No wonder women in our culture find BF difficult, when children are taught that cows "Eat grass and turn it into milk" FFS...

[BertieBotts]

DS was watching something on CBeebies the other day, (I can't remember what it was, TBH) and they were talking about farm animals, and said "Cows eat grass, and turn it into milk!" - is it any wonder that women find it difficult to breastfeed, when this is what we learn about milk production (albeit in a different mammal, but really, it's not that different in reality) during childhood?

And before you write it off as a silly comment in a TV programme - it made me think, and I distinctly remember my form tutor in year 8 telling someone off for calling another girl a cow, saying "I don't know why people think 'cow' is an insult anyway. Cows are very intelligent. They stand around in a field all day and turn grass into milk. Can you do that?" and I remember finding this very insightful at the time despite knowing that mammals feed their young, presumably I knew that they did so with milk, and having been breastfed myself and seen my mum breastfeed my younger sister.

In fact I remember being quite surprised to learn in my teens that cows don't produce milk all the time, and that they are fairly constantly pregnant and have the calves taken off them soon after the birth so that they can be milked. Again, I'm not sure why since I knew that cats, pigs, sheep etc produced milk to feed their young and not at other times. And I am/was not thick, honest

Is it any wonder that we have so many myths floating around about "having to drink milk to make milk" and the like?

It's to do with all their stomachs isn't it?

There's something very odd about the general perception of cows as a species that gives milk - both male and female! For instance here if you scroll down to 'Uder the cow' from Kelloggs adverts, definitely a male, and they weren't on that long ago.

Plus that joke 'What did the first person to milk a cow think he was doing?'

my guess is that she, having lactated herself, knew exactly what she was doing.

It's all rather sad.

I am a reader and not a poster generally but this thread made me think of my 4yr old DS who after a few days watching me nurse his sister said "Mummy, you are just like a cow aren't you" . Luckily 4 months on it has moved on to Mummy, give her your boobie whenever she cries.

OP, sorry I don't really understand. They do eat grass and produce milk. Obviously there's more to it than grass getting 'turned into' milk, but grass is their fuel. Unless you go into the hormones etc to a toddler, that really is it, isn't it?
Like me - I eat cake and produce milk!

well it should surely be cows have calves and make milk.

or even, cows have calves, have the calves taken off them, and make milk because they are pumped and pumped and pumped.

or something.

women make milk because they have babies. not because they eat..crisps or whatever. they could eat crisps and not make milk IYSWIM. and cows can eat grass and not make milk if they haven't had a calf.

I found BF very difficult with my first baby but I have to say I am really struggling to link that difficulty to children being taught that cows eat grass to make milk. Please enlighten me someone!

I'm confused, cows do eat grass and they do produce milk, the fact that they are kept lactating is irrelevant really, even non dairy cows eat grass and produce milk for their calves.
I always thought of it as most other mammals would have a varied diet but cows don't.

I think for cbeebies level that is fine.

laith, I think the OP is linking the fact that Cbeebies give a v condensed version of where milk comes from to the lack of breastfeeding acceptance..

Can't see it myself!

I am struggling to get het up on this one, sorry.
Cbeebies could go into how cows are kept in a permanent lactating state to enable us to have milk on our cornflakes, but I think that may be a bit much for a 2 year old tbh.

I'm a bit confused too.

Cows eat grass. Lactating cows eat grass and produce milk.

Maybe cbeebies should be a bit more honest about things like this. Perhaps Cerrie and Alex could do "visiting the abbatoir" instead of discover and do for the links between programmes. God knows I don't want my children growing up with any fluffy sentimental ideas about animals .

Yes, they could do a theme.
Bob the builder would build the abbatoir, along with killing machines and sinister looking hooks.
I can cook would make offal stew or soemthing
Something Special could teach us the signs
'You sign slaughter'

And the next time an elephant comes to visit Big Cock and Little Cock in their cafe they should take a submachine gun to it, butcher it and then arrange some bits on a plate to look like a smiley face.

I think that the issue is that cows are seen as animals that produce milk, hence the "cow" insults to breastfeeders. When the fact is that they should not be seen as animals that produce milk, as naturally they only produce milk like any other mammal, for their young.

I'm not sure if this is the main issue relating to brastfeeding though, I could think of about 10 more important ones off the top of my head.

liath

also that the grass is seen as central to the milk production, when it isn't really.

Um, I think this is a slightly more complex issue than the cow thing...

I found bfing difficult because NO BASTARD WOULD HELP ME (wasn't mn ing then) and I had no idea how it worked and it fucking hurt. It had flip all to do with the dairy industry on a personal level.

so small children are taught something that is simplified, but basically true, and that makes it hard for women to breastfeed?

Sorry, you really have to be looking to take offence to get worked up about this.

No no. OP has a good point. I was AMAZED when DP trotted out this old chestnut to our kids once. 'Cows eat grass which turns into milk.'

WHAT? Cows give birth, lactate (as do all mammals) and produce milk to feed their young. The calves are taken away and the artificial milking process keeps them lactating until eventually they have to be inseminated again.

That's the real truth - not very palatable for a cbeebies crowd but it's just wrong to say that the grass magically tuns into milk. They could have said the cows need grass to make them strong and healthy and produce good milk. Or they could have said 'Cows give some milk to their babies and have enough left over for us.'

I think I get what you are saying

cows eat grass therefore cows make milk

whereas actually cows have a calf therefore cows make milk

the eating of the grass has feck all to do with the making of the milk

all species make milk its just that cows are easily domesticated

But for heaven's sake, Cbeebies is not there as the sole means of educating your kid, is it? (please say no)

You could always, you know, tell them about the dairy industry yourself!

I don't really see the problem here and trust me, I am very good at seeing problems atm. (mad pg woman emoticon)

Grass doesn't make milk??

Why did I eat all that gras when bfing then?

You ate it Dustin? I prefer to smoke it msyelf