I'm so sick of being told giving up breast feeding will magically solve our sleep problems!!

[arolf]

DS is 5 mo, shit sleeper, EBF, although we're starting to wean with BLW which he loves when in the mood!
we'd got him sleeping 4 or 5 hrs, then 2 then another 2 at nights after 3 months of virtually no sleep (he'd manage 2 hrs max then want to feed all night long. it was tiring...)
however, for the past couple of weeks he's been waking every 45 minutes during the night, ravenously hungry, screaming if we try to put off feeding for more than a minute (i.e. whilst I'm getting my boob out - not fast enough in his opinion, so cue frantic yelling). I'm bloody exhausted, DP is sleeping in another room, and still getting woken up, we're both a bit frazzled. DS is not himself at all, so we reckon he's teething/growth spurting/something like that.

but this week, no less than 4 people have told me he'll only sleep when I give up bfing and switch to formula. because it worked for them/their friend. delving a little deeper, it turned out that all nstories the baby slept through within a month of solids being introduced, no matter when ffing was started. so to me, it sounds like solids and not formula may be the answer.

could some folk with more knowledge back me up on this? I don't want to move to ffing after getting bfing well established, and DS is thriving on it, but tbh if it would help with sleep, I'd be very tempted to consider it for 1 night...

will he take a bottle of expressed breast milk? could you then get your DP to say do a friday night dso you can at least get some sleep.

How well does he sleep in the day? we found that better day time sleeping resulted in better night time sleeping, its to do with sleep cycles and going to sleep gradually rather than fast and deep.

some babies sleep well
some babies dont

try to ignore the silly advice people give. usually they are just talking with respect to what worked for them, not what is general. my babies always slept throught the night. at four months i was having proper nights sleep, but that doesnt mean that i dont realise that some babies just dont. my colleague has a six year old who still wont sleep. poor girl has great big huge bags under her eyes all the time. its nothing to do with the type of milk and or solids.
hopefully mumsnetters who know about ths will be along soon. i just wanted to reassure you that at five months, it is perfectly normal not to be sleeping at night.

however, what worked for me, was that during the period, ten till six am, i would not give a milk feed. only water. last feed was at ten, next feed was at six. if they woke up in between, they only got offered water. meant they stopped waking up as it wasnt worth it. however, my babies were naturally good sleepers.

Hi. Firstly, I think that if you want to carry on bf then you should. Secondly, and this will be most controversial, and I speak only from my own experience, you may find that introducing some solids does help. I know the guidelines state 6 months but from 17 weeks I encountered the same problem with my DD. She was waking only once in the night (EBF)and then started to wake every hour. After a few weeks I was completely exhausted and struggling to cope. Initially I thought I would introduce a formula feed at bedtime and continue to BF but despite trying every band of formula and purchasing every bottle and different teat she would not drink it. It was my HV who suggested I tried a little baby rice - she wouldn't eat this either. I tried a little pureed apple - literally one teaspoon. She did sleep better that night. Because I had begun weaning earlier than I wanted to, I continued only to give her a teaspoon a so once a day for a couple of weeks so it was a very slow gradual process. I don't know how much difference his food made, perhaps it just helped her to feel satisfied a little longer but she was soon back to waking only once. On the other hand, you may find that if you can persevere with the hourly feeds for a bit longer, they may settle down again - I have had friends whose DC's have also done this. It is really hard when you are exhausted and there is a lot of guilt associated with doing the right thing, but you need to look after yourself too. As for babies sleeping through the night, my brother was EBF and slept 12 hours straight from 3 months. All babies are different. Good luck, I know it is hard.x

You might well find that introducing a bottle of formula or some solids does get him to sleep longer, but, this is because it is harder to digest, so sits in their tummy longer, which is probably not a good thing (especially under 6 months).

Have you heard of the 4-5 month sleep regression? It sounds as though you may be in it. The best thing you can do is try and ride it out - there was a support thread around here somewhere (I think in the sleep section) if you think that would help at all! Try shifting the focus from "How can I make him sleep??" to "How can I cope with his night wakings" - have you thought about co-sleeping (perhaps temporarily, until his sleep improves, or partially, ie bring him into bed when he wakes and don't put him back into cot unless you happen to be awake enough to want to) or rope DH in to help, either by giving a bottle of expressed milk, or by picking up the baby, bringing him to you in bed, you feed half asleep, then DH takes him back to cot and resettles.

thanks, we've actually tried bottles of EBM and formula in the past - made precisely sod all difference! and we've started baby-led weaning, which he's enjoying, but there's only so far carrot and broccoli can go to filling you up! we'll be starting on starchier foods in a couple of weeks anyway.

Bertie - that's what I thought, that formula is harder to digest, hence makes them feel fuller for longer. Not him though

we already co-sleep - mainly with him in the bedside cot, so I have my own space, but sometimes he comes in between DP and I at weekends.

I think, what annoys me most, is that these women (all women!) felt the need to tell me how to feed my baby, as clearly he'd do better on formula. (he wouldn't - he's a total gannet, so formula would probably just end up making a fat baby - at least with bfeeding he has to work at it! and like I say, he's definitely thriving - on 91st centile since 3 weeks, and hasn't budged) I wouldn't dream of telling them to breast feed, so why do they tell me what to do? And I wasn't complaining about his sleep - they all asked me first, then told me I should ffeed as it'll solve our problems.

Realistically, he's my first child, and thus only so far, so I can and will cope with little sleep. If he was a subsequent child, I'd probably struggle more. I'm glad I can come on here and whinge though!

I dont know whether this will make you feel better or worse but...

people said the same thing about ds when he was little. He was bf until 9m, he didnt sleep through the night until 22m (occasionally).

Also, not sure whether this will help or not (lol) but DS was BLW and EBF as well, his food intake went up very slowly, so I never noticed a sudden increase in sleep, but since he was about 15-16 months old, if he has not eaten enough food, he will wake from hunger, and breastfeeding won't satiate him any more. Before then, if he hadn't eaten much it didn't matter as he just filled himself up on milk instead.

I think that sometimes people just imagine you have a problem, when you don't! I keep getting told the same about all sorts of things (mainly relating to sleep I must say) which I am completely happy with. So I just not and smile and then ignore them completely.

ooohhh arolf you are so naive. According to people who advised me, stopping bf solves so much more than simply sleep problems Stopping bf is a magic bullet for sleep/behaviour/development/eating/TV watching/ability to count to ten, didn't you know??

er, ffing has the potential to cause a whole world of other shit - short and long term, that bf would not.

sounds like he is thriving on bm.

must be another way. my ds also sleeps better if he sleeps well in the day - more rested, less wired, more able to fall in and out of light/deep sleep i think.

sorry - 'er' sounds patronising .

if it helps people keep saying that to my lovely friend who has a nearly 12 months old who has never slept more than four hours (day or night)
He has never been breastfed. but strangers assume that because he isn' a good sleeper he is being.

Oh, I know plenty parents who ff and whose kids still get up through the night. I also know a few who sleep for huge stretches on breastmilk.

Like others have said, some kids are good sleepers, some aren't. No magic solution sadly.

Arolf we've been having 'ishoos' with sleeping here too, but I think it is the infamous 4-5month sleep regression thing. I have no magic solution but wanted to say hang in there, you're doing a great job

Some ff babies will sleep longer, but as you're doing so well with bf, I'd say keep at it a bit longer, it sounds like you have a hungry baby which will get much easier once he's got more solids in his diet - not far off. At this age I managed to be quite slim as my DD was feeding so well!

formula won't solve your issues IMO and IME

DS (DC1) fed in the night until he was weaned and he was formula fed (weaned at 23 weeks)

DD is 21 weeks, EBf and still wakes twice per night for a feed

am starting weaning in around 3 weeks and as she will be 6 months can introduce the proteiny/carby foods which will fill her up pretty soon

your DS will sleep ... just doesn't feel like it right now

also, at about 4/4.5 months, DS fed round the clock every 1/1.5 hours. now 5 months and almost overnight he's gone back to going 3/4 hours in the day and 5/6 at night - literally not as hungry anymore. (more early morning, but sometimes i don't think that is hunger. am trying to think of ways to crack 4-6am. saying that, this morning, iirc (so tired) he fed at 3:30, woke at 6.

like you say, once solids established, it might be a whole diff. story .

My DS was formula fed from wk2 and didn't sleep through till we put him in a bed at nearly 3 so I'd certainly dispute that FF would make a difference. DD was BF and slept from 11-6 at 6 weeks, 7-7 at 12 weeks and then from 6 months until 2.5 woke every night without fail. However, I do think that once he's properly established on solids including carbs and protein then he may settle for a little longer, that's my experience anyway.

I can't BF so dd and ds were both FF from birth, dd slept for 1.5 to 2 hours between feeds till she was 8 months and established on solids. ds slept 4 to 5 hours between night feeds from birth. as others have said it just depends on baby.

Ds did sleep better when I introduced solids (5 months) but it may have just been coincidence.

Don't think it is a nuitrition/hunger thing (at least after the first few months). Babies who are in a good routine so are not overtired at bed time and who are put down to sleep awake sleep better then those (like my dd whose day time sleeps are mad and who is either fed or rocked to sleep). We think it might be bf that does it because feeding calms and comforts the baby and sends her back to sleep, this does not happen with ff so people think that it is something else (teething/needing comfort) that wakes them and not hunger. In fact the same things are probably waking both babies but the bf ones can be fed back to sleep

DD - mixed (mostly ff) to 4mo then fully ff and weaned t 20 wks on advice of HV slept through for the first time aged 9 mo. She is now nearly 3 and still wakes in the night at least once a week...

DS fully bf and 20 wks also doesn't sleep but regularly went 4+ hours as a newborn (big regression at 14w). Now goes 2 hourly. I think it is my children

DS didn't sleep any differently when we did BLW at about 23/24 weeks, although to be fair, he was already sleeping through a lot by then. He took his own sweet time to get to a stage where he slept through, and I don't think it had anything to do with food or milk.

I know loads of parents with ff babies who woke constantly at night, as well as a good few who slept through. Same with bf babies. It really doesn't seem to make any difference - the babies are all different and set the agenda!

I had the same 'advice' with dc1, (also without ever complaining in the first place) at 9 mth check hv said to stop feeding at night, i ignored. DC1 didn't sleep through until almost 2yrs. DC2 has generally slept a good 8hrs at night since 6wks! (Waiting for it all to go pear shaped!)

Both fed on demand, both ebf. They are just different babies, some sleep, some don't. Only thing I do is try and foster good habbits i.e. night = dark, quiet, upstairs, as many feeds/cuddles as requested but not falling asleep in front of tv, even when tiny, that kind of thing.

BTW - solids did nothing to improve dc1 sleeping (and i doubt ff would have either), i just treated it as a developmental milestone, unrelated to feeding, something DC1 would do in time.

Now DC1 sleeps 8-9 hrs at night and has 2-3hr nap! (Sticks tongue out at those who gave unsolicited 'advice'!)

Sorry, hope that wasn't too smug. I get on my soap box when people start on about bf, feeding to sleep, lack on routine etc causing sleep 'problems'. IMHE it has more to do with the child than anything you do so you may as well do whatever it is you feel is best.

I really do feel for you though!