Baby 9 days old and I feel like I can't cope

[Littlestlass]

This is the first time I've posted anything on here, though in the run up to giving birth I found everyone's advice invaluable. Now I have had my baby I'm really feeling like I can't cope and I need some reassurance.

I have always intended to BF but now I'm trying I am really struggling. I know she isn't latching on properly and despite reading 101 books and leaflets and websites about latching on, neither of us seem to be able to get the hang of it. She puts her hands up to box or push herself away from my breast all the time which a) makes me feel like I'm being rejected and b) means I can't see how she's attaching. Plus I really don't seem to be able to get her to open her mouth wide enough. When I wait too long she starts crying and if I try to attach her then, she pulls off, so just the nipple is in her mouth again.

I don't have enough hands to hold her head, hold my breast in order to try and get more than the nipple in there, and keep her arms out of the way. We both end up getting frustrated and frequently I end up in tears as a result of that and the pain from sore nipples.

Also she sleeps pretty much completely through the day to the extent that I really struggle to wake her enough to feed her and then she nods straight back off, but at night after a feed she doesn't just nod off, she starts screaming. We check the nappy (which doesn't help with the screaming as she hates having her clothes removed) and then I end up passing her to my DP who rocks her to sleep because I don't feel like I can do it. As a result I'm petrified of his Paternity leave ending and him going back to work because it's too much for him to be awake all night and working all day.

The snowy conditions mean it's been difficult for people to come see us (since giving birth I've had 5 midwife visits from 4 different midwives so there's no continuity) and we can't get out for me to visit a BF support group as neither myself or my DP drive. We haven't been out in 3 days and I am starting to feel trapped (which I realise is part of having a very young child).

I would be grateful for people?s thoughts on my major issues:

1. Did your child put their hands to their face when trying to latch on and how did you address this?

2. Did your child have problems opening their mouth wide enough and how did you fix it?

3. Is it normal to cry so much after a feed rather than want to sleep?

4. Are there people who have had similar problems out there that are now enjoying the experience of BF and being a mum, and how long did it take?

Sorry for all this moaning, but I am really struggling. It's not helped by the fact my Dad has suspected pancreatic cancer and is having an operation on Monday (my mum had cancer a few years ago and is in remission). I am so worried that I won't be able to visit as he'll be in hospital for 2 weeks.

You poor thing . Have you phoned NCT/ LLL to find out if your local bf counsellor can come out to see you? You need experienced, real-life help - no amount of books and websites will replace having a bf counsellor come and help you in person.

FWIW - in terms of the hands/ arms - I tucked one of ds's arms under my arm and around my waist so it is kept out of the way. I then found that I could use my hand on the same arm to hold his other arm by his side. So if I'm cradling him with my left arm, his right arm is tucked under my left, and my left hand holds his right arm, leaving my right hand completely free to help him latch.

(Not sure that is at all clear, sorry!)

Oh you poor thing. Don't worry, it will get better, but I remember very well what it is like to have a newborn and to feel utterly overwhelmed. As Guimauve says, try NCT or La Leche League to see if someone can come out to see you. I take it your baby isn't jaundiced? That can make them very sleepy and reluctant to feed.

I'm sure a BF expert will post some good advice soon, but remember that formula feeding isn't evil.

But I don't think it is just the feeding that is getting you down, it is the whole experience of being a new mum. It's a scary time, especially with all this snow and being stuck inside. You've just given birth, you are tired and hormonal, and I'm sure you're doing a fantastic job. And honestly, it does get easier.

Good luck and un-Mumsnet like hugs x

Ah you poor thing, you're really in the thick of it

It WILL get better ! The first six week are the hardest, but they will fly by.

OK so my experience with DS1 was a breeze and it was a real shock to me to have trouble with tongue tied DS2, 14 weeks.

1. I sort of developed a technique of pinning a hand under each arm before I latched him on

2. Yes, because of his tongue tie. While pinning his arm under mine, I then kind of had to use the thumb of the arm supporting his head to tease his mouth open. Either that or just keep perservering with trying to latch him on. I had to be quick and realy stuff my boob in fast while pushing his head toward my breast. Don't worry about suffocating her !

3. Yes she is still learning to differentuiate night from day, this will take probably a couple more weeks. Try making daytime as active and noisy as posible, then nightime boring and dark. I used to persevere as long as I could at night with getting him down, and then DP would take over when I was a sobbing shattered mess, I would go and sit at the top of the stairs, have a weep and by the time I came back DP had him asleep & I could get some rest.

4. Yes ! Although he's adjusted his latch again & we're having to rework it, it's the easiest most convenient method. Belive me, you don't want to traipse downstairs in the cold dark to get a bottle !

HTH, I hope you get more help and advice (sorry for spelling etc, DS2 about to hit meltdown before nap)

It's really hard at first Little and this weather doesn't help at all.

I would first recommend going with her routine.If she is sleeping in the day, sleep too. This will leave you feeling like you have had some respite.
Feeding lying down is good too-just put her by your side and let her snuffle over in her own time.

Have you checked out Jack Newmann and Kellymom sites?
Both supposed to be superb.
Have you a friend/family member who can pop over and break the monotony?
Venture a trip out-even if it's just to the supermarket and cafe.

Hey, congratulations on your new addition.

In answer to your questions:

1- babies do paw at the breast and this is normal, at the mo your baby doesnt even know they have hands or what the hell they are doing so it is not an intentional thing of them rejecting you! Try swaddling her so her arms are tight by her sides and feed then. also make sure you are totally comfy too. have you tried the rugby ball hold or doing it laying down? Or lay a pillow underneath her to prop her up. you will need to try lots of things to get the positioning right, this is normal.

2- getting the baby to open wide is a bit of a pain, its no so much the wideness, but the wideness and the angle and then the position there after. Its a short window of opp to get the wide mouth and then quickly bring baby too you. they should have full cheeks, you should be able to hear them swallow, and no air popping sounds. It might hurt for the instant the latch but then it should not hurt at all. keep popping her off until its right. Get a BF counsellor to see you do this as soon as you can, I know the weather conditions make this hard.

3- i think lots of babies are confused about night and day, but they sleep ALOT in the 1st few weeks, so don't worry about this. What is diff from her day time sleeps to her night time sleeps? is she sleeping on you or DP in the day, but not at night? is she windy after a night feed? i would advocate co-sleeping to BF at night, that way you get lots of rest, you and DD get lots of skin to skin.

The last thing I thought I would mention is that DD maybe tongue tied and this is making it difficult to latch. But this is a maybe, you need to talk to you MW or HV about it.
Things will get better, you'll see. You are doing really well to have come this far with so many problems, so big pat on the back for that. You will be fine when your DP goes back to work, its still ages away, 5 days is a long time in baby time.

I hope your dad is OK.

I am sure other MNs will be on giving you better advice soon!

You are doing a good job. It is hard to get BF going, I really struggled with my 2 and would often end up in tears. It did get a lot better 2-3 weeks in, I promise.

It seemed a complete mystery to me how these women simply popped out a boob and the baby simply latched on!

ALso this weather is not helpfull, I am sure there must be some BF videos on You Tube or the internet, seeing it practically rather than reading about it might help. Will do a quick search and be back in a mo.......

Good videos on Jack Newman.

w ww.dailymotion.com/video/x1otj3_breast-feeding-video

Hope these help.

re: arms - alternative to guimauve advice which also leaves a hand free to hold your breast (I can't latch without holding breast!) is this...

Use a cushion or v pillow to help support baby's weight

If attaching to your left side:

• lay baby on her side with her underside arm either tucked along her side and kind of underneath her body (or around your waist as described by guimauve)

• hold left breast with left hand

• use right arm & hand to go over and behind baby, her arm goes along her side and slightly back, and is kept in place by your arm which runs along her back with your hand then kind of cupping top of shoulders & pushing baby towards breast at the top of her back (don't push head).

I don't know if that'll help or if it's too overcomplicated to explain on paper - hope it's of some help though?

Ooh - just remembered another technique I saw being used at a BF group last week - the specialist kind of wrapped the baby's arms in a muslin to keep them out of the way - used the muslin kind of like you would wear a shrug or a wrap if that makes sense?

Also in answer to question 4 - Yes I had some similar issues to you with DD (although thankfully without the weather to deal with) and we had some struggles in the early weeks - she's 3 months now and it's going great. You really do need to see a bf counsellor/specialist midwife though to help you through and get some RL advice.

How's weight/wet & pooey nappies? She might well be doing fine and these are the main indicators - I'd suggest that as long as she's actually getting the milk then that's at least one less thing to worry about and then your latch issues can get properly addressed in a day or so when hopefully the weather and roads may have improved. Do you have Lansinoh to ease any damage that may have been done?

I really hope you can get some good real life advice aswell as the advice you'll get here very soon - you're doing really well - don't get disheartened.

What MrsKitty says about not pushing her head is important. If you hold/ push the back of her head, her reflex is to push against you, i.e. away from the breast.

Feeding lying down, as Moondog says, is also brilliant. Leaves you with both hands free! Feeding lying down has been my lifesaver many a time!

I'm not v good with the specific b/f advice but just wanted to say it WILL get better - the snow will melt and you'll be able to get out and about and not feel cabin-feverous (is that a word ?)
And also huge congratulations on your baby!

I had exactly the same problem and no advice seemed to make sense as you are so tired and worried about feeding your baby! It can all seem totally crazy but it will get better eventually. A bit like riding a bike - it suddenly clicks.

However, I do recommend calling the NCT breastfeeding helpline as they were incredibly helpful at calming me down and that is one of the main problems.

Do you have a breastpump? If so, have a go expressing and DON"T worry if not much milk comes out it doesn't mean you don't have any it just takes a while for your breasts to letdown to a 'machine'. A breastpump can help shape the nipple to aid latching on. Plus, if you can express some milk it means you have some backup for feeding (ideally with a tiny 'cup') so you don't get in such a pickle worrying about baby latching on. Keep trying. Use lansinoh to prevent your nipples getting too sore and to help them heal if you have got sore already.

Good luck and keep trying. You will get there.

You poor thing, I had a similar experience with DD and it is very hard. Could you try swaddling DD before a feed so she can't grab her arms and push you away? Also, the biological nursing position really helps and you can google it but basically you lie on your back without a top on, put your baby face downn your chest and let the baby root and latch itself.

It does get better, promise.

I second the swaddling advice - in the first few weeks it was like trying to breastfeed an octopus.

I also never bothered trying to post my nipple into DD's mouth with my hand as, like you, I couldn't fathom how you'd manage it. I just sort of drew her towards me, which seems to work.

It gets better. Think of it as a skill you have to learn, like driving.

Congratulations on your baby! My dd also had her hands up by her mouth and sometimes in her mouth when trying to feed. I used to swaddle her or sort of pin them out of the way with my arm- I would latch her on and then use the free arm to move her hand down so I could see what she was doing. If I was really struggling my dh might help too! She also slept A LOT for the first few weeks and would fall asleep on the breast but moving her hands out of the way if they crept back up after she had latched on would wake her up and so was actually helpful in getting her to feed. Changing her nappy also helped keep her awake.

I don't really have any suggestions re the latch. I mumbled 'big wide open mouth' a few times to me and her when I was getting her to latch on, to remind myself, and tried to be calm until I was happy with it. I also put Lansinoh on after every feed which I think helped.

A friend told me that babies can smell your milk so it might be that she wants to go to sleep but is distracted by the thought of milk (even if she isn't hungry) which is maybe why your dh has better luck settling her back to sleep. My dh read 442 magazine to our dd for weeks as I couldn't get her to sleep.

And yes, it does get much better! My dd is 22 weeks now and breastfeeding is lovely and very convenient. I had a section and was stuck in hospital and then in the house and was desperate to get out whilst also feeling totally overwhelmed but it does get better really quickly. 6-8 weeks was when things seemed markedly easier but I felt confident enough to feed in public by the third week.

Good luck. It really does get better.

1. Did your child put their hands to their face when trying to latch on and how did you address this? Have you tried swaddling the baby so their arms are trapped! or I developed a technique of tucking arms out of the way. TBH it does take practise and at 7 months DS still gets his arms in the way if I forget. Or you could try holding the baby like a rugby ball under your arm.

2. Did your child have problems opening their mouth wide enough and how did you fix it? Yes, I have very large norks. Trying squishing them in your hand to make a more pointy shape. See above about rugby ball hold.

3. Is it normal to cry so much after a feed rather than want to sleep? If they have wind/colic then yes. Have your tried giving some infacol?

4. Are there people who have had similar problems out there that are now enjoying the experience of BF and being a mum, and how long did it take? I am currently bf my third child. I BF all of them. It was hell for the first few weeks each time and I managed to bf for 8 months, 15 months and hoping to do 18 months with this one. The first 2 weeks are the worse. The first 4 weeks are difficult. Then it starts to get easier. Then it is very easy!

Also, meant to add that a midwife gave me a copy of From Bump to Breast Feeding, from Best Beginnings, which I found really reassuring. I just looked and you can watch it online here if you haven't been given a copy.

Hi, there. I'm sorry you're having such a horrible time.

DS had jaundice, so was under lights in a hospital for 5 days, which really interfered with learning to breastfeed. I would say we didn't get the hang of breastfeeding till he was 2-3 weeks, but then I fed him till he was 13 months, and was so glad it worked out, as it was a damned sight easier than FF!

1. Did your child put their hands to their face when trying to latch on and how did you address this?
   Yes. I swaddled him with a muslin (fold square into triangle, lay baby in it, fold "wings" around arms, pinning them down but also securing child.

2. Did your child have problems opening their mouth wide enough and how did you fix it?
   Best imagery I heard was "hook" the baby onto nipple: let mouth come a little past nipple and then "hook" on.

3. Is it normal to cry so much after a feed rather than want to sleep?
   Could be wind or colic. Or perhaps she is hungry? If she screams, perhaps try to burp, then reattach. Screaming can itself cause wind. The ideal you are going for is a baby who falls off the breast, looking drunk. If you would like me to CAT you, I can send a pic of DS "drunk"

4. Are there people who have had similar problems out there that are now enjoying the experience of BF and being a mum, and how long did it take?
   Again, I reckon, 2-3 weeks from birth. Remember, both you and DD are learning to breastfeed. I found breastfeeding easy (after original problems), always on-tap, no washing up, no sterilising, no need to remember to bring bottle with me, etc. I also lost loads of weight - though be warned: I got into naughty eating habits which I came to regret when I stopped feeding!

Have you checked for a tongue-tie? This is a dirty secret they don't like to mention in antenatal classes, as - I don't know why! It could explain why many mums have difficulty breast-feeding, and help them avoid giving up and feeling cheated!

Your baby is so young that you have not had a chance to get used to anything, so please don't panic at this stage. It does take a while to get sorted, so just give yourself some credit for every achievement, and you will grow into it.

1. Yes - agree with the swaddling advice. Also, I fed lying down with my first dd, and this left my hands free to guide my nork into her mouth. Patience patience and more patience was the key with dd.

2. More patience and the lying down thing really helped with her.

3. My two haven't really done this, but I'm v feeling your pain with the sleeping through the day thing. I spent all of the first few weeks with ds trying to keep him awake long enough to feed. It is a phase and it passes.

4)Had a bugger of a time with dd - hated it, hated myself, came very close to hating her, felt a complete failure and just wanted to run away and hide. With ds, it was much easier to get through the tough times because I knew they were temporary and I knew it was worth it.

Don't forget, the reason everyone bangs on about how hard it is having a newborn is because it's so fecking hard. If you're knackered and you're worried and you feel like your life has been turned inside out, then you're probably doing it right.

Hang on in there.

Hun..you're doing fine! Definitely swaddling helps with the feeding but really try to see a bf counsellor for encouragement and help if you can. Regards the crying...The Happiest Baby on the Block by Dr Harvey Karp (DVD) was a total lifesaver to us with a screaming baby.

Keep hanging on in there! I suffered terribly with DD and to be honest I'm not sure how I survived. Thankfully no probs with DS. Can't offer any more advice as all seems to be covered, but do want to offer my support. I remember only too well how lonely I felt, particularly in the middle of the night. Not sure where you live but if you are in Leeds area I would happily meet with you. I'm not an expert but have been there!

echo what everyone else has said, wrap her up to pin her arms - both of you are learning how to do this plus you have a load of hormones and you're tired. keep going, it gets easier - gaps between feeds get a bit longer and she'll get the hang of day and night. you're doing great x

Littlestlass - this all sounds so familiar. You will get the hang of it and in a couple of weeks you and DD will both be a dab hand at it. Given how natural is it supposed to be, I couldn't believe how hard it was and how there were some obvious design flaws like the baby being able to flap its arms around and not being able to see its latch.

1. Yes! My DD went through a phase for a couple of days where she'd grab my nipple with her hand and then suck on her hand as though she was somehow hoping to use her hand as a straw! As other people have said, try and pin her bottom hand underneath her when you bring her into your body and try to angle her so her other hand isn't near the nipple. Whilst swaddling will help with this problem, I often had to strip DD down to her nappy to stop her falling asleep during a feed (massaging hands and feet also helps to keep them awake and sucking).

1. Again, yes! Her mouth just didn't seem big enough and it seemed impossible to time it so that her mouth met my nipple at exactly the right time. You just get better with practice and now I don't really think about it. In the early days, during the day, I would break her off and re-attach her if the latch wasn't right but at night I'd just let her feed if the latch wasn't too painful as both of us were too tired to deal with numerous attempts at getting the latch right.

1. Its not unusual. How persistant are you at burping her? I thought getting a burp out would take about a minute so, if she hadn't burped in that amount of time, would stop trying to wind her. After a week or so of this, I realised it could take 20 - 30 mins to wind her! Infacol may help if its colic. Or have you tried offering the other breast in case its hunger?

1. DD is now 11 weeks old and bf now feels like an entirely natural process and probably has done since about week 6. I've fed her in the pub, in a restaurant, in a car park etc. Being a mum is fab (although I am going insane with not being able to get out of the house!) and it gets easier over the next few weeks as they become more alert and able to focus and able to use their arms and legs a bit more - DD now spends 20 mins at a time on her play mat happily playing by herself which makes life so much easier.

Lastly, when your DP goes back to work, don't expect to be able to do anything during the first few days (or weeks) other than feed DD. Sleep whenever you can, whether its day or night. Having a shower or putting a load of washing on will be a bonus (although I do recommend grabbing a shower if you can as you'll feel so much better). When you get a chance to get out of the house, stock up on ready meals for the evening so that you don't have to think about supper for the first week or so. One of my friends got her DP to make her sandwiches and a flask of coffee before he went to work so that she didn't have to worry about making herself lunch or a hot drink.

Looking back now, those first couple of weeks seem like such a blur and all I remember is the feeling of not being able to cope and sleep deprivation and yet it passes so quickly. It will get a lot better when the snow clears up and you can get out of the house, not only to get to a bf clinic but just to see other people and have random strangers comment on how gorgeous your baby is!