am struggling emotionally/mentally/physically with b.f 5 week old.someone help me please.

[motherbeyond]

i've found it hard from the start.ds feeds all the time.have had to co-sleep as he wont go in the moses basket.i feel he is using me as a dummy.if he cries,the only way he'll settle is to let him suckle.
i've rung Little Angels,in tears at 2 am when ds was 2wks old..la leche a week later.they said to let him suckle as it would up the milk supply.

i have major worries that i don't produce enough milk (due to breast augmentation)and panic he's not getting enough.

however,a few weeks ago the mdwf was really pleased that he had put on over 1 1/2 oz a day since he was last weighed.so i stopped worrying.

i took him to be weighed yesterday thinking he'd have put loads of weight on with all the feeding...he'd dropped to the 50 th centile from the 75 th (was 91st when born) and had only put 9 oz on in 2 weeks.

it just compounded all my fears,and i just cryed at the clinic like a saddo infront of everyone.

i've invested so much into this and i thought as long as he's putting weight on,it's worth it..but now he's not.i'm exhausted,have had mastitis,and have 2 other pre school dc's....i really really really want to carry on,but i just don't think i make enough milk.

h.v said as long as 3 dirty and wet nappies a day he's ok,which he's always had..and now he hasn't pooed since yestersay evening...it's as if he's trying to tell me to stop!
i feel really low about it all..can anyone advise please?

he is putting on weight though

I am sure someone more knowledgable will be along soon, but 9oz in two weeks seems ok to me

All the feeding is so hard, i do sympathise. DD fed all the time.

I would try to contact a breastfeeding counsellor that you can see face to face for some expert advice and reassurance. Do they have one at your NHS trust? You could ask the HV.

Hang on in there. Are you on your own in the day? Sounds like you need a bit of looking after yourself

You poor love.

If the HV isn't worried about his weight gain, then he's doing fine. A lot of babies drop percentiles for a while and then settle into their curve; those of us who don't weigh very often probably don't even have any idea about it, you know?

And they do get to a point where they stop doing the constant poos and start pooing every few days, if they're EBF - can't remember when my daughter did so, though.

As for suckling and sleep, 5 weeks old is brutally hard, and I doubt it'd be easier on formula. He's looking for comfort and warmth at this age, and there's nothing as comforting as suckling on you - you'd manage either way, but you'd end up having to find another way to soothe him, there's no quick fix but time.

All of that said, though, if it's making your time with him miserable, and you're really worried about him, do go back and talk to the HV again. And formula doesn't make you a failure, it's more important that the two of you bond and he'll be nourished perfectly well either way. I'm a great proponent of breastfeeding, because it makes life so much easier because you can co-sleep and they can latch on while you doze, no heating up bottles and faffing with sterilisers and etc. But if it's what you want to do, it's not a huge deal.

Good luck, either way.

Poor you, it really can be the hardest thing in the world sometimes . It sounds like you are doing an amazing job. I'm sure someone more experienced will be a long soon, but I just wanted to offer my support.

In terms of what you are doing, it all sounds right to me. 9oz in 2 weeks is great! If you can try not to get him weighed as often, I go about once every 10 weeks (my dd puts on about 3oz per week and is doing just fine - now 5 months). Also as long as he is having lots of wet nappies don't get too stressed about the dirty ones, some babies don't poo for a week, it's just that bm is better absorbed and so produces less waste.

If he is happy then you are doing all the right things. My DD is a very sucky baby, came as quite a shock after my other 2, so I know how hard it is looking after a demanding 3rd! All I can tell you is it has calmed down now, and I'm so glad that I carried on as, believe it or not, it's so easy now! Have you got a sling, I found mine invaluable (still do) and have now mastered the art of feeding in it, which not only means I can get on with other things but also saves times, bit tricky at the beginning, but once you get the hang of it, it's fab.

In terms of milk supply, everyone thinks they don't have enough, but from what you've said about weight gain and nappies, it sounds like you've got plenty! When he gets a bit bigger he will get better at getting milk from you so the feeds won't be as frequent or as long - hopefully!

Anyway, just wanted you to know how great you are for giving your baby such a great start! Well done.

9oz in two weeks is fine afaik.

Weight gain is a horrid thing and one of the most stressful aspects of breastfeeding. DD lost 14% of her bodyweight and i had to do the whole feed, express top up malarky- it was hell for weeks, she took 6weeks just to regain her birthweight! I am still a bit paranoid about her weight now.

At this stage your boobs are still establishing supply so the more DS feeds the better. I have had a breast reduction too so understand your worries, but at 18weeks DD is still mostly bfed.

I know you have two other DC's but do you think you might be able to try some things to boost supply such as pumping 10times a day, taking fenugreek, doing breast compressions during a feed? They may also help you to feel proactive about feeding.

Having said all that- mixed feeding isn't the end of the world either if you were happy with that - you could introduce a night time bottle of formula and breastfeed the rest of the time. FWIW when I was in top up hell- DD had to have a fair bit of formula while I was establishing supply as sometimes I couldn't get the amount of top up she needed as EBM. She had about 1/3 of her intake as formula but now we are down to less than 1/6 formula -she still has one bottle at night which I am happy to keep as I feel it makes her sleep longer (some people debate this but hey I get 5 hours sleep minimum so I ain't complaining!)

motherbeyond - everything - everything - you say in your post about your baby's feeding his weight gain, his poos is NORMAL

It is normal for poos to slow down from about 4-5 weeks.

It is normal to feed a lot and to gain comfort from feeding.

That weight gain is normal and that drop in centiles is normal.

There is not one word in your post that even hints at 'not enough milk'.

What isn't normal is your distress and stress and unhappiness - and you need a lot of TLC and support and love and encouragement in your life to accept the feeding is just fine. Speak to an HV in private about this, maybe?

Healthy babies do not need weighing a lot. Good practice is to weigh no more often than once a month in the first six months - there is just no need and it is stressful.

Hope you get help.

thankyou for replies so far.
the h.v said 9 oz in 2 weeks wasn't enough and it needs to be more like 12 0z.she's coming to weigh him on wed and then fortnightly.
i think another problem is,he just grazes...he feeds little and often.
h.v said he's supposed to do 15 min suck, suck, swallow..then offer other breast.but he rarely goes more than 5 mins then falls asleep.have tried feet tickling,stripping him,winding him and trying again,but he's never interested.
so i just lead by him.i thoiught that was ok and called feeding on demand,but hv says he must have a proper feed and i have to try and get the feeds 4 hourly!!

that seems an impossible task at the mo.

i couldn't leave him crying.how would i know he wasn't hungry?!

i don't really want to start with the formula.

i did this with my first,as had all the same worries,and gradually the ff took over.

i wanted to feed ds1, and did so until he was hospitalised at 2 weeks,then all old worries were too much to cope with,along with stress off illness,so ff took over.

but this time,i so want to do it...it seems inevitable that i'll fail though

Im no expert, but...

Im sure when I was bf ds I was told here that I was to feed on demand, forget this four hour rule as it was something to do with formula fed babies years ago.

I think you just need to feed him when he wants it.

Im sure someone who knows more will be here to help you soon though.

Good luck, dont give up!

Your HV is, quite frankly, talking out of her ass. Even at 7mo my daughter doesn't - won't - go 4 hours between feeds and there's no way I'd force her to.

I agree that everything you've described sounds normal. It's ok to feed little and often. It's ok to offer the breast for comfort. It's ok to co-sleep.

I think it sounds like you could do with some local support though just to reassure you - do you have a breastfeeding group nearby?

I agree this hv sounds like she's come out of 1901! Feeding on demand is just that, even ff babies are supposed to do that now. Why would you leave your baby to cry when you have the means to comfort him?! I meant to say earlier about the 'using you as a dummy' comment, in another post someone had used this phrase and the response was, 'no your baby is using a dummy as a nipple'. It has stuck with me ever since and I use it all the time now!

The best way to increase/maintain your supply is regular feeds. Pumping etc helps, but I know how hard that is with 3 kids, esp if baby is on you all the time. From the sounds of it you don't need to increase your supply anyway.

If you are brave I'd just tell the hv you don't need ds weighed so often and that you will come to clinic if you have any concerns. I'd definitely try and find a group, I go to La Leche League and they are fantastic - really got me through those early days, it's very liberating to find out that actually what you are doing is right and perfectly normal. Babies don't feed 4 hourly (I eat/drink more than 4 hourly, so why shouldn't my baby?!), they want to be cuddled and comforted by their mums, who wouldn't (even my dh would spend his days snuggled in a big pair of norks, but thats a different story ).

So chin up, you are doing just fine, this hard bit at the beginning will be over soon, and you will have such a warm glowy feeling inside!

Dont stress about wieght gain! The charts in your red book are based on Formula fed babies. They put on weight in an entirely different way than Breast fed babies do.

The HV had a go about DS2s weight gain, and left me feeling miserable and stressed, they wanted me to take him every 2 weeks for weighing. He was never still, he, like your LO fed for 5 mins a time every couple of hours.
I stopped taking him to get weighed, which left me less stressed. He is now a very active and healthy almost 5 YO.

5 weeks is a bit growth spurty too.
Both my DSs could go for more than a week without pooing (then do the massive explod-a-poos).
DD is 5 months and still feeds 5-10 mins every 2-3 hours.

I know it's easy for us to say don't worry, but please don't! Everything you have said sounds so normal for that age.

I also agree with one of the other posters about getting a sling. It's great for keeping hands free to deal with the other DC, but also keeps baby feeling close and contented.

tiktok i think i worry about milk supply for a few reasons,think the breast op is the main one.
then when i had my dd,i was the only one in my nct group who seemed to struggle with feeding.
the other babies just latched on and glugged away for 20 mins!
you couldn't hear my dd drinking,it just seemed like she was sucking without any liquid going down.
then another friend said she thought my dd cried cried a lot because i didn't have enough milk to satisfy her ,she had a baby the same age and was another one who found it easy.
also,i tried to express (tried 3 different expressors)and the milk just dripped out.

my friend was v.helpful and said "ohh,i get 8 oz in 5 mins..it just GUSHES out!!"thanks!

mu dh tries to be supportive,but his mum ff 5 children,so he thinks if it's upsetting me,i should do same.
my mum b.f 2 children and she says i'm doing great but comments he is on a lot and worries it's having a detrimental effect on my other children,especially my 2 year old, who's starting hitting my 4 year old.

i think the worrying over the feeding,the lack of sleep and the behaviour issues ,are really taking it's toll on me

sockmonkey, really?that has given me a little ray of hope.if your baby has fed for 5 mons off one breast,do you put her back on the same one another couple of times to make sure she gets the fore and hind milk and empties the breast?
i worry about that as well (unsuprisingly!)

i have ordered my 3 rd sling,which will hopefull arrive today,im really hoping it will be my saving grace.

also,tiktok..i am usually a really positive,confident person.i know i sound needy,and emotionally fragile.perhaps i am,but only in this aspect of my life.im usually pretty tough, honest.. and dh does look after me,i think he's just bemused as to why it matters so much to me.he's there for cuddles and pep talks though.

it's just as if nothing anyone says can convince me i've got enough milk.

i'm scared to use the expressor incase hardly any comes out and it compounds my fears

Looking back at my difficulties feeding, I reckon the stress was affecting my let down. Might that be happening to you - especially when you try to express?

Silly HV aside, the weight gain sounds pretty good. And there are a lot of snacky babies out there - it's by no means unusual. Seems to me the priority would be getting you sitting somewhere comfortable and having some nice feeds where you feel relaxed and peaceful.

Also I'm sure you know this perfectly well, but I was surprised by the difference drinking an extra 500mls of water a day made.

At 5-6 weeks with DS I was in tears and would have given him formula if he'd have taken it; in the end he ended up bf to 38 months!

Your HV is giving bad advice telling you that he "needs to" be putting on 6oz a week. And to combine a demand for greater weight gain with a demand that you feed less often seems eccentric.

Some babies do do lots of little snacky feeds for a good part of the day; that was one of the things that drove me to despair with DS, because not only was it exhausting but I was sure we just weren't doing it right. Now I know it's a perfectly normal pattern, that there's not a magic point at which "foremilk" turns into "hindmilk" and that overall a baby who has lots of little snacky feeds will take in just as much milk, in just the same proportions of various nutrients, as a baby who has fewer longer feeds.

Please please please don't worry about having enough milk. I do think this weekly weighing we do (after the first 6 weeks or so) is very counter productive

I left to spend 6 months in the US when DS was 9 weeks old and there they do 1 month, 3 months and 6 month checks and that is it.

That isn't great for a very new newborn but tbh for me it was great as I just stopped worrying about his weight when we got there as I couldn't weigh him very easily as they don't have the HV and clinic we have in the UK.

DS was weeing normally and pooing every week or so (normal in a bf baby that age - though not one who is less than a few weeks old) and he was growing and seemed fine. He was thinner than a lot of other babies I saw but that is him. Now at 5.5 years old he is still very light. No-one in the States said he needed to put on a specific amount every week. I did manage to weigh him sometimes and there were occasions when he put on 2oz in 2 weeks which isn't very much at all but I am assuming he then put on a load the following 2 weeks.

When we got back Ds was nearly 9 months old and I weighed him to find he was exactly on the 9th percentile (where he had been when we left).

Your baby is getting to the stage where he has put on the weight he needs to in the first few weeks and has got past the most difficult bit of having latching problems etc

Just persevere a bit more and try not to worry about individual weeks weight gain.

Also just to add that ds was not an easy baby to feed, I couldn't hear any swallowing, he would feed for 50mins minimum at 5 weeks and then need a feed again an hour later. I was constantly feeding every 2.5 hours for months really and when 1 hour of that is actually feeding and changing, burping that doesn't leave much time for anything else.

Gradually at around 4 months old his feeds reduced to 20 mins or so and then eventually only 10 mins or so at about 6 months old

He was often fussy at the breast as well. I wouldn't say I found bf easy to do but it all worked out in the end.

Please don't worry, as tiktok says, it all sounds normal. Dd was exactly the same at that age, snacky feeds, dozing off ... I was also given the willies by a hv who said she wasn't gaining weight fast enough.

I had thrush and mastitis too. Try not to worry, keep going and it will start making sense soon.

Do you have anyone in rl who can hold your hand through this?

umf yes, i think it does effect the let down...sometimes he'll have been on for ages until i feel it.

this is really helping to reassure me...and he has just done a massive poo!he seems happier now too.he's having a feed but keeps coming off and looking at me.

he doesn't seem bothered,sort of just licks the nipple and rolls it around in his mouth.
i must go to a support group,it's just a matter of organising us all(no mean feat at the moment!) and getting the nerve to walk in and talk.

mrsgordonfreeman..yes,we both had thrush.the hardest part of that was i had to apply the cream to my nipples x3 a day and wash it off before a feed,well, he is rarely off my boob..so getting cream on and letting it sink in before he wanted on again was nigh on impossible

Stop weighing him, your HV is talking crap.

Sometimes DS2 feeds for a minute or so and sometimes (bedtime for instance) he can go for over an hour. When he is done he either pops off (and isn't interested in popping back on) or goes to sleep.

On the let down - I found (though I was too dazed to really think about and use it then) that when (at the end of long, miserable feeding evenings) I finally gave up and slumped into bed to feed him there, the milk would come nicely. Resting and taking care of yourself and finding comfortable places to feed sooo important here. As everyone's said, he's obviously getting enough milk, but could be happier experience for you.

On the licking and on and off the nipple thing - I remember reading something about different types of feeders (someone more knowledgeable, please come along and tell more!). That type was called a gourmet feeder, who enjoys the anticipation and contact and whole sensory experience of feeding. It can be annoying, presumably especially for a busy mother with other DCs, but as long as he seems happy AFAIK it's not a worrying thing.

I managed to get fluconazole tablets from the gp, which cleared the thrush beautifully.

You're doing the right thing by asking for advice here, btw, I could not have managed it without tiktok.

It sounds like you're doing brilliantly. I'd be very happy with 9oz in a fortnight, it's what my daughter was doing at 5 weeks and now she's a bit older she's gaining 2lb a month. I'd also not worry about lack of poo - I'm sure breastfed babies are meant to absorb alot of it so going a week or even 10 days between poos isn't meant to matter.

I'd listen to TikTok and ignore your health visitor - she sounds like she's stuck in the 1940s.

to be fair to the hv, she's very nice and has been supportive,if not a bit overbearing...but i do fing this new advice to feed 4 hourly contradicts her earlier advice,which was to let him suckle at will.
also,she freaked me out when she weighed him and wasn't pleased with weight gain and immediately got her book and and started scheduling more weigh in's to monitor him.

that's when i looked at my shoes for a very long time then blubbed.i'd rather die than be emotional in public (as then people make all kinds of assumptions about you!) but i've just been ground down by it all and am sooooo tired!

motherbeyond - just wanted to add my tuppenceworth as I could have posted what you did a few months ago.

I have also had a breast op, and was absolutely convinced I didn't have enough milk from day 1. I thought I would try and at least feed DS for 3 weeks, and then switch to ff because there was no way I could sustain bf...

DS gained well in the first 2 weeks but then dropped from 75th to 50th centile in just over a week. I was horrified, and actually had sleepness nights thinking I was starving him to death. I tried expressing but like you didn't get much out, and it came in drops rather than gushing out. At this point I nearly gave up bf, but a visit to a bf counsellor convinced me to keep going for a bit longer. I set a new target of 6 weeks.

Fast forward many weeks...DS is now 5 months old and still exclusively bf, and has clung on to the 50th centile. His weight gain has never been particularly high but he does gain something every week, and wees and poos are fine. Most importantly, he is happy, healthy and alert.

I now finally feel I can make it to (at least)6 months and the worries have stopped.

You can do it too. Like others have said, if it makes you feel better you can do things to keep your supply up - I take fenugreek capsules. No idea if it does anything but makes me feel more confident.

All the best.

Just to reassure you, I exclusively fed DD and could never express more than an ounce in about twenty minutes. I also never felt a let down, and that was in 3 and a half years of breastfeeding.

Hope you are feeling better motherbeyond