Apparently I am doing it all wrong

[Saucepanman]

Have been trying to start this thread all day. Have an 8 day old ds, who was born via section. We were discharged on day 2 and sent back on day 5 due t his jaundice and having lost 13.5% of his birth weight. We stayed in overnight under phototherapy lamps and came home Sunday. All good so far.

Have 2 other dcs, we had lovely day yesterday chilled out at home, taking baby for first walk etc. He is breast fed, and yesterday I felt had really got into my stride with it- he was more alert, content, feeding well etc. He then had a brilliant night where we could actually put him down and even got a bit of sleep. Have previously bf dd for 11m so quite happy that I knew what I was doing.

ANYWAY community midwife comes out to day and basically bollcks me for pretty much everything. My positioning was wrong, latch was wrong- I was even winding him wrong ffs.Her manner was v abrupt and I felt gutted. She said I should offer both breasts at each feed and then express too. Baby should have 20-30 mins on one breast to empty it, then a bit of the other side. Also I should not feed more than 3 hourly as it takes 2 hrs for the breast to refill. I had been feeding on demand which seemed to be working. She even moved the pillows as I was not supporting myself properly

As yet I have not been able to express after feeding as feeds are taking longer and ds is wanting to feed more than the set 3 hours.

Anyway feeling really down and low in confidence, I thought I had it right this time. Does any/all of this sound right? It wasn't what I thought I knew about breast feeding. She has inferred I must get his weight up or he will be readmitted. Feel a very shit mum indeed

Quick update- Gabriel was weighed yesterday and had put on 90g since Thurs so nearly 4oz- yay! I was most impressed, mw less so In the literature from the hospital there is an NHS breastfeeding booklet which says, amongst other things, that one way to tell they are getting enough milk is if they start to put weight on AFTER THE FIRST 2 WEEKS. Also some info re jaundice which says bf babies may have jaundice for up to 10 weeks. Am going to show these leaflets to the next "concerned" mw to raise the issues.

Have got faffy-sounding HV coming tomorrow- joy! Then either hv/mw thurs to reweigh Gabes. I am 99% certain he is fine, he is eating and pooing loads, awake more and v alert. I am struggling to get much milk out when expressing- 4oz sun, 3oz yesterday and so far 1.5oz today. Oh and just for fun, I started bleeding again yesterday, so back out with the giant maternity pads and considering whether it was bad enough to go to hospital. It's stopped again today, so it may have been because I hoovered up on Sunday and was generally more mobile than I had been.

Spent all morning in bed (me and Gabe) due to bad night, but since midday have lost count of number of feeds, pretty constant. Does that sound ok?

Saucepan - you have had a variety of advice from the HPs involved in this and your head must be spinning

From what you say, little Saucepanboy had a sticky start, and it is not at all unusual for things to take a little while to really get going. It's perfectly reasonable that his weight and health might be monitored a little more closely, but everything you say today sounds fine. His weight has clearly turned a corner, and I would wonder why you are still expressing, if you are confident he's feeding better and often - he needs to take at least both sides at every session so both breasts get lots of stimulation...better just to feed him rather than expressing, to be honest.

To be fair to your HPs, weighing is prob a good idea but not if it's served up with poor info. Weighing needs to be done on correctly calibrated scales, on a flat surface, with a nekkid baby.

Hope things continue to go well

Hey Saucepan - Good news re: weight gain. 90g over 4 days is fab, so something's going right. (I've just finished a BF peer supporter course and was told a newborn will gain, on average, around 20g per day)

Glad TikTok has arrived to talk good sense - She's right, as ever . I know that once you've had a difficult start with HCPs it's easy to be a bit dismissive/irritated with them, but after a slow start to Gabriels weight gain it is important to keep an eye on it for a short time, just to make sure things continue onwards & upwards!

Will you be able to get to your BF group tomorrow? It's always nice to have real life support too .

So glad things are improving.

Oh, and all day in bed sounds wonderful - as does the constant on/off feeding - he's 2 weeks old now, right? Growth spurt!

Quick update before major feeding session- ridiculous HV came today and weighed baby, he had put on 30g since Mon so that's 120g in a week- I was pretty pleased, she seemed unimpressed as "he is not back to birth weight". Quick question, should I be expressing as well or not? No clear answer from MWs or HVs and as Gabriel has mammoth cluster feed sessions I am finding it hard to find the time to express.
TIA

Oh, and I keep re-starting bleeding, again MWs all thoroughly uninterested and suggesting going to GP. A few have said it's due to the breastfeeding, the uterus contracts more. Should I be worried about this? It's not that heavy, but heavy enough for me to feel it happening (TMI sorry)

Things have continued to go well, Saucepan - again, it is reasonable for them to continue to check things. I can't see a reason for you to express - things are fixing themselves now. The bleeding? If the midwife is not concerned then it's prob normal - bleeding does 'surge' from time to time, and it's not a perfectly-ordered fading to nothing. As she says, if you are worried, see your doc. She's prob said this as you could prob see your doc quicker than you'd see a midwife at this stage - she may not have intended to alarm or confuse you.

Thanks tiktok, that's very reassuring. I agree re GP, and I haven't been bec I am not that worried. Also, having had 2 fairly major PPHs in my previous c-sections, I know this doesn't feel alarmingly serious. I appreciate the need to weigh him regularly, just wish they didn't look so prophet of doom when actually he's gaining weight. I'm a worrier- largely due to my obstetric history- and I need no encouragement on that front! I am currently fixating as to whether he might have thrush, I did ask HV today but got no answer either way.

btw tiktok after your first reply to me on here, I told both my mum and DH "tiktok says this so this is what I am doing" and they both knew what I was talking about and agreed with me! Your rep preceeds you

Grrr

MW came today- Gabriel only put 20g on since Thurs despite some mammoth feeding sessions. She was still concerned re jaundice- I declined to be referred to jaundice clinic. However since her visit he has been v sleepy so I asked my mum to get some advice- she works at the hospital where I delivered, and very closely with Head of Midwifery and Paeds. They said it would be a good idea to be checked, so we are heading back there this evening, with him and me possibly staying in. No idea what to expect, dreading it. V v upset. Oh and he has thrush to boot

oh saucepanman that is worrying for you . i really hope it is ok. you are going to the right place to get help.

Hi Saucepan, How did the clinic go? Hope you & Gabriel are OK?

Hello MrsK and everyone, we are hanging in there, despite still being given the doom and gloom routine from the midwives!

We were readmitted last Monday, and stayed overnight. Gabriel had blood tests for liver and kidney function, sodium levels etc. All were fine. I actually had some helpful breastfeeding support rather than the previous MW mixed messages, and I used the electric pump to express. Tues am they weighed him and said he had put on 40g since Mon- of course he hadn't, so MW scales were prob wrong. Apparently the ridiculous woman from monday told the hosp he was floppy and failing to feed which is why they asked me in straight away- had they realised this was not the case we could have gone in Tues, which would have been less upsetting all round. We were discharged and told to keep feeding. Thurs another mw came, weighed him and he had put on 110g since Mon- I was elated, she was still muttering about him not being back to birth weight.

She has been back today, given me the 3rd degree about whether I am expressing. Now, I did find that using the electric pump boosted my supply so am planning on getting one. Today he had put on 40g, she was not happy with this. I pointed out that's 150g in a week, so 6oz, which I think is good. Gabriel has been unsettled last few days/nights- today I pretty much fed him between 8-3, stopping only for school runs. However it is hot here, and also thought it could be a growth spurt. After casting a gloomy shadow over things, she then proceeded to discharge us, so I am unsure as to whether she is concerned or not!

I was wondering if I could quickly canvas opinions re electric breast pumps- which one do you think is best? Originally was going to get Tommy Tippee but itr has bad reviews, now thinking medela. TIA

I'm still puzzled about why you are expressing, Saucepan. The baby's fine, feeding well, gaining weight normally....why do they think you need to express??

I don't know! MW this am said because he is not back to birthweight and his weight gain is in their opinion slow, I need to express and give him the EBM. I was going along with it only because I felt it increased my supply rather than any specific benefit to his weight gain- he only had 2x1oz top ups in the last week so I dont think that will have had any effect. After using the electric pump I felt a significant increase in the let down relex which is obviously reassuring. Would you not bother with an electric pump tiktok? And do you think his weight gain is ok?

Just to add- am discussing this with DH whilst posting, we agreed that I am only doubting my supply because he has been feeding constantly the last few days and waking a lot in the night whereas a week ago he was goign 6-7 hours in the night (but only after a mammoth cluster feed session beforehand). Am very confused!

I don't know, either, Saucepan!

Expressing won't do any harm, except it's a hassle.

Maybe it's needed, maybe it isn't....sounds like they need to convince you it's worthwhile.

He's gaining and it sounds like he's gaining well, so you've turned a corner in that respect. Yes, he's not back to birthweight yet, but if he keeps gaining the way he is now it won't be long, will it?

I can understand why you might doubt your supply (been there, done that ) as your confidence has probably been quite undermined what's happened so far, but the fluctuation in Gabriels feeding habits could just be due to a growth spurt/hot weather/just the fact that babies are a bit random sometimes .

If you're looking to get an electric pump I can heartily recommend the Ameda lactaline I found it worked really well & being a double pump reduces the time you need to mess about with it (I was expressing after most feeds for several weeks due to poor weight gain with DD and it took 5-10 mins total rather than 10 mins each side to get a few oz). I've also heard lots of good things about the Medela Swing though.

Glad to have an update - pleased things are on the up.

Try not to stress too much. It all sounds so conflicting. DS didnt gain any weight for 6 weeks!!!! However he was well in himself, sleeping well, but not too much! Alert, smiling, no sunken fontanelle, good colour, seemed satisfied after feeds - I mught add I fed him constantly! And plenty of wet nappies, some dirty, sometimes a bit green

I am still feeding him now at 16 weeks, he's doing great! But he is my 4th, so I was able to be confident that he was well

Get the thrush treated pronto btw.

Have just re-read entire thread for perspective....

This was supposed to be a happy ever after update, as Gabriel hit birth weight last week at 5 weeks old. Was thrilled. Then at weekend we both got thrush, I have been in agony. Both being treated and his has visibly cleared, mine still ongoing.

THEN today been weighed and lost 3.2oz [sob]. Totally dejected. even mum and dh are questioning why and I feel like everyone is suggesting there is something amiss with my milk supply. Also he has been awake pretty much continually 10-10, though sleeping now, and for most of yesterday. Nursery nurse who came to weigh v nice and said not to worry too much, may be a blip, but I am worrying. So p'd off, it is ruining the newborn days and I want so much to enjoy him [pathetic snivel]

Still pooing/weeing, alert, fontanelle ok etc. Not smiling much yet, he is 6 wks old now. Did get a medela mini electic pump which is excellent, but not pumped for 10 days due to feeding more. Have not been getting let down reflex so much since the onset of thrush, but he still seems content when feeding, though sometimes as if he cannot grasp the nipple.

I don't know what to do, any ideas please? Am starting to bore myself now, and getting the feeling from some people in RL that it's all my own making, I wouldn't be worrying if he was bottle fed, and I am finding it hard to be able to explain why I want to continue to breastfeed, when i really do.

Thrush could explain the weight loss, I guess ... but 3.2 oz is quite a bit. He's lost 3.2 oz since when? (And were all weighings on the same scale? Because even with elecronic ones, it makes a difference!)

If he's on the breast all the time, he could be boosting your supply, or his latch could be bad. How are your nipples feeling?

Poor you saucepanman You've had a hard time of it haven't you. But don't feel that you ever have to explain to anyone why you want to continue breastfeeding.

I too, was determined to breastfeed and despite a failure to thrive baby, am still bf at 8.5 months. Sorry, don't know about the weight loss but just wanted to add my support. Does your hospital have a lactation consultant/infant feeding specialist you could get RL help from?

badger I am waiting for the breastfeeding midwife to ring me back. Thanks for the support, am feeling more positive after some sleep.

NQC I didn't realise it was quite a bit but I guess it is. It is over 8 days that he lost it. Not sure if same set of scales- apparently the clinic has 3 and they just pick up whichever are first to hand. My nipples feel ok, sore with the initial latching on but only since the onset of the thrush.

Thanks both for replying

Shameless bump...

She's off her rocker. If you're feeling good about things then you should continue on as you were, after all it's your baby not hers . As others have said breasts are never really empty and but I do know from personal experience that expressing was nigh impossible for me at this stage. As for offering one or two breasts...I think that's a matter of preference especially at this early stage, when they need more perhaps offering both to keep the boobs looking balanced?? (this is what I did or I'd have been embarrassingly lop-sided)

But do make sure you're supported when feeding, but if you're comfortable then you will be I think.

Congrats on the babe!

Just to let you know, HV returned from holiday today and was straight round to weigh Gabriel- he has seemingly put on almost a whole pound in 6 days So good news!