baby losing weight; tears of anxiety flowing

[forevermore]

i have a 9 day old baby born 4 weeks early and weighing 6lb 3. Now weighing 5lb 4oz and been told to try to hand express and top up the suckling to make sure she puts weight on. Only managed to hand express 5mls!!!!!
feeling really exasperated and 'down'. Didn't want to formula feed, but feel like if she loses anymore will be forced to!
is this weight loss really serious. should i be formula feeding now?
any advice really appreciated. thanks

Whenever she wants it, for as long as she wants. If that's 5 mins, every hour, do it, until her appetite increases.

Defintley go to bed with her for a day or two; take the tv, phone, loads of crappy mags etc.You will benefit from the rest as well as you both getting lots of opportunities to feed. (You have just given birth!) Seriously, tiredness in mom can mean milk supply drops so resting is imortant.

My dd2 dropped a lot of weight after birth (she was heavy at birth though (9lb) not like your babe). However at 7 mo, she is STILL only 15lbs and looks like a 4mo-er - she's a dot next to other babaies of the same weight.

Try not to top-up if you can -this early it really does often lead to breast milk dying up and full formula feeding.

Good luck. And congrats on your new arrival BTW!

a general rule of thumb is approximately 3 hourly for a newborn I believe .. but really feed her when she wants it ..and at least every 3 hours

good luck

PS mears is a midwife and mum of 4, she knows what she's talking about

Shouldhave said, my dd is tiny but incredibly healthy and VERY active!! Her smallness means she can do stuff other babies take longer to do -she's already getting about where some babies of a similar age don't even sit up yet.

If i remember rightly, in my dd's first few weeks I seemed to be feeding her constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY. She would be awake for 2 or 3 hours, feeding or dozing on & off, then have a nap for 2 or 3 hours, I think pretty much like that. Absolutely exhausting but reading your question "Is every 2 hours enough?" sounds bizarre to me as my dd fed FOR 2 hours!! (As yours has done too from what you said.) In fact I remember feeling panicky reading books about an average routine of "every 2 hours" because it just didn't make sense to me! Hope that makes you feel better, ...or something... As others have said, just keep on & on feeding! hope you've got support, people doing all the other stuff for you & looking after you...

Lots of hugs, keep at it. xx

Babe, just feed feed feed - really, I know both of mine just fed ALL the time, like Lizita's, at that age. I know it is really hard going and you must be so worried, but keep her on the breast. Lots and lots of luck
xxxxxxxxx

Forevermore

Sorry to join this thread late in the day but just had to let you know that I was DESPERATE to BF my DS. He was my second and my DD was taken very poorly when she was 12 weeks old and had to be taken into hospital and operated on. I always felt that if I'd been BF'ing her, she might not have caught the infection hence my determination second time round.

HOWEVER, my DS was also very slow to put weight on and at 4 weeks was still not back to his birth weight. He went from 8lb 8oz down to 7lb 4oz and by 4 weeks was still only back up to 7lb 12oz. On the advice of my HV,I introduced a top up formual bottle and just like everyone has said, within two weeks my milk was drying up, my DS was screaming to have a bottle and I was in bits.

If bottle feeding is what youw ant to do, then go with it. I have now bottle fed both of mine (DD is 7 and DS is four months) and both are happy and healthy. BUT if you really feel strongly about BF'ing, don't introduce the bottle.

I really hope it goes well for you.

Forevermore - has your baby been weighed on the same scales each time? This can make a big difference IME.

It doesn't sound as if your mw is telling you to formula top-up at this stage, so you certainly have a couple of days leeway before you have to worry about formula.

If you have to end up topping-up, then I would suggest giving it as a top-up (ie after a breastfeed) rather than as an additional feed. As her weight comes up you can cut back on the amount of top-up. Formula top-up is not necessarily the death of breastfeeding, though obviously it is better if you can avoid it.

forevermore,
just in case u dont know MEARS is an excellant font of wisdom, and shes contributed to your thread, as are moondog, hunkermunker and hercules great for breast feeding advice.

listen to them and dont be scared, just hold your baby to you and let her suckle , its early early days, u have to everything just ot be with her - enjoy it

oopps
"give up everything just to be with her"

forevermore, I just wanted to add here my experience of breastfeeding. I have a 6 day old ds and am feeding on demand. I keep a "diary" of when he feeds and for how long at each feed, mainly for my own interest, but also so I can see if any patterns are developing.

I can tell you that as of today I have fed him over 90 feeds so far, which works out at more than once every two hours! However he tends to "marathon feed" - feed for 30 mins, five min break, feed for another 30 mins, repeat for three hours (!) - then sleep for up to three hours at a time. If he cries, then I feed him. I am fortunate that dh is at home so he brings me meals and drinks and looks after the dds whilst I languish in bed or on the sofa like some kind of glorified dairy cow ....

Basically - there is no pattern, not at this age anyway. I too was never able to hand express, and dealt the kiss of death to breastfeeding dd2 by introducing "top-up" formula feeds. I let ds feed until he falls asleep, put him in his moses basket, then pick him out to feed again when he cries, be it 5 minutes later or 3 hours later.

Anyway, pick out of that anything you find helpful, but I just thought it was worth adding my experiences to the good advice you have already received.

And try not to beat yourself up about it - you are doing a great job of keeping going at the moment at the point which (to my mind) is the hardest - once you get over this hurdle you will find it all becomes a lot easier

Keep going my dear, it's early days, but stay in touch with the professionals / bf counsellors who are a fount of info.

I know how worrying it is, having had problems getting all 4 of mine to gain weight.

Has she started to gain at all, or is she still losing weight?

Ds2 was hospitalised for poor weight gain, and the Dr told me there were "72 reasons why babies failed to thrive" (presumably not an precise figure) DS was found to have a minor health issue - which was treated and then his weight picked up. But he didn't regain his (75 percentile) birthweight until nearly 6 weeks old, which was terribly worrying.

I know loads of people have been giving you advice, and so I just wanted to let you that you are not the only one.

Keep feeding, don't bother with expressing if it's not working (though the enoremous hospital double pumping thingies you can hire form NCT are much more efficient if your ever need to express)and try hard to enjoy your lovely new baby.

This time passes so very quickly. I hope you get some prctical hands-on advice form someone very soon.

I really syimpathise. I fed my dd with no problems and appraoched ds in the same way. both of mine had mild tongue ties which only my appraoching retiremnt midwife pointed out. this wasn't a massive problem but did mean that the latch had to be just right. I needed nipple shields with ds but weaned him off them after a month or so. I was determined to feed as itmeant more time on the sofa watching soaps. Ds lost 1lb and midwife urged me to wake him up during the night to feed 3 hourly and to give top up bottles of express milk. His weight gain was slow but he was healthy and happy and now is a very robust 4 year old. In the end I stopped getting him weighed and it stopped being an issue.
Stick with it, do nothing else as you need to produce good qualtiy milk and get really good advice from someone who has done it themselves and can check your latch. Good luck

forevermore, congrats on your new babe and tons of sympathy on the weight loss
as the others say, 2 hrs is not too often - my ds is nearly 12 weeks now and 2 hrs is pretty normal for him - he still sometimes feeds more frequently than that!
i agree with everyone else - do avoid the formula if poss. it is very often a route to the end of bf - however, i was able to progress to full bf by 4 weeks after supplementing with formula from about 3 days due to a conglomeration of jaundice, weight loss and ds refusing the breast. i think it took my ds a bit longer to get the knack of latching on. i am not recommending using formula in your case - i had the problem of ds refusing - but should you get desperate and give a bottle, it doesn't have to be the end.

How's it going, Forevermore? xxxxxx

Every two hours is not too often for a newborn, particularly one born early. Our DS was 3 weeks early and we were advised to feed as often as possible, and wake him up if he was asleep. For the first 6 weeks he fed every two hours day and night (often for an hour at a time). We didn't need to wake him, but he had trouble latching properly initially (apparently common with early babies) so was not as efficient as he could have been. After that, time between feeds increased.

Best advice is to try and get a BF counsellor to come and see you feeding if at all possible. If not, try the phone lines for help.

Good luck. Perseverance pays off. Also, many people have the same issues to start off with, so be assured that what you are going through is normal.

Forevermore - I had almost exactly the same experience as you. At three weeks old my baby was barely gaining weight and we were sent to see a paediatrician who told me to express milk to give him more feeds and that if I could not express I MUST give him formula. I was also told to wake him up for feeds every couple of hours. I was further told if he had not gained sufficient weight in 3 days time he would be hospitalised. All this and he was still within the normal weight range!

I was so upset. I couldn't express more than one ml even with a pump. It was a weekend and there was no-one I could call on for expert advice. I was in tears all the time feeling like the worst mother in the universe. I ended up speaking to my mum & my MIL and they both encouraged me to start him on formula so that is what I did. I felt terrible about it at first, it is so drummed into us these days that BF is best (not saying that is wrong) but if you can't do it, don't feel bad about it.

You've been given good advice by others on this thread re breastfeeding counsellors etc but if you do end up using formula don't feel you are doing anything bad. You have done your best for your baby.

Formula shouldn't upset your baby's tummy. If it does, try another one. (Cow & Gate Omneo worked for us). Unfortunately once you start bottle feeding your baby will most likely lose interest in the breast altogether as the milk flows easier from the bottle (well this was my experience but maybe your baby won't be so lazy!)

My baby is now coming up to 11 months old and he couldn't be healthier.

Wishing you and baby all the best and sending you lots of hugs.

well now my baby has been weighed on electronic scales and is5lb 10oz, and poo is changing colour so good signs. also lots of weeing. however she is barely feedng for 20 minutes out of 40 and it is hell to try and wake her up 2 hourly especially at night. i feel if i left her she would sleep for hours!!!!

the HV suggested 2.5 houry would be okay and i stick to her electronic scales only.

also gave her an oz of expressed milk in bottle which she swallowed in one go it seemed, so why th lack of enthusiasm when on the breast???

sometimes she'll feed for up to 2 hors, usually in the afternoon though. but at night i am close to tears, bcause all i kee thinking is baby please suck or else you'll go into hospital and mummy will have a nervous breakdown. Is it wrong to emotionally blackmail one so young!

sometimes my heart breaks when i think of this scenario, but DH says i am over dramatising it all. HV and MW says she s alert and feeding well (when on) and should pick up in no time.

do you think her 20 minutes out of 40 means that she is full? she doesn't cry unless hungry, and doesn't seem to cry after thi 20 orso ins. also i have noticed that boobs are leaking a bitof milk sometimes, so maybe she is just getting more quicker??

i have fallen out wthmy mum over this because she says give er formula or else she'l end up in hospital being tube fed FORMULA!!! i FLIPPED ON HER AND SAID THAT THIS JUST MAKES ME FEEL SO GULITY ABOUT 'TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING' AND THIS SHOULDN'T BE THE CASE.

i am trying to avoid formula unless abisolutely necessary and both HV ad MW have yet to sa i need to do this. just concentrate on technique and frequency and it should sort itself out. i am seeing improvements as mentioned above. is it okay to be perservering, or am i being stupid. should i jut give formula????

sorry for the essay. thanks for all your advice so far, its been a real rock or my emotions.

forevermore, it sounds like your dh and your mother are not being too helpful. They probably think they are helping because they see you upset, probably exhausted and apparently struggling with feeding and they look for a way to help you. I had my mother saying 'of course, if you were bottlefeeding you wouldn't be so tired' etc. It's really hard when the people around you aren't supporting you. Ds had jaundice and was really hard to wake up in the day and I do remember clearly how panicked I felt. If you are into books at all I think that Libby Purves (how not to be a perfect mother) has the best chapter on breastfeeding.

Feeding from the breast is a skill that your baby and you have to learn, unfortunately. It sounds like you are doing brilliantly.

Lots of good signs re weeing, pooing etc. And good that the professionals are with you. Stay with them, ring them often. Hope you have also found some help from the helplines.

God, I really really hope you get the support you need because it is awful when real active support is not available at home.

Hey, she's gained 6oz? that's fantastic! I missed that!

TAKE NO NOTICE OF YOUR MUM. if she is anything like mine she is from a generation where everyone gave bottles and they give b/f advice when really they know f all about it.
your baby is alert,is weeing and pooing and that poo is changing colour.You are doing so well!!
she is so young yet and is used to getting her food on tap without having to think about it( when inside iyswim)its a big thing to learn! for both of you!
keep going, unless you want to bottlefeed( and if you do thats ok too) then just keep feeding her.and try not to worry so much, she'll be fine honestly!
this si bringing back so many memeories of when ds2 was born.he fed, and fed and fed and fed and my nipples were cracked and bleeding and i was engorged and miserable but i consoled myself by thinking @at least i was b/fing'and then his weight dropped!!! i could have cried! i then spent a whole week with him attached( or so it seemed) and he put on a pound in a week.
these are early days,hun,be easy on yourself.

i say' i could have cried'....i did copiously all the time!!

Forevermore, have just seen this thread. Hey, your baby is putting weight on now and that's great . Don't let anyone discourage you, just keep doing what you're doing and maybe, if you haven't already, try some of the suggestions made further down this thread (skin to skin, you and baby to bed etc). My DS1 was a sleepy baby and took 4 weeks to regain birthweight during which time I had more fights than I would care to remember with HV ... we did switch nursing (like Mears suggested), stripped him off to vest (winter at the time),blow on him, even put a piece of cotton wool dampened with cold water to the back of baby's neck at feedtime to give them a jolt into wakefulness. Don't give up - just remember what a good job you're doing.

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