Apparently I am doing it all wrong

[Saucepanman]

Have been trying to start this thread all day. Have an 8 day old ds, who was born via section. We were discharged on day 2 and sent back on day 5 due t his jaundice and having lost 13.5% of his birth weight. We stayed in overnight under phototherapy lamps and came home Sunday. All good so far.

Have 2 other dcs, we had lovely day yesterday chilled out at home, taking baby for first walk etc. He is breast fed, and yesterday I felt had really got into my stride with it- he was more alert, content, feeding well etc. He then had a brilliant night where we could actually put him down and even got a bit of sleep. Have previously bf dd for 11m so quite happy that I knew what I was doing.

ANYWAY community midwife comes out to day and basically bollcks me for pretty much everything. My positioning was wrong, latch was wrong- I was even winding him wrong ffs.Her manner was v abrupt and I felt gutted. She said I should offer both breasts at each feed and then express too. Baby should have 20-30 mins on one breast to empty it, then a bit of the other side. Also I should not feed more than 3 hourly as it takes 2 hrs for the breast to refill. I had been feeding on demand which seemed to be working. She even moved the pillows as I was not supporting myself properly

As yet I have not been able to express after feeding as feeds are taking longer and ds is wanting to feed more than the set 3 hours.

Anyway feeling really down and low in confidence, I thought I had it right this time. Does any/all of this sound right? It wasn't what I thought I knew about breast feeding. She has inferred I must get his weight up or he will be readmitted. Feel a very shit mum indeed

If you have any concerns about supply, then offering both breasts at a feeding session is a good idea (or even going back to the first side after the second side). But not in a "precisely this long on this side and then switch" manner, and so far as I can see pretty much everything else she said was unmitigated tosh. And plenty of women do fine offering one side at a time, so if that works for you and your DS and your supply is fine then no need to mess with it.

Your midwife sounds like she's talking complete bollocks.

However, I would be a bit concerned about the weight loss and jaundice - generally that's a sign that the baby isn't (or wasn't) feeding well.

Alert and feeding well is good. But, just to check - how is his poo? How many times has he pooed in the last 24 hours (counting anything as big as a 50p piece as a poo)?

saucepanman - I've only got a min, but wanted to repost this link which I posted on ante-natal thread a while back Cue Feeding.

The mw is indeed talking bobbins about needing to time feeds. As NQC says, wet and dirty nappies and a happy baby are much better indicators of whether he is getting enough milk or not.

That advice is so crap that I actually think it might be worth calling her boss/the hospital/whatever and making a complaint!

I would refuse to see her again and insist that they send someone with half a fucking clue next time.

Only got a sec, thanks for all replies/advice. I am indeed familiar with kellymom and will reaquaint myself with it later.

NQC I brought 6 nappies downstairs with me a min ago, from a 10 hr period, each with a bit of yellow poo and lots of wee . He was awake 11-4 and fed lots during that time

Will read/update more later, thanks again

Saucepan, you are doing a fantastic job and your lovely son sounds like he's thriving.

For what it's worth, I fed my daughter for 15-16 months (she's 18 months and I already can't remember when we weaned) and I never fed from both breasts except during growth spurts. Other people always do. You do what you're doing, and he'll keep growing and enjoying you, and everything is going to be fine.

Bloody midwives, I am really cross that people are allowed to give information like that.

IGNORE HER!!!!

I remember being told by a midwife that my latch was wrong, position wrong etc, etc. I smiled politely and didn't point out that this was my 3rd bf child, and I had already managed perfectly well with the 1st two, feeding for over 10 months with each. Silly moo. x

There is a video somewhere of Jack Newman helping a new mum with breastfeeding and he told her that there is a correct way to do it but if he saw a lady in the street feeding her baby in either the wrong position or not the best latch, but that it was working for her he wouldn;t say anything because if her and the baby were happy it really didn't matter.
Ignore her!

I'm pretty sure DD2's latch was/is a bit suspect, but she always put on plenty of weight, seemed content after a feed and didn't hurt my nipples - so who cares if we didn't look like the perfect breastfeeders? Shes 8 months now and and still thriving and loving her boobs! She rarely took both breasts. If its working for you and your baby ignore mw.

Ignore her - she is obviously in the wrong job. If baby is gaining weight then by definition she is getting enough milk and you doing it right.

your situation sounds very similar to my own- only difference being i was on mat leave from my job as a bloody midwife!!!
Baby also lost 14% of birthweight/very jaundiced/em c/s...anyway we were pretty much told the same by our comm m/w, positioning/attatchment poor, feed 3 hrly&express blah blah.
Anyway just wanted to say that you are doing really well and things will get better, my poor wee thing only started puting on weight day 10 and had only gained 10gms by day 14, when we eventually transferred to h/v.
Dont know if you had c/s last time but i had normal delivery and found that milk supply very delayed this time...i.e day 8, same with baby blues etc etc, so could be same scenario for you and hopefully things will start turning around over the next few days for you.
the reason for offering 3 hrly feeds is to help the jaundice situation and this is pretty standard advice, demand feeding is fine when no other complications but babies are sleepy with jaundice and therefore could be not as demanding as more alert/active babies, also the expressing after is to help milk suply as often babies who are jaunduced feed with less gusto than 'well' babes.
Am sure by another few days you will be back in your stride, good luck x

OMG! I know this post is a few days old, but I just had to write.....Has this lady had any breast feeding training at all!?

Never, ever heard of expressing as well as feeding if it isn't necessary, especially this early on.

If it is working for you both then it sounds like you are doing it all right.

Keep up what you are doing and get advice if you think you need it...not the other way round....stupid, blinkin midwife!

Quick update...

Bossy MW rang yesterday, to ask how feeding was going- I said "fine thanks" and that was the end of the call!

Another MW came today to re-weigh Gabriel. She immediately said she didn't think his weight or jaundice looked too bad- which made me wonder what bossy MW had told her! However when we weighed him he has lost 20g from 2 days ago. Admittedly this isn't much, but am gutted as have been feeding loads- as much as poss- also managing to express a couple of ounces after feeds. Today he's been hard to rouse to feed, I am so worried he will end up being readmitted. I think he is fine but I know from past experience the community MWs take no chances. Ds2 and dd both had jaundice- comm mws sent dd back in to day unit at 2 weeks to have her levels checked and they did loads of invasive traumatic tests on her. She cried so much she burst all the blood vessels around her eyes.

Anyway I know I have plenty of milk and that ds is drinking it, but it's still stressing me out!

I wish it could all go right, just once!

Saucepan - Your situation sounds very similar to what happened to me. DD (2nd child) was feeding regularly and swallowing milk from what I could tell but kept losing weight/remaining static. Didn't regain birthweight till wk 6.

What solved it was a very slight change to her position & attachment. Are you able to visit a BF counsellor to get your attachment checked? It may be that your DS is not transferring milk as well as her should. And of course, if that continues, it will affect your supply. Good that you are expressing after feeds as if it is the case that you are suffering from poor transference of milk then the expressing will be helping to keep your supply going in the short term till you get things fixed. Are you offering what you've expressed as a top up later in the day? (This may help him build up his energy/recover from jaundice which will then help him to feed more effectively)

You say DS is having small yellow poos - are they really really yellow? And bigger than a 50p? They need to be really yellow, and not orangey coloured - this was a sign in my DD that no-one had picked up on but that I've since been told should have been a flag to suggest all not well.

Please try and get along to a BF clinic (not easy, I know, with 2 DC) and get some specialist real life advice (i.e. not from that MW who gave you such rubbish advice in the first place - Restricting feeds by duration and quantity? FFS!)

MrsKitty several mws have checked latch- just counted up and it's 7- and said it is good/fine. What is poor transference? [panic][thick]

Re the poos, they are yellowy brown and the right size I think.

[Stressy]

Saucepan - Thing is, a latch can look fine, but if baby isn't gaining weight then something's being missed. Unfortunately, (as you have already discovered) many MWs do not have a great deal of training in breastfeeding and may not be spotting something that is causing the issue, or be able to suggest solutions. (In my case it was the tiniest tweak to the position in which I was holding DD which seemed to make the difference - her latch was fine, but the position she was in was making it difficult for her to transfer milk effectively - she was getting milk but we think it was too much foremilk, so she was keeping hydrated & weeing/pooing but not gaining weight.)

Please get to a BF support group / BF Counsellor so that they can assess you properly and, if needed, get a plan of action in place. Your MW/HV should be able to tell you of any in your area. Otherwise contact LLL/BfN/NCT helplines for advice.

I'm assuming your DS has no health issues (apart from jaundice) and has been checked for tongue tie?

20g by the way, is a tiny amount, and presumably the other MW was using a different set of scales as had been used previously? You need to make sure when DS is weighed that it's done on a level surface with the same scales if possible.

Hmm, it does sound like things are ok. I wouldn't worry too much about the 20g, if it was different scales.

But yes please go see a BF person for help with P+A. Not a midwife - as you have noticed, some of them have no fecking clue about BF, while thinking they know it all.

I find this website has a good list of BF dropins around the country, assuming you are in the UK.

Thanks MrsK and NQC. There is a breastfeeding drop-in near me, which bossy mw ordered me to go to- however I won't be able to get there for nearly 2 wks as it's thursdays and dh working this week (I can't drive yet after section.)

Apart from day 4 when they were like rocks, my breasts don't feel hard- there seems to be plenty of milk though. Yesterday Gabriel was feeding much better, and for longer each time, then I woke him at 5.30 as it had been a couple of hrs, and he proceeded to cluster feed till midnight, then again 1.30-4am. He had 2x2oz ebm top ups during th day but I coudn't get any more due to all the feding. Does this sound ok?

Mild panicking bump, as just tried to express and couldnt even muster 2oz.......

try not to panic - i have a 20lb DS who is 8mo ebf and sometimes i cannot get 2oz, particularly if he has been feeding a lot. a baby is usually much more efficient at getting the milk anyway. try and chill - if your DS is regularly 'emptying' your boobs, supply will catch up - you will produce more tomorrow / next day.

and the milk from an 'empty' breast is fattier - good for putting on weight .

Hey Saucepan,

Sounds good. How is he inbetween feeds? Does he seem quite contented after feeds for a little while? Is he feeding regularly? Waking more (and staying awake during) feeds?

Don't panic about being unable to express this afternoon - if you are stressing about it & over-thinking it it can affect your ability to express - just because you're only able to express a little doesn't mean there's not more there.

Is there anyone else that could take you along to the BF group? Friend/relative?

When's Gabriel due to be weighed next?

Sounds like you're doing a fab job - keep going, you can do it!

Thanks Ruby and MrsKitty

Last nappy was very yellow (tmi?!)and he seems to have fed better I think. He is pretty alert and awake, as I said last night 5.30-12 so must have plenty of energy for that! Gabriel is getting weighed here on Monday by the nicer team leader MW. Fingers crossed for him, as unfortunately everyone I know is on holiday this week so no lifts to bf drop in, but will def go next week and will also ring one of the support organisations, have rung NCT in the past.

I have breastfed 4 babies and her advice is rubbish. Do as you were doing on demand and I have never known a young baby have that much and go for that long!

Fingers crossed for Monday - let us know how it goes