Is giving the odd formula to BF baby really that bad?

[Positron]

Hi all, am new here.

I am a bit mixed up in the head about this whole breastfeeding thing.

I wasn't able to BF my DD (now nearly three), and was determined to BF my DS who is now 4 months. I had problems with latch initially but now BF has been going reasonably well since.

However, I am having to give him the odd "rescue" bottle of formula now and then (mainly when it's his last feed before bed), because I simply have no more milk left to give him. I have found however that this is happening on a more regular basis. The poor guy is getting hungry and frustrated and it is really upsetting me that I cannot offer him any more breastmilk - hence the formula. I feel that the healthcare professionals might look down on me for this, but what else am I supposed to do? I'm trying the usual advice to keep up my milk supply, but not always working. I want to stop beating myself up about this, but am finding it very hard, as everywhere you look, there is a poster advising exclusive BF for first 6 months. Is having the odd bottle of formula here and there so bad? Please help.....want to feel sane again!

Positron my dd has been doing this pulling off thing for weeks now and I know how you feel - it's VERY frustrating.

Do you experience a letdown? DD pulls off in frustration until the letdown (she obviously doesn't realise that the more she sucks the quicker it will come ) and as soon as my letdown finishes she pulls off again. If she's doing it a lot I simply stop feeding and either try the other boob or stop altogether for half an hour or so.

I've realised that some babies simply see bf as a means to an end, and don't necessarily enjoy the experience or find any comfort in it. I've heard they also pull off if they're teething. And if they're used to a bottle they get annoyed with the slower flow from boobs.

Great advice from everyone else, I hope the situation gets better for you.

Thanks again to all. I feel much better for coming on here.

I must say that there are times when he feeds beautifully, especially in the mornings. It's in the late afternoon/early evening when I experince this problem.

I experience a letdown, but this is more noticable earlier on in the day.

I established BF in well but had trouble with BFing both mine at 16 weeks, to the extent that I began giving DD1 formula. She started being very unsettled and pulling off during feeds, I could only feed her in motion (walking round, or on the birth ball) or when she was very tired. Her discontent at the breast seemed to pass within a month and we returned to exBF and then before we knew it were on to solids. With DD2 I found out about growth spurts and nursing holidays (as described by Lontalljosie) and was able to ride it out. But with both, around 4-5months I would describe as 'peak BFing', when they asked for the most milk from me and wanted to feed most frequently, yet for whatever reason, were distractable and grumpy when doing it!

Really feel for the OP, it was a punishing time.

Positron - no advice really, but just wanted to say I'm having an identical BF experience. Baby is three months, and ever since she was a few weeks old, evening fretting has been an issue. It makes me want to tear my hair out by the roots, and on bad days, has me weeping. And yes, the odd bottle of formula HAS been given.

I feel bad about the formula, then angry at myself for feeling bad - afterall, it's not poison. I suppose I'll muddle on and hope things get better. Only three more months to go...

Hi Positron,

My DD started doing the same when she was almost 3 months old. She is 4 months next week. The first thing I thought was that I was running out of milk. I was dead worried for two weeks until I talked with a friend of mine and she told me that it was perfectly normal. They are discovering the world at this stage and they need to look at everything even when they are breastfeeding. I can see my DD getting ungry with the first breast and pulling off but then I offer her the second breast and she seems taking it very well and seems ful by the end of the feed.

She will still pull off the breast every now and then and punch it but I guess it will be a way of getting more milk in an easy way instead of having to suck harder. They can get a bit lazy some days but you have to do what is best for you. At the end of the day every child is different and no body knows your child better than you. So if you believe that your child needs a top up go for it.

Thanks so much for all your support. Much appreciated.

I have been feeding DS quite a lot today (except when I had to hit the shops this afternoon for a couple of hours). He's back on the boob as I type this. Will see what happens tonite.......

Hi Positron,

Giving formula is not bad at all in itself. It's a perfectly adequate method of feeding babies. Don't beat yourself up it is not a failure. I am responding to this only on the basis that posting it implies to me that you'd like to get back to fully breastfeeding.

From what you describe my theory is that there are a number of things going on. My main worry about suplementation would be that since formula is absorbed differently to breastmilk - it takes longer, supplementing with even one bottle may work to decrease your supply over time as it may increase the time between feeds even if you are expressing the milk and not feeding it to the baby. If your baby still feeds often over the nighttime even after formula this is perhaps a good sign for your supply as it means your breasts are still getting regular stimulation.

Milk supply is known to be slightly lower in the evenings than other times of the day and so it may be that this is influencing your feeling of having no milk. It is unlikely that you really have no milk in the evening if your supply is good the rest of the time, it is more likely that you have less milk and your breasts have gotten used to not needing to be emptied at this time. The normal way to improve this would be to feed often in the evening for a few days and to pump after a feed for 2-5 mins after the milk stops flowing.

I think what may have happened is that giving your baby a formula top-up in the evening and expressed milk from a bottle once in a while has made him become accustomed to being able to get the milk from a bottle easily when he is tired in the evening. The teats on bottles are easier to extract milk from than the breast and he may be impatient with suckling on the breast knowing that he has the option of getting faster flowing milk with less work. It might just be that.

What might have sparked it in the first place may just have been something very normal - that babies often go through periods of wanting to cluster feed in the evening and are often fussy at this time of day coupled with a feeling of having a comparatively low supply in the evening making you paranoid about your supply and think of adding a formula top up.

You really should be able to make enough milk, bear in mind that it takes a couple of days for stimulation to impact supply, if you persevered with trying to get him to feed from the breast and you were willing to put up with a couple of days of him being unsatisfied and fussy. It sounds like it really may not be worth that stress at this stage though.

I second what tiktok said about getting someone to take a look though. You can't be sure unless someone who knows has taken a look at what is happening. It depends whether or not you mind giving an evening top-up and how important it is to you to go back to exclusive breastfeeding.

I gave my DD a bit of formula - not in a bottle, but in a cup, once she was past six months and I wanted to leave her with my mother while I went out (for up to a day).

It made no difference to my milk supply - in fact, I breast fed her until she was almost 4.

Hi Positron - I started mixed feeding DS at 6 weeks and he is now 21 weeks and still breastfeeding. To begin with it was suggested that I top up with 4oz in an evening to give me half an hour off feeding (between 4pm and midnight), but after a couple of weeks I upped it to 6oz every feed as he still hadn't regained his birthweight. I just didn't produce enough milk (my feeding was observed and latch checked), but I did everything I could to increase my supply (including bed rest and expressing after every feed) and it didn't have any effect. I still offer 6oz after every feed and sometimes he has it all, sometimes he has only an ounce. I expected that I would have to stop BF very quickly after I started giving formula, but that hasn't been the case at all.

Don't feel bad about using formula - it isn't a bad thing. The health benefits of breastfeeding are important and topping up with formula doesn't wipe out those benefits.

thanks so much curiosity for your detailed response - i really do appreciate the time and trouble for your input. Yes, i think encouraging more evening feeds and hacking a few nights of evening fussiness is probably key to solving this problem.

Yesterday, I went back to expressing some milk at night (while he was asleep) - in an attempt to boost supply and to reserve for my upcomming pre-christmas nights out. (i will try to resist giving him the expressed bottles, unless at my wits end, in which case at least i will have an emergency suuply of breast milk rather than formula).

thanks also to bonsoir and babybouncer - your personal experiences/recommendations have been noted.

Dear thesecondcoming,

I reaaly do feel for you and am sorry for the experience you had with dd2. I am also starting to feel the way you did, and not enjoy the experience of feeding DS (as much as I love him). I feel I can't win either way...I had a major hang up about not being able to BF DD (although she was much more easier to handle in terms of feeling satisfied and content).

This afternoon and this evening have been absolutely awful

The problem has not been helped becasue my DH is abroad for a funeral, and I also have a demnding (almost) 3 year old DD to look after too. Inevitably, one of them is going to be neglected while I look after the other. I still have to get tea ready for my dd, and ds just screamed his head off for so long (even though I had just offered him the breast before getting dd ready for her tea). I broke down in tears, and of course that was just the time when my mum rang up to thank me for some flowers i had sent (she had just been discharged from hospital today), and I wish I had been on better form to talk to her.

I did not give formula tonite, neither the expressed milk I had from yesterday, in the hope that he will be ready for a good feed once he has had whatever sleep he gets (he was down in the cot for around 8pm).

One question to all.....if the baby is getting fussy in the evenings, is it worth just trying to get them to sleep at that point, feed or no feed, and what time do/did you put your babies to sleep for the night?

With the bobbing on and off the boob thing, my experience has been that DS (3 months) does this usually when he needs winding. Sometimes it does feel like there's nothing else in there, and if he's been feeding for ages and seems to be only sucking and not swallowing, I'll take him off and give him a dummy.

He usually goes to bed around 8pm, after a bottle of EBM.

dear positron,
I went through the same. My DS is now 6 wks. He didn't put on enough weight one time so I panicked & started topping up after the feeds where I thought he was still hungry. Have an electric double breast pump & would express but couldn't get more than 5-10mls. My breast would literally stop giving milk after 30 seconds of pumping! No matter how long I stayed on after (did 20mins a few times to see if it would increase supply more) but nothing. I want to bf at least over the winter months but it's hard when they fuss & seem starving.
What I do now is offer the breasts (both) a few times untill he really gets frustrated, then top up with formula. If he doesn't get fussy after a feed, then I know he's satisfied & I forget about the top up. I felt guilty at first but now I think, as long as he gets some amount of breast milk in him & he doesn't go hungry, then it's better than nothing at all.
When the supply goes completely, I'll do only formula. Until then, I'll carry on this way.
Do whatever feels right for you & your baby.

Goodluck!
Xx

Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

Tonite, he got fussy again, but just had to settle him with a feed, lying down in bedroom - he then calmed down and eventually dozed off.

I am wondering if this recent change in sleep pattern (i.e. waking up more in the night for feeds), and more frequent feeding in the day is because of a growth spurt (does this happen at around 4 and half months, though?); I hope it will calm down, but it has been happening for neary 2 weeks now......

I read in the Baby Whisperer book that if the baby bobs on and off the boob it can be because they are frustrated by a slow let-down, and she suggests "priming" your boob with a pump before you start the feed so the milk gets in the baby's mouth quicker... hope that helps?

How interesting, Blondieminx. I may just try that out.....but it also raises the question...why should I have a slow let down reflex at a certain time of the day (i.e. evenings), when it is fine at other times?

Hello,

I have a 9 day old baby born by urgent c-section (plaenta abruption) and I am trying to breast feed (no issue with BF with my first daughter) but have very sore nipples and I did give a formula feed last night, is it OK to mix formula and BF - just for that last feed when my milk supply seems low.

Thanks
Sallyd11

Hi Sallyd11,

I t would appear that it takes a few days for your milk supply to come in fully. Have you tried some nipple cream, like Lansinoh or Kammillosan?

I also had to top up with formula in the beginning and am still having to do now and again (DS over 4 and half months). From what I have gathered since I started this discussion, people have suggested to avoid formula if possible because it could reduce your milk supply. Also, it seems as if milk production is usually lower in the evenings.
Does your baby seem content in the evenings or ravenous? In the early days, babies need to be put to the breast more frequently, and the more you feed, the more you will produce in the next day or two.

Positron - I have been experiencing the same problem with ds over the past week.He keeps pulling off the boob. I finally worked out that he could have been snuffly and needed to breathe! He is teething which could be causing him to do this, or he is overtired.. I am exclusively BF, it is difficult not knowing if he is getting enough but I am just offering him both boobs with feeds and this seems to be working.My ds is 4 months as-well.

Oonaghbhuna,

I think my DS may be teething also. What signs are your DS showing to suggest teething? My DS is doing some dribbling (but not a massive amount), and fingers/soft toys are in the mouth. He was also snuffly, having picked up the coomon cold which DD had introduced into the household last week, but he is well over that now, and still he bobs on and off the boob - just can't work out what's up with him except to attribute it to that fussy time of day for him.

I put him to bed at 8pm last night, and he has had me up through much of last night, and early hours of this morning,and offering the breast is the only thing that will settle him again; but he has been settled in this last hour. I don't know if he's hungry, or that he just needs a comfort suck whenever he wakens from whatever reason....i have the soother at the ready for next time, just to test out the comfort suck theory.....

positron, havent had a chance to read everything, but could it be overtiredness that is causing the pulling on and off? i have noticed that if i miss my dd's sleep cues (often happens as i also have 3yo DD1), she is up all evening, feeding and pulling off and generally being miserable. i now try to settle DD2 with a DVD after tea and take DD2 up at about 5.45 for bath, feed and bed.

might be worth a try if you can. good luck, i know how frustrating and upsetting it can be.

yes dribbling, red cheeks, even a nappy rash can be signs of teething.Fingers in the mouth and chewing on toys, cloth basically anything! Some babies are snuffly too.
Boob is the only thing that soothes Ds, it is a comfort. However last night was the first night in a week that he fed properly and slept so there is light!!!