Friend in hosp with DVT, baby is 2weeks (ish), she has been told she must stop bf, are the docs right?

[JustBeBuffy]

OK so i don't know what meds she's on & i don't want to pester her but am sad if she's being given false info.

She says she's spoken to 3 doctors, all of whom have said she must stop bf as the baby could have an internal bleed as he's so small.

She has to be on the meds for 6months.

Her DVT was misdiagnosed as a trapped nerve first apparently , she's been in hosp since Fri so baby has been on a bottle since then anyway.

Having done a quick google i found this that implies she should be ok to carry on?

I don't know how much of a fight she's prepared to put up tbh, but just feeling & for her.

(this is dc2 for her, she bf her first for most of a year as far as i remember - we met at bf group)

Spot on JustBe, so long as you support her if she decides it is all too much hassle and continues to bottle feed, which I'm certain you would do.

It sounds like you have been really helpful. I remember feeling really isolated when I was first admitted. I had no access to the internet, so I couldn't do my own research. I relied on my mum and my DH to do it for me. Your friend is lucky to have you!

Thanks

Also i remember my post-emcs days with Patientline and it was so slow & so expensive, research was not as easy as coming on here, lol!

On a slight tangent - she was told that the baby was not allowed into hosp with her (just been told that by another mutual friend) - aren't there NICE guidelines about this sort of thing??

so for her & getting v with her level of care tbh.

hopefully she will be home tomorrow armed with info from BfN so maybe not a major concern.

She'll be home tomorrow so probably doesn't want to cause a fuss now, but she absolutely should have had her baby with her. If the ward she is on cannot cater for her, many hospitals admit the patients to the maternity ward. However, what is supposed to happen is quite far from what usually happens, and 'usually' with current bfing rates and poor understanding of drugs/bfing, separating mothers and babies is seen as acceptable.

Jesus ringing the BFN helpline when 3 X she's been told by doctors not to bf she'd have to be barking mad to go against her doctor's advice.

The BFN helpline won't know all her babies details,weight etc.

There is no way on hell's earth I'd put my baby at risk however slight from an internal bleed however much I wanted to bf and I wanted to badly. I was on some of those drugs when I had OHSS,they are pretty heavy duty. I still worry as to what possible damage they may have caused which may come out years down the line. I had no choice but to take them. No way would I want any of them in my baby's system even if I was told it was ok which she hasn't been.

I'm totally with Mosschops this kind of thing is when the internet gets really dangerous.

OP I think you need to back off now,you're just making things harder. Some times you just have to take medical advice and live with it. How on earth would she feel if something did happen,she'd never forgive herself,it's soooo not worth the risk.

Mila We have no idea if those drugs pose a risk to the baby of an internal bleed, but what we do know for sure is that there are risks to the baby and mother of NOT BFing.

Do you not think that the mother should be given the information to make her choice?

It really isn't as simple as you make out.

Oh FFS and you wonder why some of you are called militants!!!!!!

What do you mean moss?

Def okay on heparin type drugs. (Have done x3 pgs and bf. Last time 5 months ago x 40mg twice a day.)
Have also bf x2 while on warfarin following the heparin (not using anything this time around).
Your friend needs a second opinion urgently. Where is she? Mine was Dr Kimberley Hunt at St Thomas's. She struck me as knowing this subject inside out.

once again:

'JUST BECAUSE YOU DID AND YOU WERE FINE DOES NOT MEAN ITS FINE FOR THIS LADY AND HER BABY'!!!!!!!!
And she's had 3 opinions, how many more do you suggest she needs?

oh and frankly your post doesnt even dignify an answer, you sum up everything that gives breastfeeding a bad name.

Am hiding this thread now before I throw the PC out the window.

OP I do hope your friend manages to get some good information that is relevant to her and her baby (not internet randoms!). I wish her all the best in whatever she decides is best for her and her baby

Breastfeeding has a bad name? Truly mystified.

I really don't know what your problem with me is. Would you not want the mother to be supplied with all relevant information to enable to choose what is in the best interests of the health of her baby?

BTW, I would never encourage a mother to go against doctors advice, simply if she had good reason to doubt it, question, present information and work with them to ensure the best outcome for her and her baby's health.

You sound like a nice mate JustBe and I am sure you will be supportive of your friend whatever the outcome. She clearly values your input otherwise she wouldn't be texting you back.

Thanks Needtomoveon

And thanks everyone for your input, i have left it to her (not sure how i can 'back off' any more tbh ) and hope all works out ok from here

The risks of not bf are pretty insignificant compared to the risk of an internal bleed in a newborn.

Am also shocked that posters here actually think because they bf and took said drugs or knew somebody else who did they are now 'experts' on the subject far above and beyond the doctors the lady in question has actually spoken to. The very same doctors who would have her and her baby's notes immediately to hand in addition to medical training.

Youmella what is the lady supposed to do -put her baby at risk and carry on bf whilst she gets on the phone from her hospital bed to the BFN helpline and your consultant at St Thomas's,all the while ignoring her own doctor's advice? Is she then supposed to process the various bits of info she obtains from sources she can't verify properly whilst tired, worn out and maybe confused. This is preferable to just listening and following her own doctor's who have actually examined her and know her and her baby's entire history. Totally bloody ludicrous!!!!

i was on Clexane and thats fine for BF. however, when DD2 was 3 weeks old I developed gall stone which then (goodness me Im a drama) pancrestis and kidney failure. Due to meds I couldnt carry on BF BUT did spend the 3 weeks I was in hospital pumping my milk 3 times a day and dumping down the sink. It gave me something to do most days and once home I feed DD2 as much as possible to rebuild supply which only took 3/4 days and then feed her till she was 20months.
HTH

Thanks Lisa - and well done!

If she finds out it's ok to bf, i'm sure she'll need tips to get everything back on track, esp as she won't have been expressing (i think) as she was told a point blank 'no' when she went in.

they cant stop her expressing as long as shes not giving it to the baby. She needs to express off to keep supply going otherwise she would be able to restart.

I requested a hospital electric pump, which they gave me from materity unit.

Don't want to hassle her and tell her to express - having bf before she should know to keep things going supply-wise. so hopefully it'll work out.

Oh and i'd like to point out that i kind of 'owe' her - she dragged me along to the bf support group in the first place back when we both had our first DC a day apart. I was too shy/antisocial to go myself but went as she promised to look after me

This is now the group I go back between babies for moral support with DS2's issues, so thanks R

Milamae I'm not sure you are interpreting correctly. I read this thread and see posters using their own experience of having taken said drug whilst bfing to suggest that the mother phones the BFN to present information to her doctors for their advice.

There is no way of truly saying whether or not the risks to a newborn of not bfing outweigh the risks of an internal bleed unless you are presented with the facts, and level of risk. It would appear in this case that there is no risk of interanl bleeding, in which case the risks associated with not bfing are significantly higher. The OP's friend is entitled to have all the information with which to make her decision. The fact that there are women on here who have had very different advice from the same professionals, goes to show it is not a cut and dried situation.

The OP has not told her friend to ignore the advice of the doctors, but she has suggested, with very good reason, to question it. Given that the NHS is stretched at best most people can give examples of being fobbed off my these professionals to enable them to cope with their worklad. It is entirely possible that, should they have known how important bfing was to her they would have made the time to investigate, or suggested an alternative drug. Given their workload, the ff norm and the fact that the only evidence for the safety of these drugs is that the people who have chosen to use them have come to no harm, you can understand their advice. It does not mean however, that it is the most appropriate advice for the OP's friend.

I did some of research into this when I was diagnosed with a DVT after having DD1 (I have some printouts somewhere - CAT me if that would be useful). DD1 was born at 33 weeks and I was initially told that I wouldn't be able to breastfeed once I was on warfarin. However, this was absolutely not right (just a knee-jerk reaction on the part of the doctors who were badly informed) and I took warfarin and fed DD1 for 6 months. If anything there would have been more risk of haemorrage with a premmie (she weighed about 2kg), but when I asked her paeds they were not concerned at all.

As others have said with Clexane (and I was told also with Fragmin, which I was on for a while) there is no risk either in pregnancy or breastfeeding.

I was devastated when they originally told me I wouldn't be able to breastfeed - what with DD1 being prem, and me having a DVT, it felt like everything was going wrong, and bf was for me an important way to get things going right again.

I should also say i didnt have my baby with me either for the 3 weeks I was there very horrible time for us all, but DH brought her in everyday and stayed as long as possible. I just couldnt care for her I was out of it a lot and was ina lot of pain

Im sure your friend will do fine with your support.

Beverly Hunt is the uk expert. She founded LIFEBLOOD which is a charity dedicated to beating blood clots. If you google it you can get loads of info.

Not sure why this lady has been put on warfarin - usually a choice is offered between warfarin and LMW heparin.

The haematologist is the expert, and as it is the weekend, it is likely that she has not had the opportunity to see a haematologist.

Heparin is given by injection because it cannot be absorbed through the gut. It is fine with breast feeding. BUT I agree, the lady should follow the advice of the doctors for the moment, but ask to see a haematologist asap, and ask for the information re the rationale for

a) warfarin
b) 6 months treatment.

She will need to see a haematologist anyway, so no harm in asking for sooner rather than later IYSWIM.

Expressing and discarding in the meantime might be the way to go if she can cope with it.