Friend in hosp with DVT, baby is 2weeks (ish), she has been told she must stop bf, are the docs right?

[JustBeBuffy]

OK so i don't know what meds she's on & i don't want to pester her but am sad if she's being given false info.

She says she's spoken to 3 doctors, all of whom have said she must stop bf as the baby could have an internal bleed as he's so small.

She has to be on the meds for 6months.

Her DVT was misdiagnosed as a trapped nerve first apparently , she's been in hosp since Fri so baby has been on a bottle since then anyway.

Having done a quick google i found this that implies she should be ok to carry on?

I don't know how much of a fight she's prepared to put up tbh, but just feeling & for her.

(this is dc2 for her, she bf her first for most of a year as far as i remember - we met at bf group)

TBH if i was your friend in hospital with DVT and new baby Id be slightly miffed at your obsession with my continuing bf against the advice of my doctors (all 3 of them) . She is a grown woman and can surely make this decision herself without you pestering her with info from internet which may neither be reliable or recent.

I know they give Clexane post op for women who have had CS, but no idea for how long. And I have no idea about warfarin.
Just because people on here have taken things whilst pg or bf does not mean its right or safe for your friend, surely thats for the professionals to decide.

I had this exact same fight when DD2 was born. I had a DVT diagnosed when she was 9 days old. I was hospitalised and put on warfarin. The consultant mentioned a "theoretical risk of haemorrhage" for my DD if I continued to breasfeed and then ran out of the door!

I was distraught. The thought of not being able to feed her myself and also trying to sort out formula, bottles etc on top of what was happening to me was devastating.

I really struggled to get definitive answers to my questions and the problem is, as others have said, it is because there have not been enough studies done. So although wafarin and low molecular weight heparins are almost certainly safe to take when breastfeeding no-one will commit themselves because the full scientific back-up is not there.

Thankfully I was referred to a great haematologist who decided that the safest option was Fragmin (a low molecular weight heparin). All the studies have shown that it does not pass into your breastmilk. The other advantage to Fragmin is that you can self-inject once a day and you don't have to have your bloods checked weekly at a clinic as you do with Warfarin.

The haematologist told me that the reason more women are not given Fragmin is because it is comparatively very expensive .

I hope your friend gets some good advice and, if she wants to breastfeed, just tell her to keep badgering until she gets to speak to someone who knows what they are talking about!

Mosschops30, I BF both my DCs for a long time and if I had another baby and was told to stop BFing early on I would be DEVASTATED and I would really appreciate a friend on the outside to help me with exploring the options whilst I was in hospital.

I agree with Lulumama about the problems of testing ethically on pregnant women and with VLC and others about Drs not always knowing enough about breastfeeding and medications.

Hiya

I'm the person from the other forum that deemented was referring to.

Here is some literature about anti-coagulants and breastfeeding.

www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/pdfs/Anticoagulants_and_Breastfeeding_March _2009.pdf

It's perfectly ok to bf and take warfarin. I did it and a friend of mine did it too. When doctors are very uneducated when it comes to bfing, so unless they know 100% that something is safe, they will tell you that it isn't

I don't frequent on this forum but I can give deemented my email address if the lady in question wants to email me about it

dear god I cant tell you how this type of thing makes me, what is it with people on here and their belief that all doctors/health professionals are indeed trying to hurt/destroy us all in some way (ignoring advice about vaccinations, ignoring advice about inductions, ignoring advice from 3 DOCTORS

FGS I would be more devastated at potentially risking the health of my new baby than having to give up breastfeeding. Its hardly the end of the world is it??

Im not saying that she cant because I dont know enough about it, but this ridiculous notion that feeding should take precedence over medical advice from 3 different professionals is IMHO stupid!

I kind of agree with mosschops, I'm sure you mean well OP but perhaps your friend will not welcome your intervention, and may feel pressured to continue if you persist in providing her with information. I think you've done enough to help her get alternative info if she wants to do so. Up to her.

_2009.pdf

I think it is more stupid that 3 different professionals appear to be giving duff advice personally, - and very worrying.

woah, ok, firstly i was v wary of pestering her.

she replied v quickly to one of my texts saying she may be able to carry on and with a question asking if maybe she could so i took that as positive interest.

if she'd said, listen i'm out of it on meds and can't be arsed to fight this possible battle, then of course i would leave it.

i said in latest text (there have been 3 or 4 i forget, not loads) that it would best to leave a message with the BfN people and see.
and that mainly i hoped she would recover & be home soon.

I do NOT believe all docs are evil, but i do think they can be woefully misinformed/underinformed about bf.

she has a chance to find out whether or not she CAN restart bf when she is hopefully discharged tomorrow.

ps i dunno about expressing tbh, she was told to stop so prob did nothing....

Oh and i know bf is not the be and all and end all but i know she is v pro-bf and she has told me that she is v upset about being told to stop.

i have left it to her now anyway.

I understand where you are coming from Mosschops, but it did seem like the end of the world to me I'm afraid. And, in my case it wasn't a case of ignoring medical advice - it became apparent, as is very clear here, that this is one issue that an awful lot of medical professionals do not know enough about and unfortunately they are happy to tell you to give up breastfeeding when the medical evidence actually doesn't support this.

Interestingly the consultant who treated me spoke to his sister who was a senior member of the Royal College of Midwives and her advice was that the benefits of breastfeeding outweigh the risks of the medication. That was enough to convince me.

Thanks nigglewiggle - i will mention Fragmin if she asks for any more info.

I also think when you are in hosp, worried about your own health, you have to trust that the medics know what they're talking about. it's all very well saying she can find out for herself, she's an adult, etc. but she's prob not feeling that 'up for a fight' and when docs start threatening baby death from haemorrghing (sp?!), of course you will take their advice.

I can understand the doctors being very careful about recommending something where the risks had not been properly evaluated (and the anecdotal evidence of two or three mums who had breastfed on warfarin and nothing happened is not the same as a large properly evaluated study). If something did go wrong, the responsibility would be theirs. If I were them I would also err on the side of caution.

Not recommending something that has not been proved to be safe doesn't strike me as being "very ignorant". It strikes me as showing proper caution.

the flipside is, that a lot of women give up breastfeeding, struggle with it, consent to unecessary interventions during pregnancy and birth because of what they are advised

there is a lot to be said for asking questions, reading around a subject and asking for an alternative viewpoint

you could get 3 obstetricians with teh same patient, and i am sure 3 different care plans would result..

listening without questioning is not always the right thing

as several people have posted, they have breastfed whilst on clexane etc..

so the medics advising this friend would seem to be incorrect

Also, the docs may turn out to be right, maybe she's on some combo/dose that means bf is not safe, we don't know.

But if she came out tomorrow, stuck with ff, and then next time i met her (or someone else) mentioned, oh i know so-and-so who carried on bf while on C & W, then she would feel worse surely? knowing she could have continued (with a few days ff to make up for/correct) but didn't on unsound medical 'advice'. I know i would rather be informed.

there is a difference between saying

'this drug has not been clinically trialled on pregnant or breastfeeding mothers, however it is prescribed to X number of breastfeeding women per year and seems to be safe so we can advise you are probably safe to continue breastfeeding'

and

'this drug is not safe and if you breastfeed whislt taking it, your baby will die'

My Mum was advised to stop breastfeeding me (aged 2 weeks) 30 years ago because she had mastitis. She is still angry about this completely wrong medical advice. If a knowledgeable friend had been around to support her in asking the right questions and doing the research for her while she was in hospital with a raging fever I'm sure she would have been delighted.

I think you're doing the right thing JustBeBuffy.

Lulumama

apologies

Blimey.

Some strong opinions here.

As a grown woman, the OP's friend is perfectly capable of making her own decision with the fullest information. This may not come from the doctors involved in her care - not because they don't have her best interests at heart but because they may not be aware of the limitations of their knowledge.

This would not be the first time that entire squads have told a mother not to breastfeed on the basis of no good information at all.

The correct and courteous and professionally respectful thing to do is to share any information that seems to contradict the doctors with the doctors. 'Thank you for your advice, doctor, but I have got this information from elsewhere - as you can see it is evidence-based and refers to up to date research in the field. Can I ask you to look at it, and then maybe explain if it applies to my situation or not? Thanks!'

No one needs think doctors always get it right. Nor is evidence-based information from, say, the Breastfeeding Network, the equivalent of 'random strangers off the internet'. OTOH, maybe this particular situation is different, maybe the dose is different....doctors need to be asked.

However, warfarin, for example, would not make bf 'extremely dangerous' - I don't know why people have to be so flippin dogmatic and scare mongering, on the basis of no evidence at all!

lulu

'this drug has not been clinically trialled on pregnant or breastfeeding mothers, however it is prescribed to X number of breastfeeding women per year and seems to be safe so we can advise you are probably safe to continue breastfeeding'

=

'this HPV vaccine has not been tested on those who are immuno compromised, but a number of girls have had it, so therefore we presume its safe for your daughter to have'

Do you see where Im coming from in this argument? If this was about anything else other than breastfeeding then most of you would be up in arms about it hysterically shouting 'well if its not been tested for 50 years and if just one person has had a reaction then my child isnt getting it'!

FWIW like I said previously we have no idea what medication they are discussing for this woman, we dont know her medical history and we dont know of any problems with the baby. It is of course important to question doctors on their decisions and then make yours accordingly (have done this enough times myself) but every person in this world is individual and what may work for one person may actually kill another IYKWIM. It is not appropriate for someone to get random info from an internet forum 'oh yes I took it and was fine' is a crap argument and not based on research.
If you want to help your friend justbe then gather some reliable information and pass it on to your friend for her to look at if and when she asks for it

That's exactly what justbe is doing, isn't it?

I'm trying Edam

Not trying hard enough if youre still listening to us lot

For the record:

{heard through a mutual friend that friend R is in hosp with dvt & baby T is on a bottle as docs have told her to stop bf}

JBB (Sat night): Heard you are in hosp, hope you are recovering well. Heard T is on a bottle. If you have the strength, from what i've read there's no need for you to stop bf. Or there will be help to restart. Hugs & best wishes.

R (Sun am): hi thanks for your message. spoken to 3 docs and all have said defo no bf as T could have an internal bleed as he's so small. I have got to be on these tablets for 6mo so think it's the end of my bf days which is so upsetting. will keep you updated on how i get on.

JBB: So sad for you. what drugs are you on? Warfarin, heparin & clexane all listed as safe on BfN.org.uk. Get well and home soon x

R: On warfarin & clexane but doctors and midwifes have said no?

JBB: Best thing is to ring the BfN helpline on.... normally have to leave a message and they ring you back.

Too pestery??? I hope not.

Not pestering at all.....I think you did the right thing, JustBe.