Is Motherhood a form of oppression?

[pinkfizzle]

women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article7070165.ece

I don't think so - and I get a bit sick of breastfeeding is oppressive - blah blah blah...

oh and how convenient that the author has a big stake in publicis - so is incredibly wealthy - so I'm sure she is really concerned about the wage and wealth gap between men and women.

I agree I feel pressured (maybe not oppressed) but the way we are treated is not equal and is not far.

I'm the youngest in my family I have no experience of children at all, yet the Ante-natal classes have given no help at all, it's all just the mothering instinct will kick in when the time comes, didn't even get told any breathing techniques because " when the time comes your will know what to do" and what if I don't know what to do, why leave me hanging on the bases of some animal instinct they expect me to have.

All they do is go on and on about breast feeding and how your kids going to be stupid or die if you don't do it, (now thats what I call bullying). then theres the guilt trip about nappies, well I'm sorry but I'll do what I choose to do, I'm not a slave to the washing machine and washable nappies are not going to save the world while the middle classes who put them on there kids are ferrying the kids around in 4x4's and jetting off around the world on holidays.

Then theres maternity leave I can have up to 12 months off but my other half can only have 2 weeks, where is the equality in that, it should be our choice who stays at home and who doesn't based on financial or practical circumstances not because the state says mothers have to give up there working time.

It's illegal for supermarkets to sell formula milk on special offer as that may encourage the use of it, whats equal about that?.

One of my other half's work mates had a baby, didn't want to breast feed so asked for milk for the baby and was refused told they do not provide formula milk so she had to phone her sister to drive round 24 hour shops and bring some milk ASAP, what is that if not bullying, letting a child go hungry because the mother wants to have a choice.

Can't take your post seriously, Ryoko....not when you say this "All they do is go on and on about breast feeding and how your kids going to be stupid or die if you don't do it" - 'cos you are not telling the truth. No antenatal class ever says that.

Some hospitals ask mothers who are not going to breastfeed to bring in their own formula (just as they ask them to bring nappies, sanpro for mum and other essentials). Ensuring your child has food is basic parenting. Why would a mother who knew this not bring in the necessary formula with her to do it?

I wonder if you've made that story up, too.

I thought that all Hospitals had to have formula due to a number of reasons (mother dies in CB, mother has no milk etc etc)?

The Hospital I was in expected me to have everything for DD, but were still supplying formula to some of the Mums on the ward.

CG - this is true. All hospitals have formula. The few that ask mothers to bring in their own formula if they don't plan to bf still have formula for use in an emergency. If a mother has come in without formula, knowing she is going to formula feed, I am told they will give the mother the formula for one feed and then ask that she arranges for someone to bring her formula after that.

I don't think they would permit a baby to go hungry, for want of a bottle from their emergency stash.

But why would a mother, having been told no formula is supplied, go to the hospital and not pack the formula???

If she gave birth by surprise without time to pack, and ended up without formula for that reason, then the hospital would give her emergency formula (just as they would supply a robe, towel, sanpro...and then ask for further supplies to be brought in from home).

Try going to the parent information sessions at Queen Charlotte's (thats what they call there ante-natal classes).

I've heard everything from breast feeding stops cot death, increases IQ, formula is full of chemicals that cause allergies etc.

Could not believe it when they gave some women 1 and a half hours to preach to us how disposable nappies are ruining the world and we should all use Bum genius washable ones because they are the best re-usable ones and disposables are full of chemicals, as are wipes which are causing the amount of allergies in kids today etc etc.

Parent information session about labour on the other hand consisted of a guy sitting there for 20 mins saying not to worry about it we will instinctively know how to breath and when to push when the time comes and the midwife will support you.

Don't accuse me of not telling the truth I'm 35 weeks gone, this is my first baby and everything I know I read about in Emma's Diary in the first month of pregnancy, every time I go near the hospital I just get nothing but propaganda about breast feeding and nappies with no real information about anything, I'm getting more and more worried about giving birth and what I'm spost to do afterwards

They never told her anything about it, thats why, she assumed they would have it because no mention was made before hand.

she was at a different hospital to where I'm booked to go, they haven't said anything to me about whats provided, after hearing about her I've bought a load of pre-bottled stuff to take in just in case.

And I have to talk them about vaccinations when I go there next, last time I was there they waved a leaflet about and said it had a vaccination consent form in it for BCG that we would have to fill out and bring with us when we give birth otherwise they wouldn't be able to give the baby the BCG, but the leaflet is just a leaflet about the vaccination it doesn't have any consent form in it.

Ryoko, I am sorry you are worried and not getting the information that meets your needs

Antenatal classes should treat parents to be like grown ups, and let them have correct information in an adult way. This means being open and honest about the risks of formula feeding (which do indeed include an elevated risk of cot death, an impact on IQ, and a heightened risk of allergy). This is not the same as saying your baby will die or be stupid if you use formula...which is what you reported your class as telling you.

There is also evidence that disposable nappies are an environmental hazard and this may affect babies, as well. I don't suppose anyone said disposables are 'ruining the world' and your exaggeration does your point no favours.

If you think the information was given to you in a bullying manner, then of course you are right to feel aggrieved.

Because I know you are not right about what you said about your baby dying etc, I can't comment on what you say about the breathing in labour.

Ryoko - you can telephone the antenatal clinic and just ask them if you need to bring in your own formula. You can also ask them to post the consent form out to you.

She did it was an outside person apparently brought in to tell us about the types of the nappies and correct way of putting them on and the like, (the session leader left the room) there was a collection of nappies on the table and a baby doll.

All we got was Bum Genius are great, your killing the environment and causing your baby allergies if you don't use the washable ones, she went off on one about cleaning products for some reason, when she started off about chemicals she couldn't stop going on about the old clean your worktops with Tea tree oil and the like, never demonstrated how to put a nappy on the doll or anything and at the end of it handed us all vouchers for a free sample of Bum Genius nappies.

Woman was a total tree hugger with an obvious biased, when someone mentioned some bamboo nappies she just said how they good but she'd had 3 kids and found Bum Genius are the best .

Only question in my mind was did they know she was going to do that or did she just do that because the session leader left the room .

If you think it was a commercial 'sell' and this person was a rep for this product, then complain to the midwife who organises the classes.

I gave up trying to ring them after 3 days of trying last time I wanted to ask something.

I don't know if my ante-natal clinic is the same as everyone else's, but it's like a really busy GP you can never get through to reception on the phone, you get left sitting around for hours past your appointment then when you see one of the midwifes, it's all like they just rush into a load of questions and box ticking and then send you out to get a ticket to wait for a blood test and then if they don't phone you up that means everything is ok.

I know alot of people on here keep saying about ask your midwife about stuff, I'm wondering if I'm in a really bad place because I've never been able to ask them anything, never get though on the phone, never see the same one twice and they are all ways rushing you to get out so they can see the next person.

Whats the point complaining it will not make any difference whats done is done and the classes are finished. no idea who the midwife was who did the classes anyway never said on any of the hand outs what her name was and there was 2 of them anyway, one of them skipped the first class and went on to the second (because he didn't know anything about the first one and was covering for the other person who was sick) then the other one covered the 2nd class again and 3rd class, she was told that we had done the second one twice and not the first but they said they are too busy to do it again.

I think I ended up booked into the wrong hospital, they are well known, a pregnancy specialists with the most amount of incubators in the country, I think thats the problem I think I should have booked into a more normal hospital.

I think theres too many people going to that place hence the feeling your just getting shoved down a production line instead of helped and supported.

I think they are too in demand for there own good.

I have an appointment on Monday so hopefully I will try again and getting some information of use out of them.

Point of complaining might be to ensure other mothers are not as disappointed and let down as you are....

I'll just leave it until I've given birth I may have more to complain about then just the parent information.

I can't fault the fact the place looks clean which is why I went there in the first place and is still the most important thing to me.

ryoko you can complain online on the Queen Charlotte website.

Out of interest - can I ask whether you are going to breastfeed?

Good luck with your labour.

Good luck.

I think more pseudo science has been written about breasfeeding than almost any other child/baby related topic.

When I said I would be bottle feeding my son, I might as well have told the midwife that I intended to give him a good shake before bathing him in boiling water.

Amothersplaceisinthewrong - but can I ask why you chose to bottle feed?

It's only six months out of your bloody life for God's sake.

Which bits of the science you have heard or read about infant feeding is 'pseudo', amothersplace? I agree there is quite a lot of rubbish written about it - which bits were you thinking of?

From the tone of your post, it sounds as if you don't think it matters how babies are fed....am I right?

Shame you think that. You are perfectly within your rights to choose not to breastfeed, but don't pretend it doesn't matter, now, will you ?

Pseudoscience like "immunofortis", anothersplace?

you know what's oppressive to mothers? Bloody French Feminists who want everyone to be like them. Or sorry, anyone who wants everyone else to be like them. I'm sick of being told what to do by other women. Get lost! Feminism? Be my sister and support my choices or bugger off and shut up.
enough.
ohm ohm ohm ohm

What I hear of French feminism- having to get your figure back for your husband straight after childbirth, rushing back to work asap etc etc- doesn't sound particularly liberating to me. I prefer a model where both mothers and fathers are encouraged to spend time with their offspring.

I believe that bfing is oppressive actually, but not that we shouldn't do it even so. I have been bfing dd for 4 mnths now - ds 9 yrs ago was bfed for 3 wks when I had to stop due to meds.

DD will NOT drink from anywhere but my breast and I'm finding it very constricting and isolating, and find that Dh is less invoved in parenting than with ds.

I think that there is a lot of propaganda spread about bfing these days - not the health benefits which are obvious - but about the ease of bfing v formula, the reduced faffing, the bonding, the fact that it is not less tiring etc.etc. which I think is negating a lot of mothers real struggles.

I would far prefer to see an acknowledgement that it is bloody hard and that bfing mothers will need a lot of help. Partners should be informed that it will be exhausting for the mother. Longer paid maternity leave should be available when bfing (I'm beyond stressed about my return to work when dd is 6 months - what the hell is she going to eat??)

If the difficulties are more acknowledged from the outset, and more help and rights are given to women, we may find it easier to persist with bfing, and won't feel so pressured into trying to "do it all". This will do more to liberate women in my view whilst still giving as many babies as possible the best start.

I may of course be totally wrong - all this night feeding has turned my brain to mush....