Clare Byam-Cook

[MewsMum]

Hi there,
I've just been having a look through some of the breast feeding threads and just wanted to post a little note re CBC.

She is fantastic.
I gave birth to my little girl at St.Thomas' in May and although I found the midwives to be excellent the help that I got breastfeeding was awful.
It was sooo demoralizing as all the other mums in the ward seemed to be taking to it like ducks to water but I just couldn't get my little girl interested. I asked for help as having joined the NCT I had been well tutored in the 'breast is best' philosophy. However, even with my midwife painfully squeezing my nipple and another swinging the baby on to the boob (having shoved my nipple to her nose prior to no avail)it still wasn't working.
Nevertheless I was told to just keep trying as it would of course work and babies didn't really need feeding that early on - she'd be fine! We gave birth on the Wednesday, by Friday night the poor mite cried all night. By Saturday morning she was yellow, her lips were shrivelled and she looked small and exhausted.
At that point I had had ENOUGH. I had to ask for some formula and eventually it was brought to me with a syringe.
Her face when the food landed in her mouth was a picture and it still makes me cry to think about it.
From that moment on I started to bottle feed.
We left the hospital that day (I begged!) and went home, still trying the techniques taught by the NCT but to no avail. Nipple to nose, swing baby on, arm between legs etc etc. Really uncomfortable for both of us and pretty crap really.
By week 2 after 2 midwife visits and a health visitor we still weren't breast-feeding (although at least pumping). I then called the NCT breastfeeding help line and was told to 'place the naked baby onto my stomach as she would then shuffle her way up toward my breast and latch on'. Great - needless to say it didn't work. The NCT lady who could have come to the house was on holiday. I was left with a 'Good luuuck'.
Thankfully at that point a friend gave me a number for Clare Byam-Cook. She made an appointment, came to the house and had us feeding within the hour. Her common sense approach was just wonderful and she removed so much awful NCT induced guilt. She could see from the pump that I wasn't making much milk and suggested to combine bottle and boob which worked wonders.
My little girl is 9 weeks old this week, we are still breast feeding and occasionally adding a bottle when necessary. My daughter sleeps 6-7 hours each night and happily feeds every 3-4 hours.
We're still not great breast-feeders (we are better feeding at home than in Starbucks) but we are doing it pain free and we are still here!
So many other mums I know who started with the NCT method have already or are considering giving up. To be honest I am really not surprised.
So - if you are struggling DO consider other advice. The main merit of an NCT teacher is that they have breast fed themselves for 6 months. Well, I am glad that they found it so easy... some of us just don't and I'm so glad we called in the Big Guns rather than just giving up. There is a really anti CBC vibe on this site, which is really sad.
I found her to be friendly, polite and ultimately a well-informed source of breast feeding guidance. The NCT could definitely learn a thing or two...

"topping her up with a bottle until she was getting enough from me". But that's wrong too. Topping up doesn't help increase supply - it does exactly the opposite.

And I think (where's Tiktok?!) that NCT BFCs do 3 years' training.

I am sorry you didn't have a good experience with the local NCT person, but you can't write off a whole organisation based on that.

disclaimer - I've never met anyone trained or employed by the NCT. Ever!

Noooooo god not partial in THAT way!! :O
He gives good homeopath advice.. tee hee.

Ooh my master calls.. must be food time.

Seee you.

ps. It costs, but what I decide to spend my money on.. and how much? Well, it's like the partner asking about how much I spent on a nice pair of shoes!!! :O
It depends upon whether you go to her or she comes to you. But if you did need to use her services she'll give you the cost over the phone.

Why the secrecy over costs? Worried it might affect your her business?

How odd.

so really very expensive then?

and more than a free NCT volunteer

Veeery fishy .

So, who's ringing CBC to ask her how much she charges then?

i hired a lactatation consultant over 3 years ago for a 1 - 2 - 1 session (around 2 hours) and it was £120

still gave up breastfeeding

am sure CBC charges comparably if not more

This is the OPs only thread on MN.

Sorry TheCrackFox, maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned that way
It's not so bad, I think that if you go to her it is £80.
I'd have loved the free NCT volunteer but she was on holiday (and wasn't even in my area, supposedly they didn't have one in my area) and the lady who was helping at St.Thomas' ... well, didn't help.
I was left feeling really demoralised by the NCT BF phone line.. and I'm sure that I'm not the only one.
We're feeding now though. And that is all that counts.
Only we're not, because I'm typing!!
Must go but don't be fed up just because I had a bad experience with the NCT and think that Clare is fab. I'm sure that I'm not the only one.
x

What's an OP?
Sorry, I only just joined. Bit slow on the uptake.

OP = Origional post/ poster

i.e you , as you started the thread

How can you have just joined, but know that there is a "really anti CBC vibe on this site" (quoting you)?

This is weird.

Can I just add my voice to the chorus and confirm the ability to pump milk has no bearing on how sucessfully you can bf. I bf my 2 dds for a year each and have never expressed more than 2oz in my life. In fact couldn't express a drop for dd2.

Thank you. As you were.

On the one hand I'm very pleased for you OP and sorry that you feel you are getting some 'challenging' responses when you expected only praise.

On the other hand you were aware when you wrote the OP of some anti CBC sentiment on this sight, so really you should be aware that some people are going to challenge what you are saying.

Glad to hear you are still breastfeeding though, well done.

On the one hand I'm very pleased for you OP and sorry that you feel you are getting some 'challenging' responses when you expected only praise.

On the other hand you were aware when you wrote the OP of some anti CBC sentiment on this sight, so really you should be aware that some people are going to challenge what you are saying.

Glad to hear you are still breastfeeding though, well done.

Do you think Daisy Goodwin and CBC share the same PR?

You'd think with what they're charging they'd be able to employ someone who's done it before...

site

Oh because I started having a nose around the discussions and got engrossed in a really, really long one about Annabel Karmel.
Someone got me her book.
oh crikey... just had a nappy so bad it went through and onto the gymini. Hmmm lovely.
Better change her and get feeding.

Will check back in later.
x

I am loving this thread, I don't want to leave but have an appointment to have my eyebrows shaped

What's a gymini?

This is a weird thread.

One of the great things you'll find about Mumsnet is that you can be given bad advice such as the amount of milk you can express being an indication of supply elsewhere and then you can come on here and re-educated by someone like Tiktok who is actually a qualified breastfeeding counsillor and know a fair more about how breastfeeding works than CBC does.

Enjoy

MewsMum - I'm glad you are still bf too.

I suppose I get suspicious as the first mention of CBC (who I had never heard of before today) when I google is on GFs website. And I feel that if you have been round long enough to know that there is an anti-CBC "vibe" on MN, then you would have figured out what an OP is by now.

But nevermind ....

Hmmm sounds like maybe YOU were feeling guilty not NCT making you feel guilty. And really, given the dismal figures for BF in this country i think they are right to take the breast is best approach.

you say the baby wasn't interested. what does that actually mean? i think a lot of breastfeeding woes in general are nothing to do with the baby and everything to do with the mother. im sorry if that's not the case in this instance but there simply cant be as many babies who cant feed as people say there are otherwise the whole human race would have been wiped out.

the truth is BF is f***g hard and we're all unused to anything being hard at all. we dont even need to scrub floors anymore.

good evening to y'all

Hi, MewsMum. It's good you found help for your breastfeeding.

I am an NCT breastfeeding counsellor, and don't know of any 'NCT method' - NCT breastfeeding counsellors do not normally teach any single way of breastfeeding and the one you describe (arm between legs???) is unknown to me, sorry. You sound as if you have had terrible help in hospital - squeezing the nipple, shoving the nipple to the nose and leaving your baby unfed all that time - dreadful.

We(NCT) don't normally use the 'breast is best' slogan and have not done for many years.

The suggestion you got on the NCT helpline sounds a little like what we might say, but again, I dont think we would talk about 'shuffling' or placing the naked baby on your stomach - we do often suggest self-attachment and placing the baby in biological nurturing positions. But if you really did get poor help like that, then do let NCT know. It is,sadly, the case that NCT breastfeeding counsellors are not numerous in London. We are all volunteers and yes, we do go on holiday, and there is no way we can cover the whole country all the time - mothers lose out, I know

NCT breastfeeding counsellors train to university diploma level and it takes about 3 years. We are assessed at all stages and in order to stay registered we undergo supervision and updating in the form of study days and workshops.

In what way was the guilt you felt induced by the NCT? It breaks my heart to think mothers might feel guilty because of something we have said or done - and I think we are unfairly blamed for breastfeeding going wrong and mothers feeling sad and angry about it. It really is not NCT's fault that you wanted to breastfeed and found it hard - how could it be? Many, many breastfeeding counsellors (myself included) have found breastfeeding massively challenging, and I would guess the majority of us did not find it easy to do. That's one of the reasons why we train!

It's certainly possible NCT could have helped you, if we had seen you. The fact that a suggestion on the phone was not clear enough, or not enough, for you, is a real shame, but as you have found, some breastfeeding challenges need face to face help and support.

But having said that - how could NCT learn from CBC?

I am glad that you found someone to help you that you were happy with. Have you been given follow-on advice about improving your own milk supply? It isn't a problem to combine feeding if you are happy with that but it can inadvertently lead to less breast milk production and then breastfeeding stops without that being the intention.

Feeding more frequently than 3-4hourly will stimulate milk production and negate the need for formula top-ups at all.

Thanks TikTok,
I did have a bit of a rant. I was just so cross with the advice or lack of advice that I had received.
And it was sad to see Clare, who had been such a star, get such a pasting on the A Karmel thread.
Every time someone at the hospital tried to help I got the same info and again the same info on the NCT line (nipple to nose, push her on while holding the back of her neck, not head etc), the naked rooting thing just about pushed me over the edge.
Am I the only one here who has used Clare then?
The breast milk increased as we went along which was great and I'm so glad that we finally got there.
I guess that different things work for different people. But if anyone is reading this and is going through the same experience then is it such a bad thing to try a different approach.
I'm sorry that you think I'm her PR. I guess that happens when you sing someones praises.

Anyhow, it is a bit of a vipers nest so perhaps I'll call this a day.