the responses to this thread are anything to go by

alltouchedout I like that.

I was bullied too. Spent years literally terrified to go to school as a huge girl about 3 years older - who I had never even spoken to - decided to slap me if I walked passed her. I was petrified. I ended up staying off school, my parents did nothing (very liberal hands off parents) and I got in no end of trouble for missing out on school - at school. I can't ever remember anyone even asking me if I was being bullied - I was just labelled as a problem I think - although never in trouble myself and academically capable. I never told a soul - too scared!!

Left school, thrived, studied A levels etc in the evenings whilst working full time - Made a bad situation good.

Then you have children and the whole sorry scenario reappears, almost in a more frightening way as you are watching your most precious thing go through this.

I have emailed the Head of Year. I am going to meet with her next week and discuss. With a view to her taking other child to one side and telling him other children on the bus witnessed this behaviour (not my DS) I think that may be an option that takes the heat off my child if she agrees, then I am going to follow alls advice above. I think that is brilliant.

God. When does it get easier? He's only 11. Poor kid has been through these traumas for last 3 years and he digs so deep and does so well. His grades and attitude in class are fine/great. I don't want that to slide.

True OThehuge also I can't help but wonder if most of the parents dead against fighting back have had the experience of useless school anti-bullying procedures or had to witness their confident, bright, smiley child crumble before their eyes.. It is really really helping me to see this mix of opinion and experiences. Thank you all so much. all round and later.

Let me tell you what most anti bullying policies say

"We take bullying seriously"

That's it -

Nothing about consequences
Nothing about teaching children about the effects of bullying
Most schools won't use "Bullying" as a term it's seen as a dirty word
Nothing about bystanders

It's not worth the paper it's written on

I would make schools responsible for lack of safety - and I would like to see parents given the right to sue for the damage done to their children

The years of misery - and the continued damage into adulthood

Thank you also Forgiven that is good advice. I will discuss with DS later and think if we can come up with some 'comments' he can make. I can't think of any myself at the moment as it feels in that situation it may inflame the situation more if he starts answering back taking the piss Some suggestions would help please

cody I feel and share your frustration. It is a miserable road to be on. I feel sorry for the staff sometimes too as they are so overworked. My DC's safety is my priority though - emotional as well as physical. It is an horrendous experience.

Please do not teach your children to hit back. Since when is violence solved with violence?

Sorry apple but there's quite a few examples on this thread of where it actually has helped.

It also strikes real fear into me that we seem to be in an age of constant relationship breakdowns - mine included. There are 3 children in my sons year (that I know of!) that have separated in the last few months and all of those children are struggling with understandable emotional problems and as a result their behaviour has declined. The schools response to any kind of support is simply that they are over-run - they are trying their best but they have children with much more severe and long term behavioural issues and funding issues etc this fucking shit damaging government and they just cannot help all of them. It is a sad state of affairs and I think sadly it will get worse. These kids are not getting enough support and there must be longer term problems ahead because of that.

Yes drop. It was the only way for me. I don't think I'd be here now had I not learned to hit back - my life was hell. My mum tried everything. She had so so so many meetings at school. Nothing worked. Ever. My mum lost her rag and ended up going round to the parents house, that didn't work. The day I hit back it stopped. I'm not saying it's good to hit back and I'm not saying it should be condoned. Because I've already spoke about how it affected me. But all this 'be the bigger person' and 'walk away' rhetoric doesn't help when someones scragged you around by your hair and kicked you in the face, ripped your new jacket, spread rumours that your mums a prostitute, blah blah.

The reason standing up to a bully (and hitting back) works is because bullies pick on those they perceive to be an 'easy target'.

The last thing the bully wants is to lose face in front of an audience, so they pick on someone that looks easy to intimidate for whatever reason.
If they get away with it they will keep returning to that particular person to bully because they know it's a sure thing that the person won't retaliate.

"Violence doesn't solve violence" - maybe not, but asserting yourself against bullies physically or verbally will most definitely vastly reduce the chances of you being pushed around again.

My dad told me something when I was a kid.

He said if someone is bullying me, to take it on the chin, if they ever hit me, ensure THEY hit first and that there are witnesses. Then ONCE hit them as hard as I can. Then walk away.

A girl did it once. I'd had enough and I was walking out of school when she jumped me. Kept hitting me, Kidd surrounded us, the usual. So I slid my fingers in her hair then used her hair to yank her head to the ground. Sat across her head and told her if she ever touched me or my friends again, she'd get a dressing down she wouldn't forget.

Funnily enough she never said or did anything towards me or my friends again.

Once bullies realise you're not going to be fucked with, they'll likely back off.

Surro I was taught never let anyone hit me, if I thought they were going to hit me then hit them first and hard. I was hit once and never hit back but I was taken round to their door and told to hit them. The boy who hit me cried when my dad told me to hit him back, the boy never hit me again though...

Why do I get the feeling apple is a teacher?

In my experience schools are shit at dealing with bullying. They SHOULD be required to keep proper records of every report made (like they do with accidents) and be required to put in place a prevention!

No actual advice except to say that oh and I have this argument all the time-I'm against hitting back and he's all for it

I suppose it nips it in the bud but I'm always afraid of it making things worse or escalating to a point that dc can't handle it...that's my own bullying history issues though

We have an 11yo dd

Baconyum I am! I genuinely think we deal with bullying well and it doesn't reach this point. Especially with new buildings and cctv and staff everywhere, I think it is much easier to catch and sanction bullies. I think it is really sad that this isn't always the case.

I'd be interested to know if the parents and children at your school feel you deal with it well

My DS has had various incidents where he has been repeateadly picked on.. Last time was about 2 months ago ..He is 9..He started tae kwon do after last incident..He is not a fighter..Group includes self defence.. I think he needs it. I have also told him. If he ever hits anyone bullying him I will stand by him no matter what the consequences..I also do other things to boost his confidence...I do think as a kind, gentle senstive kid I think he is going to always be a bit of a target so it is helping him deal with that.

baconyum so would I. Haven't had any reports of bullying not being dealt with in my year group this year. I'm secondary though.

I'd be interested to know if the parents and children at your school feel you deal with it well

me too! DD lost all faith in any adult helping her - she wouldn't have bothered asking for help - because she learnt adults don't help - or make it worse.

Some teachers/schools do deal well with bullying. I'm really sorry that some of you have experienced those who don't, and it must be a terrible situation to be in. But that isn't necessarily a universal experience. If you're dealing with a school that appears not to care, then have you tried escalating to the Board of Governors, the Local Authority (if it's not an academy), the Department for Education, your MP? It's exhausting and wrong that you might have to do this, but enlisting powerful allies who can put pressure on a school to do the right thing can really help.

I'm glad you've contacted the school, OP, in spite of your son's original wishes: I don't think an 11 year old is best placed to determine a course of action in these things. Obviously, your son is your priority but there are other children to consider too. As previous posters have said, if one 'victim' proves too difficult, a bully is likely to move on to another. It's the bully that needs the intervention, and that can't possibly happen if schools don't know about it.

Firstly, dont discourage him from defending himself. If he doesnt play by the rules of the field, he wont get the respect he needs from his piers to get by.
Your son is obviously not a violent person, but has been taught some self defence and should not hesitate to use it if he is attacked.

If you were at work, and someone spat on you, kicked or punched you or hurled abuse at you, would you do nothing? Dont ask your DS to be better than human nature.

Very often a one-time short and sharp shock is needed to stop the bully and discourage further bullying. It may land your son in detention, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Never depend upon the teachers, the school, or any other authority to stand up for you and your son instead. Even with the very best efforts of the teachers and school, there is no guarantee of an end to the bullying.

If nothing helps, then take DS out asap to avoid psychological damage which can be permanent if bullying is prolonged. It is better to miss out on some schooling but have a healthy self-esteem and self worth and be a happy person...life is full of opportunities but not to those who have been left damaged and destroyed by their school life.

Also avoid anger at home and encourage your DS to take on responsibility as home and outside, jobs chores and extra curricular activities. There is nothing like keeping busy and taking on responsibility to build a healthy self-esteem and good self confidence.