Really upset by what BFC said- is she right?

[roslily]

after a meltdown at weekend (I have PND) my husband gave son some formula. Since then he had one bottle a day, and it has made the world of difference. I want to continue breastfeeding, but the intensity and lack of having a break was causing me to crack.

So rather than give up we made a decision to mix feed.

Today BFC told us that formula will mess up his stomach, and mix feeding can't work as the stomach digests them in two different ways. She implied that I was selfish and that I might as well bottle feed now.

I really want to continue BF, is this impossible?

Argh. Now husband thinks she is right and should formula feed. I am on Citalopram and he thinks it is bad for me to breastfeed and take medications.

I will definitely complain about her.

Well I mixed fed for a few weeks (had to give up in the end but that's another story!) I did 50/50 - what you are doing is fine - ignore the BFC and have confidence that you are doing what's best for you and your family.

It is not your DHs choice to make. FWIW you could mix feed for a couple of weeks and go back to full BF. Whatever you decide it is your choice.

roslily - she did not even say you should formula feed

Perhaps your dh can telephone a real breastfeeding counsellor....unforch. the name is not protected, and people who are not breastfeeding counsellors can call themselves as such but if you call any of the several bf helplines you will (hopefully) speak to a trained person who will listen, not judge, and who has good information.

The breastfeeding network breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk has a great factsheet on antidepressants and bf - bf plus anti-ds is not unsafe or 'bad' for your baby.

You have had such a struggle - I am for you that this unsuitable bf person has made it worse for you.

Hallo roslily. Glad to hear from you.

You mentioned some queries about the safety of taking citalopram whilst bf. tiktok's advice excellent.

In addition and sorry if this blinds you with science but I looked up a couple of things that refer specifically to that medication

www.babycenter.com/0_drug-safety-during-breastfeeding_8790.bc

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16934048?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

If you still have concerns about the medication, my (limited) understanding is that celexa is an SSRI and there are other SSRIs which may work just as well for you and which may be worth considering if you are worried. Perhaps you could discuss again with your GP?

A resource (of sorts) is the pharmacy of the Portland Hospital. You could call them and ask if they prescribe citalopram to mothers who are breastfeeding. (You do not need to be a patient). If yes, fine. If no, then ask what they do prescribe instead. This may then reassure you or give you enough information to go back to your GP with.

Thomas Hale's publication is considered fairly definitive on medications in pregnancy and bf. Not sure how easy it would be for you to access that. Maybe NCT or LLL counsellors?

Some breastmilk is better than none. Much better. For you and for baby. Many many babies do not get any breastmilk. I shall not comment on the MW in question. The others have already said exactly what needed to be said.

I also realise that just getting through the next feed/few hours/day may be proving difficult enough without perusing scientific journals or calling hospital pharmacies.

My aim is only to facilitate your access to resources if you want them.

Please know that I am hoping that things will get easier for you.

roslily, i am so cross on your behalf.

she clearly doesn't know half of what she's talking about.
it is true that formula (or anything other than breastmilk) can change the bacteria in the gut. breastmilk helps create and maintain a good lining in the gut.

BUT, even though formula changes this, it is arguable whether that change is "damaging" and it most certainly is not undoable. even the strongest advocates of the "virgin gut" argument agree that a couple of weeks of exclusive breastfeeding will return the gut to its previous state. so please don't worry.

you've had good advito agree that some breastmilk is a million miles better than none at all, that you can express whenever it suits you, and that you're doing just fine!
citalopram is fine for breastfeeding, it really isn't a problem.

sorry you have had such a rotten time, good luck with the feeding. agree about complaining - unless there's been a misunderstanding, sounds like bizarre misinformation from the mw re:mix feeding - a mw should be very familiar indeed with some babies having formula top-ups whilst in hospital for various reasons...

Had another thought which is that even if you are mixed feeding at the moment, it is possible to go to ebf later.

Jack Newman refers to a case where a mother who had never bf her 4 month old baby (never evn put the baby to the breast) managed to start nursing him at 4 mths.

His theory about relactation is as follows:

"The mother who wants to relactate will have to put some work into it. Determination and the refusal to give up easily are the keys."

In your case you are "already ahead": you started off bf, you are still bf and should you decide to try later for ebf I believe that is still an option. And even though things are difficult for you, you seem pretty determined to me.

Keep going

Roslily, DS1 had one formula feed in the evening from about 5 weeks until about 6m. It remained just one bottle a day throughout that time.

It worked very well for all of us, and in our case wasn't the "slippery slope" towards total ff that I initially feared.

Sounds like a very unpleasant person you came across - there are issues about mixed feeding and I think that women using formula should be aware of those - but I also think that having the information on such things as how it can affect your supply might help women who decide they need to mix feed avoid the problems.

Whatever the facts about what she said, it's totally wrong that she made you feel selfish and I agree that you should complain.

Is there a local bf support group near you, and/or can you contact other BFCs by phone or in person?

Good luck.

What an absolute load of piffle. Makes me really on your behalf.

roslily my DS has been mixed fed from the beginning. Plan was to exclusively breast-feed but due to a very minor medical complication he had to have a formula feed when he was about 16 hours old.

Once formula is introduced the benefits of the allergy protection you get from ebf is lost. BUT, if by giving your baby a bottle of formula once a day and continuing to breast-feed helps you to keep breast-feeding then I say definitely worth it.

I am still breast-feeding DS and he is 6 and a half months now. I plan to keep going until he is at least a year old. He still has a bottle of formula a day... and I have never had any supply issues.

I think it is rubbish to suggest that by giving one bottle of formula you won't be able to breast feed or will have supply problems. Breast feeding works on a supply and demand basis. So you will produce enough milk for your baby, less one feed which you will replace with formula.

FWIW I did an experiment when DS was around 4 1/2 mo to see if I could ebf him. And I did! For two weeks AND he went through a massive growth spurt at the same time. I still gave one bottle per day, but of expressed breast milk.

I found it helpful to express when DS would normally have his last feed at night and DH would give him a bottle. Some nights DS had formula in that bottle, some nights formula and ebm and other times just ebm depending on how much I had expressed and if DH remembered to check before making up the feed.

Every breast feed makes a difference. Please don't give up. The benefits to you and your baby are worth perservering.

Best of luck to you

Manicmummy - you're right of course about the fact that partial breastfeeding is sometimes possible, but you are underestimating the challenge.

For some women, one bottle of formula a day seriously undermines breastfeeding. This is especially the case if it is introduced fairly early on.

Not for all women.

Clearly, not for you.

But for some, it does.

You are misunderstanding, or rather, misrepresenting, the 'supply and demand' thing. Dropping a breastfeed and substituting with a bottle of formula doesn't have no effect - the longer gap between breastfeeds that results reduces supply and in the early weeks, especially, this reduction in feeding frequency signals to the body to wind down its production overall. Result can be a lessening of breastmilk and an insufficiency.

This is not an issue later on, and bf can continue long term with less frequent stimulation of the production line.

I do agree with you that for some women, a formula bottle a day can actually help them continue breastfeeding - but it is a balancing act and not as simple as you make out, sorry.

Is that true? That once you introduce a bottle of formula the allergy protection of breastfeeding is lost?

The 'allergy protection' of breastfeeding is one of the least evidence-based claims about breastfeeding...but if there is protection against allergy, and there may be (it's not an unlikely notion) then it's likely that it requires exclusive breastfeeding to be maintained ie no formula.

But no one should be dogmatic about this. 'Cos we really cannot be sure.

I actually find the "breastfed babies don't get as sick" thing difficult to take. I am sure there is evidence, but anecdotelly, taking account of my friends with babies- one has exclusively breastfed and at 9 weeks her baby has his 3rd cold, one has formula fed from 1 week and at 1 year old he has never even had a cold or any illness.

I actually wonder whether the info on breastfed vs formula fed babies and illness has more to do with the types of families that breastfeed? Just a thought.

This feel like the hardest decision I have ever had ot make. Something else to add into mix is that when I breastfeed my son is very sick afterwards- even doctor agrees it is more than possiting (thought to be reflux) but after formula feeds he isn't.

My husband believes that I shouldn't continue BF just because I think it is the right thing to do. He points out that we were both FF and just fine. He honestly believes that he is helping me. That by FF I can enjoy my son, and have a break at the same time. he is worried that I am finding it difficut to bond beacuse of feeding issues.

I mixed fed my DS from when he was five months (he was EBF up to then) and it actually helped me to carry on BF at that point - stopped me from thinking 'I'm too knackered, I'll just give up'.

While exclusively breastfeeding is good for health, some breastmilk is better than none and most importantly of all being a good mum is about much more than breastmilk. You're doing great - get support from kind people who make you feel better. This woman sounds like she's more of a misinformed crusader than a genuine supporter...

Thanks tiktok

Rosilly - You sound just like me a few months ago. It is so hard when you want to breastfeed but are struggling and don't family support to continue.

What you need to remember is that as much as you want what's best for your son, your husband loves you and wants you to be happy -it is really hard to watch your loved one struggling with something that he can help with (i.e. by giving formula) but not being able to. He doesn't have the same emotional tie to breastfeeding that you do.

Of course you can continue breastfeeding if you want to mixed feed. If you are worried about your supply, you can express while your husband gives a bottle - It's quite nice if you can do it while you have a nice bath. I've also taken to expressing anytime we go on a car journey of over 15 minutes (obviously if husband is driving).

I have really felt for you in all your posts - you sound like you're having a really tough time of it I hope you manage to find a solution that works for your family.

WRT him being sick after breastfeeds but not bottles- have you tried feeding him in a more upright position? I know you probably have but thought i'd suggest it anyway.

The good research and evidence is clear - formula fed infants are at greater risk of illness. Colds and sniffles are not really counted in the research - we are talking about the sort of conditions that need medical and possibly hospital attention. This does not mean that breastfed babies don't get a cold or a cough.

The 'type of families' the babies come from is controlled for in the research, so any differences in social and economic background are not factors in the calculations and conclusions.

Being sick after a breastfeed is so normal and common, it's not a sign of anything at all....possibly the formula stays down as it is a bit thicker.

Roslily, if you no longer want to breastfeed, and feel you have no support to breastfeed, then of course you are free to stop The bonding and tiredness thing are things you obv. need to take into account and to gauge their importance is something only you can do.

There is more, a lot more, to infant feeding than the health reasons - but looking for health reasons in your baby to make it 'ok' to stop is kidding yourself, sorry.

I realise that tiktok, sort of just writing stuff down helps. Good to know about the research.

You are right that my husband just wants me to be happy, and he has felt helpless to help.

Obviously it is a decision for us all to make, my husbands mind is made up, I just need round decide. Why does it feel like the hardest decision in the world?

Hope you come to a decision, or a decision to make a decision , that works for you, roslily.

It feels like a hard decision because it matters how babies are fed...you know that, you long to breastfeed, and yet you are so very torn. Of course it is hard

I mix fed my DS for 6 months, and it worked for us. He had no trouble with digestion, grew at a steady rate and was and still is happy and healthy (he's now 3). Good luck, you have to do what is right for you.