Accurate studies of Breast/ Bottle pros and cons

[dyzzidi]

HI. I really don't want a huge debate as I feel that has been done already. I am hoping some of you can post links to clinical studies of the pro's and cons. I have not made my mind up what I am going to do but would like to read some clinical research before I decide and would like to read a few different studies.

I believe it is such a personal choice that most peoples views will be slightly biased.

Sorry i do not intend to offend any of you.

I know I would get assistance on a maternity ward but the Surgeon said I will be on the High Dependency unit post op for a few days and the nurses there may not be able to give the support.

God I sound like such a whinger but I can imagine beeing laid up and being desperate to see my baby and worrying about feeding.

I will ask relevant questions when I see the surgeon but they seem to be more concerned with the severity of the operation than details like breastfeeding.

You are not whinging, it's understandable that you will be concerned about seeing your new baby.

Can you speak to your midwife?

You CAN express straight away (but you need to be able to do it often enough to keep yr supply going) Check out the link below for some excellent advice from a mother who had to express for hers:
www.expressyourselfmums.co.uk

As others have said though, really don't feel guilty if you can't b/f or express. It's horrible how often women are made to feel bad (intentionally or otherwise)about giving formula.

Oliveoil My midwife at the GP is a horrible cow! (see otherr thread) I have refused to see her again. I am only early on in pregnancy so at the hospital they keep saying we will discuss it nearer the time.

It's silly to feel a need to get this organised now as I do have months to go but it is really playing in my mind.

You're very sussed to be thinking about it now dizzydi. Yours is obviously an exceptional case and you need specialist help. Have you rung the association for Breastfeeding Mothers' helpline nad had a chat with them? They could put you in touch with someone local who will give you the support and practical advice you need.

I didn't really want to ring or contact a breastfeeding association as they tend to be very one sided which may add to my feelings of guilt.

I will consult at the hospital when I go next.

I find mumsnet can have a broad range of people instead of One view and everything else is wrong.

Oh for God's sake!! Don't you think that these overworked volunteers have better things to do than force you to do something? What's in it for them after all?

Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn..................

STOP FEELING GUILTY IMMEDIATELY .

You may find that some peoples view is not that broad on this subject ho ho ho.

And while I'm at it,I'll just say that there is a lot of meaningless psychobabble spouted about 'bonding'.

Bottles of formula are neither here nor there in this mythical over idealised process.

Aw c'mon Moondog, you know I love ya but that first article headline! If it was in the Daily Mail you'd all be calling it sensationalist!!!! It's rather OTT and most formula fed babies are testament to that!

That's my last word - will not get involved again

Now now ladies, no fighting purlease x

sorry have to agree with Pruni here.

One of the tables that they have uses the countries "Mexico, brazil, Pakistan and the Phillipines".....of COURSE the risk of dying through the use of formula instead of breastmilk will be higher in those poorer countries!

And the website it was 'first' published on seems a little too 'earth mother' for my liking.

Don't get me wrong I BF my first for 14 months and KNOW that "breast is best"........but I also Bottlefed my DS2 almost from birth and it didn't kill him either.

You can express from birth because some mothers of premature babies do just that. Whether you, personally, would be ablt to is somethign different entirely (although the hospital should have a damn good electric pump you could use). If you could give your baby the first few feeds so he/she gets the colustrum then that is a huge benefit for them. If youcan't feed/express after than then it's not the end of the world and you know you've managed to give them something. If you can't manage even that? Your child gets fed and nurtured in the best way available.

Of course breast milk is best but sometime breastfeeding just doesn't work out and formula is an adequate alternative.

I'm not sure clinical studies are going to help you reach a decision becaiuse it sounds like it might be out of your hands anyway.

Dyzzidi, I'll just give you my history as it may help.
I had placenta praevia on ds3 and bled really, really heavily just before having an emergency C-section. Looked like death warmed up. ds3 was born at 32 weeks and was whisked up to NICU straight away. I had breastfed ds1 and ds2 for a year each and had expressed milk for them after I went back to work so was expecting to breastfeed. Ds3 was just given fluids intravenously for the first day. I told the hospital staff that I wanted to breastfeed so was set up with a pump in the ward. Even though I was so unwell I managed to express 90ml of colostrum/milk for ds3 the first time I used the pump but bear in mind I had breastfed 2 children already. I doubt that I would have been so successful if it were my first baby. At that age ds3 was too young to suck (or so they said!) and was given my milk by tube. I expressed 3 hourly and made much more milk than he needed. Still have a freezer full! Over the next 2 weeks he learned to feed from a bottle and when I got him home was fully breastfed. I was told to take 2 iron tablets a day but would not advise ANYBODY to do this, it wreaked havoc with my digestive system! My point is, that even if you are very ill and weak after surgery it can be done. I also have no doubt that it would have been easier for me at this time to rest up, not have to keep washing and sterilising a pump on a 3 hourly basis, even through the night. But it was better for ds3, and ultimately when he got home I could then forget about all the sterilising etc and just feed my baby the easy way. hth, sorry it was so long!

Dyzzidi -- I don't know anything about fibroids. Any way you could postpone that surgery? However you feed the baby, it would kill me to leave my baby so soon after the birth. I'd be keen to delay surgery if possible...

dyzzidi, because you are open to breastfeeding/bottle feeding hopefully this may help with breastfeeding. I had lots of friends who were really laid back and had the attitude if it works then great but if not I will switch to formula and they all found breastfeeding a breeze. I, on the other hand was adament that I would breastfeed and refused to even find out anything about bottlefeeding and yet it did not work for me, I had a nightmare and had given up by two weeks.

It's your decision but I think it is worth giving it a try, make sure that you ask for plenty of support in hospital as this was the most difficult thing for me.

Having read more about your situation, I would say that for you, the list of pros and cons is very different from what mine was.

You sound like you are looking at all your options - I would say don't be fobbed off by the hospital if they just say it would be too difficult to help you breastfeed - make sure that they have thought about every way to help you.

And also don't read too much into the bonding thing with men feeding - DH is one of the most attentive and loving fathers I've ever seen (and DS ADORES him), but didn't feed DS EBM till he was about 6 months old, and even then only a couple of times a week.

Good luck - and if there's any way you can postpone surgery until breastfeeding's established, that may well be the path of least resistance, iyswim.

Thank you moondog for pointing out that volunteer helplines for breastfeeding do not aim to put pressure on people - if people call a breastfeeding line, they find people who are trained to listen to you, and find out what you want to know. I take many many calls about formula feeding, mixed feeding, weaning, switching to formula. I don't pressurise anyone. If they ask me 'what makes breastfeeding a healthier choice for the baby?' then I will give them a resume. One of the most common questions is 'is it all right for me to give my baby a bottle?' and I tell the truth - any formula reduces the health benefits of exclusive breastfeeding, and it may have an impact on your supply, especially if it increases. But for you, these reasons may not be as important as other aspects' and then we discuss what these aspects might be. If someone wants me to give her 'permission' to do something, then she'll be waiting a long time! It's up to her what she does!

I honestly only care about the breastfeeding in proportion to the amount the mother cares - that is the truth. If a mother doesn't want to breastfeed, or doesn't want to breastfeed exclusively, then I really couldn't give a monkey's...it's not my baby, it's hers, and she can feed it how she wants. I have a life, with my own problems, and I won't worry about hers if she isn't worrying

I do care about mothers deluding themselves, or being deluded with poor information, or confused by confusing information.

So eloquently put-as always tiktok!

dyzzidi, do you know yet whether you will be able to have your baby next to your bed when you are on the surgical ward? or will he/she be in the nursery/with DH? The reason I ask is my ds seemed to need feeding (bf) for hours on end in the first few days - it wasn't just a case of me feeding him and him then going back in his cot for a kip. Your baby may be v diff of course.

I had a cs and was able to get him out of the bedside cot myself after the first day, but all that feeding meant v little sleep for me (was too scared of squishing ds to feed lying down!).

Alternatively, you cd try to start establishing bf once you are off the surgical ward - it doesn't have to be from the v beginning. Tiktok wd be able to advise tho.

as moondog said, 'bonding' isn't everything it's cracked up to be - spending nice quiet time with your baby staring into each other's eyes will make you feel 'bonded', pacing round the bedroom trying to get the screaming mite off to sleep yet again that night won't. It isn't really anything to do with feeding IMO.

Gwenwick - that is the point of that table....the author is stating that the risk of morbidity and mortality is known in these developing/deprived settings and she wanted to find out how and if the differential applied to a Western setting, like the USA. Maybe you didn't read that far?

Can't see the relevance of the 'earth mother' context of the original site. If you find the article compellingly convincing, or a load of made-up figures and rubbish, or somewhere in between, surely the website where it first appeared is not relevant?

Carolina, I agree about bonding. It is plain misguided (and even a bit insulting to loving dhs of breastfeeding mothers?) to assume a father needs to put a bit of plastic and rubber in a baby's mouth in order to bond with him or her. The closeness and contact a father has when bottle feeding can be equally well achieved by bathing, skin to skin contact, holding, nappy changing...yes, nappy changing, with its eye contact, its opportunities for gentle tenderness and talking, singing, touching, reassuring, relationship-building.

I have a friend (male) who boasted to me once that he has a great relationship with his teenage kids because his partner bottle fed. If only it was that simple!

If a father is really, genuinely concerned about the health of his baby, and the well-being of his wife, he will do all he can to support her in breastfeeding. That might include doing a stint with a bottle of EBM - but that's up to the woman.

Gwenwick - that is the point of that table....the author is stating that the risk of morbidity and mortality is known in these developing/deprived settings and she wanted to find out how and if the differential applied to a Western setting, like the USA. Maybe you didn't read that far?

Yes I read that far - but I feel that you can't really compare a 'western' country such as the US/UK (where almost everyone has access to clean water, and the majority are literate - so KNOW how to use the formula properly) to a country where sanitation and literacy are low..........

No where in that article did I find reference to what % of those that were not breastfed that the figures related to........eg

"Representing 16% of U.S. infant mortality totals, premature birth and low birth-weight are the second leading diagnoses on death certificates of U.S. infants. "

How many of those were breastfed and how many recieved no breastmilk etc etc?

Also I believe that it's difficult to link a lot of the deaths 'squarely' on teh shoulders on whether or not they were breastfed - as with a lot of things in life, other factors will affect it - especially in America - money......if the parents can afford good medical care when their child gets sick the infant will have a higher chance of survival - regardless of method of feeding.

A parent struggling on social who can't afford decent medical care is much more likely to lose an infant to illness.

I know it says at the bottom of the article about different ethnic groups - but being rich/poor doesn't equate to colour.

If you read the information about Dr. Palmer (who wrote the article) you'll see that most of her 'lectures' and articles are based very much on the 'pro breastfeeding' 'pro attachment parenting' type debates and in my mind are therefore going to be biased in the reporting of it - ie "The DEADLY influence of Formula in America".

So not really the 'clinical' study that the original poster requested IMO

thought this was interesting:

Health Economics
The cost of hospital treatment in Scotland for bottle feeding related diarrhoeal illness in infants is £3.82 Million annually
(Broadfoot. 1995)
from scottish breastfeeding research site

But the article does do comparisons on the statistical risks for ff infants and all the countries are "civilised". The SIDS table shows figures for US, UK, NZ, Scandinavia and Germany for example. "A relative risk of 5 here means that an infant who receives formula statistically faces five times the risk of dying from SIDS as an infant who is breastfed."