why flame ff mums?

[maxpower]

I'm getting increasingly pissed off with literature that treats ff so negatively. I was reading the bounty book about pregnancy and in one of the sections about feeding your baby, it was structured entirely around why ff was wrong and evil and no good for your baby (rather than focusing on the positives about bf). IMO, mums should be supported and recognised for whatever decisions they make about feeding their babies. Every contact I've had so far in this pregnancy in relation to feeding has gone on and on about bf like anything else is completely unacceptable. We hear a lot about bf mums feeling unsupported but nothing is set up to support ff mums. I've never seen ff cafe's or meet ups advertised anywhere, so ff mum's are also being excluded from important social and supportive events. No-one ever seems to recognise that actually, ff can be harder work in some respects. Bf mums don't need to wash, sterilise and make up bottles, they don't have to plan ahead when going out - if they get held up they have food immediately available, they don't have to consider how they will heat bottles etc when out, they don't have to spend money on formula. How about some support for mums who either choose or resort to ffeeding rather than treating them as lazy, selfish mums who don't care about their baby's wellbeing?

"everyone knows that bm is best, BUT fm was not invented for mothers who were too lazy/vain/arrogant/stupid to use it, but in order to save lives."

formula was invented to make money out of waste product. and that is the truth.

I don't disagree with bf groups, I regularly go to the one near me with help and support in feeding dd2, however after failing to bf dd1 and ff instead there was no other alternative support group. It would have been nice to have a support group for mothers regardless of feeding methods to run alongside the bf group. I know I would have benefited from chatting to other mothers about a whole host of other baby issues.

I did feel slightly excluded and see where the op is coming from.

i cant help but wonder that if FF support groups were in such high demand then people would have had the initiative to set them up rather than whinge about not being able to go to a group that would provide them with no relative information for their problem.

you know, necessity being the mother of invention and all that.

hollyoak are you seriously saying there were no other groups in your area other than a bf group?

i find it so hard to believe that BF groups are outnumbering all other parenting groups.

when i had ds1 there was no bf group in local area, loads of other groups but no bf group. they have finally (5 years after i moved) set one up now in that town and it is the only one in a 15 mile radius of the one in the town where i live now.

we have about 40 groups 1 is a bf group.

There are lots of toddler groups but no other baby groups that I'm aware of except the bf one. Don't think there needs to be a ff group though.

The vast majority of all support groups, events and activities for families with babies and small children are open to all, with not even a mention of feeding.

It is crazy to say there is hardly anything that allows non-bf mothers - how on earth is this discrimination supposed to be put in place? Why on earth would anyone ask at these groups how you were feeding?

There may be nothing specific for ff mothers - but as people say, if there is a need for a support group for these mums, then set one up

I live rurally, v rurally. We have within 3 miles jo jingles, tumble tots, some presma thing, baby yoga, baby massage, NCT, toddler groups, a bfing cafe, Surestart, library sessions for parents and children, pushchair fitness groups, church coffee mornings for parents etc. One of those is for bfers.

Where are you people that say you have nowhere to go? Give me an approximate location and I'll find you a village hall with lukewarm tea and broken toys.

I agree - loads of different groups within my locality. One of these - Baby Cafe - is geared towards supporting BF mums and it does this well. One of my friends however wanted to go so she could see me and another friend and our babies, but was FF and no one minded a bit!

I do feel that mums that have been unable to BF for whatever reason, shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it though. Just be confident that only you know your specific circumstances and you know that you are doing the best for your baby in those circumstances.

Why don't you contact Cow & Gate? I bet they'll give you loads of support/ advice.

ps This is not a joke.

i was lucky in that there was a village group to go to, otherwise, the nearby town had nothing there for me, except the bf group. there was a new mums group, but you were only allowed to attend for the first few months of having a baby.

i really do think that everything possible should be done to establish bf, but once you get to ff, you have very little help & advice, except from the companies who profit from it. I had to drive about 20 miles to hire a machine to exp.bm, no-one had any hints on which bottles/teats/steriliser etc to use, or if there's a difference between diff. brands etc. having had an em cs, no family nearby, dh at work, and no shops within walking distance, i just had to sort it all out for myself.

from the sound of it, i am not alone in this experience (btw, it didn't bother me that much, until the exp. failed after a month). i think it's a bit like when you have a v different birth experience from the one you planned - there is no-one to give you support, you are just expected to get on with it, and learn to move on.

the thing with advice on bottles, teats, sterilisers etc though is that you can get that advice without needing physical support to understand it. for something like correcting a bad latch, you need to actually see it being demonstrated properly and you can get that at bf groups when there are other babies there feeding. it isn't the same when you see it in a book or on the internet.

maxpower if true then its sad there that you had no information to help with the switch to ff. I was however given literature on ff (how to sterilise/make bottles etc) as well as bf in more than one piece of information.

If health professionals are refusing to discuss formula feeding with mothers who ask about it and need info or support then they're not doing their job and should be retrained. Did you consider complaining about individuals that refused to help you?

I agree that mothers who need to talk through feelings about stopping bf before they were ready need support. A group of new mothers struggling to continue bf may not be the best place to address those issues alongside helping women who are not as far along their journey and may be desperately struggling to continue bf. The people who volunteer for the national bf orgs should all be able to talk through these issues if a mum rings one of the helplines. Some people choose to do this when they're expecting their next baby.

OP are you saying that general massage/singing/toddler groups aren't meeting your needs because unlike the bf support group, they are not focussed specifically on providing emotional & practical support to mums in their parenting? It's natural to feel sad about being actively excluded from something, especially if it's a group you fully epected to be part of and because of the way things worked out (which perhaps you feel sad about already), you are now excluded. I'm not sure how this situation can be avoided, given that supporting bf mums in the way done at groups I've been to is much easier in that sort of environment than at a general group.

I am sure you're not alone in your feelings. I understand that mothers who use formula in societies where breastfeeding is near universal feel incredibly isolated. I do not know how this can be totally avoided though? If everyone does one thing, and one individual wanted to but couldn't, they are then in a tiny and potentially rather lonely minority . Perhaps this situation is mirrored in a small way in some areas and some social groups in the UK where bf is the norm, and this is what you are describing?

I was not being flippant about starting a group, if you feel there is a need. Trouble is, if there are only a small number of people in one situation, a support group won't take off. This happens in areas where the numbers of mothers breastfeeding at 1 week at any given time can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Sometimes bf support groups in those areas don't take off, because there aren't really any bf mothers to attend them.

Ooops, that was long

I think it really does depend where you live. At the Sure Start I go to there's a general baby group, a breast feeding group and a twins group so it's pretty evenly distributed. There's a pretty even mix of BF and FF mums at the baby group. I think starting a FF group would be great although you'd probably have to hire a church hall or something as I doubt anywhere connected with the NHS would allow you to have a FF group on their premises in case they were seen to be promoting FF. HV's will talk about FF (although we all know how reliable they can be!?) but I know that the Sure Start people where I go won't and can just give out an NHS leaflet on FF. If you need info on FF'ing best place to go is formula feeding message boards on the net, ask other FF mums or ring up the formula company's help lines. And I'm all for BF support groups, BF can be hard and people often need all the support they can get

Everywhere is ff friendly. All minorities deserve extra support and that includes bfders. People don't tut when you get out a bottle, don;t ask you to feed your baby in a toilet......

The basic fact is that formula feeding is the artificial option and has health risks. That's just a fact. As someone who desperately wanted to bf, failed, and felt like utter and complete crap about it, that's really tough to know. But what you seem to want is to be lied to so you can feel better - what's the point in that?

The big advantage to ff as far as I can work out is that in some cases it means the mother avoids post natal depression, which is usually bad for the child. I will never know if I should have just gone over to ff, instead of spending months expressing all the feeds and trying to overcome DS's problems with feeding naturally. It took a big toll on our relationship, and it was hell on wheels. That's a definite issue, and a friend who gave up bf at 4 weeks because it was making her hate her child IMO very obviously made the right choice for them both. But that isn't to say it hasn't got its own costs.

What do you want? Them to sugar coat the science? Ff is good enough in the vast majority of cases, and for some it can be literally life saving. But it is not as good as natural feeding. On an individual level, the gap is probably not huge for most (though triple the risk of cot death is a horrible figure to hear, cot deaths are still really rare). On a public health level, it's a massive issue and costs the NHS a stack, as well as probably dropping the national IQ a few points - again, negligible on an individual level, less so on a whole population. So why should the state pay to tell you less than the honest truth, when less than the honest truth costs the taxpayer £££?

There is a difference between flaming, and honesty. I despise people who flame ffers, and I know they do exist. I absolutely respect and stand up for the right of any woman to determine what she does with her own breasts. It is her right to choose. But I do not despise, resent or blame people who simply give parents the facts on how to help their babies, either.

"People don't tut when you get out a bottle,"

Actually Posy, yes they do, on occasion. I lived in Cambridge, home of Baby Milk Action, and one charming woman loudly remarked that I'd have my baby on chips next. (I was also glared at in Starbucks, and at the time humbly assumed it was the bottle. Looking back on it, I think I was so obsessed by feeling a failure I read it that way, and he was just thinking, "oh fuck, a baby, and I wanted a nice quiet coffee...")

You can't win, basically. People criticise mothers whatever their choices.