Training to be a BF Support Worker....BF & non BF mummys what are your biggest concerns? Feedback appreciated.

[clouiseg]

I am Training to be a Voluntary Breast Feeding Peer Support Worker for the La Leche League.

Just wanted to put my feelers out and see what the general (and most common) concerns are in the real world?!

I BF dd1, FF dd2 and mixed fed dd3. Have had cracked nips, poor latch, mastitis, the works!!

I am volunteering to help other mums and mums to be both in the home and in the Post natal wards (plus lobbying to offer antenatal support before LO's arrive!).

The only problem I have faced, is that in my very small group of fellow trainees, 99% have found BF a breeze with little or no difficulty. I feel that gaining a realistic picture of worries, concerns, anxieties or even just opinions would enable me to give the group an insight into what it is like to struggle to BF at times.

Any comments, input or funny stories would be much appreciated!

Thanks, Claire. xxxx

well done for doing the training!

I have a 19 wk old DS who went to scbu for two days after birth. I had fantastic encouragement and help from the midwives and nurses there was just one nurse who said I shouldn't be trying to get him to feed for so long (!) I had been sat with my brand new baby son gazing at him in awe with a breast on offer for an hour and a half I hadn't been trying to get him it was just there if he wanted it (he did have a couple of sucks a few times and then went back to snuffling and staring)
I think that could be quite harmful to someone less -stubborn- confident.

My other concern was there was never a routine, I wish someone had told me that he could feed every 45 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours, 30 mins 5 hours.......I might have got some more sleep when he did go for 5 hours rather than sat staring at him breathing after 3 hours............
If I could go back and give myself advice it would be give yourself two weeks to get to know your baby and just feed when they ask, then you begin to trust your instict and it gets better ooh and don't worry when you start to almost get a routine then it goes back to every 45 mins, just go with it and try to smile!! hope that's some use to you
best of luck

Also totally agree with needacupoftea. When I was on the maternity ward I could hear so many women struggling with breast feeding and you could just tell that all they wanted was for someone to tell them that it was ok to bottle feed. I really felt for them as they were coming up with every excuse in the book (not that I'm saying you were doing this needacupoftea! ) and the MWs were either not picking up on this or were totally ignoring it.

I could tell this, because it's exactly how I was after 6 months of BF DD, I wanted my HV to say it was ok to ff now, I'd done a good job, not to beat myself up etc, but instead she just said, 'well any BF you can give will be a bonus'. So I went away feeling like a bad mum for wanting to wean onto the bottle. I think women need to know it's ok to bottle feed if they feel that this is how they want to feed their baby and that they are still good Mums.

I disagree, Ladyem. If you read most of the posts here (and on a lot of other threads) you will see that a lot of women do struggle with bf-ing in the beginning. Very few women/babies crack it in the first few days. In my opinion they would be given bad advice indeed if they were simply told after a day or two of trying that it was ok to switch to ff. What they really need is support and help in trying to get to grips with it and lots and lots of encouragement. Which is not to say that they should be bullied into it if they don't want to do it, if they don't want to do it - fine. But if everyone gave up at the first hurdle then very few babes would be bf which would be very sad.

ladyem - how can you 'just tell' what someone is really thinking or wanting on day 1 or 2 postnatal?

Someone struggling with breastfeeding needs help and support to make it easier - not someone reading their minds and guessing that what they 'really' want to hear is that it's ok to bottle feed.

If you wanted your HV to tell you it was ok to ff, why not just share your feelings and your needs with her?

A good HV (and midwife) will listen, not judge, and be open to the other person's feelings. She won't try to change someone's mind or guess what is actually in her mind.

Ladyem if I had been on your maternity ward and had told me that I would have belted you.

Yes it may be 'ok' but I didn't want to, I shouldn't have to, and I definitely didn't need anyone reading my mind.

1. Exhaustion. I REALLY do not do very well with little sleep, like suicidal not well. BF DD was torture for me for this reason. I mix fed from 3 days old to 5 1/2 months and even then I was really suffering. I know, everyone says you'll sleep better if you BF cos of the hormones, well that did not appear to be the case for me! Maybe I just didn't feed enough, I don't know. Every feed I offered breast first though...

1. DD lost 11% of her birth weight at 3 days, so when we took her in for some pretty bad jaundice we were kept in the postnatal ward. To 'support' my breastfeeding I was assigned a BF support worker. I found the whole other people manhandling and squeezing and pinching my boobs incredibly humiliating and violating. I don't like DH touching my boobs very much (poor guy, I know), never mind other people.

1. I never felt like DD was getting an adequate feed. I was always unsure about her latching properly, it just never felt right. The times I was told it was a good latch were indistinguishable from the bad.

1. PLEASE understand that for some of us BF is an absolute nightmare, and a rough introduction into parental guilt, do NOT add to it with flippant comments! Sure it's all so bloody easy for some of you, I'm happy for you, but it makes the rest of us feel like failures. Bear this in mind when confronted with a struggling BF mother.

Wow ladies, what a response!!

Well I'm off to my group shortly and have noted down all of the different concerns and points raised.

The most alarming thing I have noted is the overwhelming feeling that there is/has been a lack of support!

Breastfeeding IS a personal choice
It IS NOT easy for everyone (I know first hand!)
Women ARE encouraged to BF (which is fine as long as it doesn't become a pressure)
Women SHOULD NEVER feel under pressure/failiures/inadequate if they either can't or choose not to BF
There is obviously still a lack of information on offer and support is not easy to access for everyone.

I absolutely refuse to be one of the BF advocates who pressure mums or make them feel bad for their ultimate choice or decision. I myself have been made to feel useless, alone, frustrated etc, hence why I feel the need to offer support and positive reinforcement to mummys.

I hope you all keep posting, what a huge help!

The only thing I will say is that I feel fairly sad that 99% of the replies have been about negative experiences, which is indicative of the society we live in. Lets hope for more support and less judgement.

xxxx

oh and one more top tip

stop referring to us as bloody 'mummys'

we are women, we are mothers, our dcs may call us 'mummy' but that doesn't mean that you can

'mums' you may get away with but tbh it's more professional not to.

[rant over, sorry - this is one that really gets my goat]

Sorry, I think that I didn't express myself very well (sleep deprivation from being up with my 6 weeks old!) All I wanted to say was that some women don't feel able to say that they don't want to BF and this should be taken into account. I'm really upset that it came across wrong and that I was trying to read people's minds. Of course those who want to BF need support.

no worries Ladyem - Tiktok was, as always, more rational than me!

ok, ladyem

I have to say that I am struggling, first with pain, bleeding nipples, mastitis and exhaustion. I have not coped well with the constant demands. I have actually broken down and refused to feed my son (4weeks). Anyway I am considering mix feeding, and am under pressure from family to FF because the state got myself in.

Anyway I agree with ladym, when I have told HV, midwives, counsellers of my feelings they just say "It gets easier" or "that is what breastfeeding is like". What I needed was someone to say if I gave up I wasn't a failure as a mother.

roslily

I can totally understand your feelings about this, but it's not true that the only thing you have heard is 'it gets easier' etc etc. I am a breastfeeding counsellor, and along with other people supporting you on these boards, we have responded to you by (in at least one instance) specifically underlining that giving up does not mean 'failure as a mother'. However, you have been equally explicit in saying 'I don't want to give up'.

If you say to people in real life the same thing, ie 'I don't want to give up' then they are likely to take you at your word! And they tell you that it can be hard, but here are some ways to make it less hard....

No one can read a mother's mind. If she says 'I don't want to stop breastfeeding' then in what universe is the correct response, 'if you stop it is fine'?

Of course no mother 'fails' as a mother if she stops breastfeeding. There is more to mothering than feeding method.

I am sure breastfeeding counsellors speak to women in real life who 'really' want to be told 'formula feeding is ok' and not 'how about doing X Y or Z to make breastfeeding better?' But I'm not in the business of deciding what a woman 'really' wants to do....I can make it possible for her to tell me, and be open to it, and listen to her concerns, but if she tells me one thing, and yet 'really' means the opposite, then I draw a blank, sorry!

If, on the other hand, she treats me as a normal non-psychic individual and says, 'I'm considering giving up breastfeeding but I have very conflicted feelings about it' we can start a proper dialogue.

Sorry tiktok, I meant in real life, not on here. I appreciate the honest advice given on here.

I apologise I am feeling very sensitive about the whole issue.

'Sok, roslily I know you are feeling v.v. rough.

Seriously though - if you did tell people in real life 'I don't want to stop' then they are likely to believe you!

I do peer support as well, and I am finding that by the time the women are referred to us, very often they have run into problems already.

If the support could start in the hospital, I believe that there would be fewer women running into problems. Prevention being better than cure and all that.

I think our infant feeding advisors are working on getting peer supporters into the hospital, but these things take forever.

I agree that more needs to be available in hospitals.

What would have really helped me would have been someone coming to visit us at home in the first few days. I phoned so many helplines but no one could come out and advice on the phone wasn't the same. It isn't always easy to get out to a baby cafe or similar in the first couple of weeks either.

mawbroon: there are already people in hospital trained and able to support early breastfeeding. If they are not doing the job properly, I don't think volunteers should fill the gap....especially as these problems on the ward can be quite tricky technically.

Peer supporters are wonderful, but their training does not include getting fighting, stressed, drugged babies on the breast. Peer support training focusses on social support and friendship, and an understanding of normal breastfeeding.

mawbroon - following up my post I am open to knowing a bit more about what peer supporters might do, and how they would avoid getting into diffculties....I do know it seems to work in some places but I am sceptical, and am also not keen on 'allowing' insufficient midwifery help.

mrsjuan and tiktok I am surprised they not have PSCs in hospitals in your area. I'm not sure which PCT you are under, but in our area us Peer Supporters are already in place to attend the wards with LCs and co-ordinators to help new mums. Its been highlighted as one of the major areas lacking in sufficient help and support.

There is not enough support from midwives on most PN wards, largely due to the huge workload they have to deal with. They just don't have the time. I have of course discussed this with several candidly honest midwives (2 of whom are very good friends of mine)and had first hand experience. My dd had lost 12% of her body weight after 72 hours, was severlely dehydrated AND ended up on Transitional care before anyone actually came to see me. And believe me, it wasnt through lack of trying. But the poor MWs just didnt have time to sit with me and assumed that because I had BF before I would manage ok. And I did protest!! No Psychic practice involved!

I did have a chat with our LC yesterday, as well as 2 HVs who suggested to the ladies with more complex issues (like SCBU/tube fed babies) etc, that you should ask your HV to refer you, or advise you. These situations require the correct level of training and experience, and as previously mentioned, PSCs are primarily here to offer emotional support and pathways to further help & resources if required.

MrsBadger regarding your 'rant' about my use of the word 'mummys', I don't feel it neccessary for you to be quite so hostile. I truly apologise if you feel patronised or uncomfortable with it, that is not my intention. However, many years of working with children (as a childminder etc) has conditioned me to use the word. I do not find anything wrong, rude, or disrespectful in it. And I for one am very proud to be called a mummy! With the utmost respect to you, I do not feel that is a constructive 'tip', especially when we are discussing a subject which is so obviously much more important. I myself feel more obliged to focus on the issues and struggles some of the ladies on here have faced/are facing. That said, from this point on I will no longer refer to anyone as a 'mummy'!

roslily there is no need to apologise. Of course you feel sensitive. Have you managed to speak to anyone about the problems you have had? I mean face to face? I am sorry, I havent followed your previous posts.

tiktok I remember you gave me some excellent advice when I was PG with dd3 and faced some terrible problems. It was ages ago so I'll thank you now!! I very much value your opinion and wondered if you'd mind me asking how long you have been a PSC? Also, have you heard of the 'knitted boob'? The BBC came and filmed us at our group recently, centred solely around the boob. It was aired last week (and our LC didn't realise she was filmed in the background shovelling cakes into her mouth bless her!) I just wondered if you had any knowledge of it? Tbh the first reactions from friends etc is to giggle! But there is logic behind it! And besides, we need to appeal for more knitters!!

Maybe I should have put a grin or a wink in my post - I didn't been to be hostile or belittle any of the other problems raised on this thread - it just seems to me to be a wildly unprofessional form of address.

My work occasionally involves under-12s in a medical context and we would never dream of referring to them as 'kids' or 'kiddies' (and yes I know you are a volunteer not a HCP).

IME the attitude of the BF supporters women meet can have a huge impact on the effectiveness of their interactions.

NB 'many years of working with children' is a different kettle of fish - talking to children is different to talking to adults.

How does your LLL trainer refer to bfing women?

Have to say I agree about hating being called 'mummy', I also hated it when midwives used 'baby' as though it was DS's name. I have no problem with their referring to him as 'the baby' when talking to another HP, but I hated 'baby'. Put my back up and made me feel hostile towards them - which wasn't going to help with getting me to BF.

Yes I am well aware that talking to children is different to talking to adults! Actually, our HV (who also runs the course) uses the term 'mummys' on occasion ! lol. She says "all you lovely mummys...".

I appreciate what you are saying in terms of the professionalism aspect, especially in your work. I would never refer to a woman as 'mummy' in any situation where I was offering advice, least of all on a one to one basis. But as long as I am following procedure and guidelines, I would rather come across as warm and gentle than stern and too professional iykwim? I have a GP like that and she terrifies me! When I used it in my post it was meant more tongue in cheek rather than me being odd! Kind of rallying the troops if that makes any sense?!

The thing with forums is its very easy to misunderstand the context of certain comments!

The best Bf counsellor I spoke to was so comforting and really reassuring, on such nice level and not at all difficult to open up to. I think its because she seemed 'human' and immediately put me at ease. In fact she was so sweet, I would aspire to be like her.

clouiseg: I'm not a peer support co-ordinator, I am an NCT breastfeeding counsellor.

I'm not against peer supporters on the wards, not at all. I know they work well in some areas, but I also know of others where they are there as a cheap (actually free!) to plug the gaps in what should be the normal service and that is utterly wrong - what happens is that a peer supporter, a volunteer who has had perhaps 25 hours training not in breastfeeding problems but in supporting normal, happy breastfeeding, is faced with a real problem. It is not fair to the peer supporter and not fair to the mother and baby. In situations where the PS is supported and is assertive and can recognise the need for other input, then fine....she can alert a midwife. Believe me - this does not always happen.

Workload is an issue, I agree. The answer is not volunteers. But more of an issue with our maternity wards is purely lack of knowledge. Breastfeeding is often sabotaged by poor institutional practices and rubbish information. We read it all the time on these boards.

You were treated badly, being left like that without care. It's disgraceful. And peer supporters are not the answer to that low level of care.

As a supplementary support, then I think PS could have a role, well-supervised and supported themselves. But maternity wards should never be in a position to have to rely on them.

Glad I helped you, BTW

On the 'mummies' debate - I am sure you did not mean any offence, clouiseg...but I wouldn't use the word while working as a breastfeeding counsellor, because there is a risk someone might think I was being patronising, even if I wasn't

Best avoided, IMO.