Most formula is sold to women who didn't want to buy it - how manufacturers make their product appeal

[hunkermunker]

Given that most women want to breastfeed, yet most don't do it for as long as they wanted to, and given that only breastmilk or formula are suitable for babies under a year old, there's a lot of formula being bought by women who don't want to buy it.

Can we have a chat about how advertising formula brands (in the form of follow-on, etc) is actually unhelpful with regard to making the baffling choice of "which formula"?

How DID you choose which formula? What would've helped you with your decision? Do you feel that adverts for formula are a valuable addition to the information, or do you think that seeing words such as immunofortis, laughing babies and blue Ready-brek glows round breastfed babies and toddlers in adverts are really pretty meaningless?

I bought Aptimil when I was pregnant(just in case i could not bf,glad I did. My SIL bought Aptimil so that really influenced my choice not any advertising, as then there was hardly any advertising for it. I tried to bf my baby, being a stressed first time mum, failed miserably, not much support given to me by health the NHS in general when at home, funny that when they are supposed to be promoting bf.

Glad that i had some formula in the cupboard as i was in no fit state to go to the supermarket. Midwife and HV did not push any type of formula. Bigfattiger I totally agree with you, felt so guilty that i had to resort to formula in the first place.

Blood glucose monitoring -some links here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. It's not entirely straightforward, as not all studies agree. Hospital policies vary too.

I am not familiar with studies on diabetes/gestational diabetes in relation to blood glucose monitoring.

nigglewiggle, fortunately surveys asking women what they plan to do vis a vis feeding are not carried out by confronting people in an antenatal class and getting them to declare their intentions publicly...they are done properly and professionally (as I explained in my post).

I also explained why these surveys can be relied on, and that results are consistent, and have been since the big 5 yearly surveys began in 1980....the proportion of 'plan to breastfeed' has gone up a bit, which is what you'd expect.

ilovemydog: the survey questions can be checked on the web. The wording was
" Thinking back to when you were pregnant, how did you intend to feed your baby?" and they had to tick one box of four (bf, ff, bf & ff, don't know). This was asked when babies were between 4 and 10 weeks old.

Obviously a professionally-done survey would not ask 'do you intend to breastfeed?' - as you imply, this would skew the results.

I am mystified. Why this resistance to the idea that most women want to breastfeed??? And resistance to the idea that we can find out - without women being pressured, surveyed in the wrong way, or fibbing?

Questioning how a survey was worded is not implying that I think women are lying. I don't think anyone is lying. I think most women probably do want to breastfeed, but wondering about how the questions were worded. Curiosity does not mean resistance.

We went to a parents-to-be promotional evening in Mothercare to get some discount vouchers and check out some prams. There was a demo from the staff of their fanciest prams, a great midwife who shared some funny anecdotes and tips, and a woman from Cow & Gate talking about nutrition. She didn't mention their products specifically, in fact I don't even think she mentioned formula feeding - probably because she wasn't allowed to promote it directly, I don't know. What she did do though, was give everyone a little cuddly cow with the logo on it. We still have it in our DD's toy box.

A couple of months later, DH is encouraging me to switch to ff as he couldn't bear to see me crying in tiredness and pain, so we agree to do one ff at night to give me a break. It's up to him to get the formula, it'll be his department.

Guess which formula he bought? C&G of course. Stealth marketing at its best .

Fair enough, ilovemydog

I don't doubt that my DS1 had low blood sugar (abnormally so) as he was a big baby and was very jittery and making 'jazz hands'. What annoys me is that instead of telling me I could express colostrum and give him that, I was left trying to BF but failing due to lack of proper help, until such point as he HAD to have formula PDQ or he would get ill.

The MW knew I desperately wanted to BF and were supportive of that in their way, but the lack of actual help and the no-alternative to formula, combined with the guilt some of them piled on me "Aren't you going to put that baby to the breast?" "Don't you want to BF?" etc was torture.

In the end it was only the fact that my antenatal teacher had struggled with BF and had mentioned at classes that you could express to keep your supply up if you had problems, that saved things for us. I had to ask for expressing equipment and was only brought it when I insisted. Then I was given rubbish advice about how often to do it and how to store it.

Oh the whole thing was shockingly bad. I could write a book on it.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm not sure I agree with this statement:

"Given that most women want to breastfeed, yet most don't do it for as long as they wanted to... there's a lot of formula being bought by women who don't want to buy it."

Just because most women want to start breastfeeding, it doesn't mean that they didn't want to buy the formula at that point. From my own experience only, I would imagine that it is only when you decide BF is not working for you that you begin to look at FF options. Your statement implies women are being duped into this.

Actually I BF until 19 months but there were a couple of occasions when I did wander into the FF aisle in sheer desperation through lack of sleep etc. The first time I stood there for at least half an hour just staring at rows and rows of products I knew nothing about. I didn't buy anything. The next time I bought Aptamil. This may have been to do with something on the packaging, I can't remember. I gave DD it and she rejected it. DH and I tried it ourselves and it tasted very metallic and unpleasant (to us). She didn't have it again.

I don't think I ever took in any of the FF advertising while pregnant or BF.

Laughs, reading the thread would have clarified the question in it. No one is saying women are duped into buying something they don't want.

The implication is not that women do not want to buy formula at the time they buy it - though they may have mixed feelings about it. However, they did not plan to buy any when they were planning to breastfeed.

Yes I should have read whole thread. The title does suggest that though, doesn't it? It's quite an evocative assertion.

emotive, even

When ds was in hospital the awful awul midwife made it clear that she thought I was starving ds so I gave in and asked for formula. I asked her which brand she would advise and when she replied that she couldn't suggest any because breast feeding was the best method of feeding I nearly throttled her as it was her attitude that was pushing me onto formula. The midwife reeled off a few brands and I asked for Cow & Gate because it had the word "cow" in its title and it sounded vaguely familar (although I think that I was confusing it with Unigate).

I mixed fed my DD from about 4mths and really didn't have a clue which one to give so I bought a little ready-made carton of each and decided to taste them. SMA was the worst, tasted a bit fishy and cardboard like to me. I preferred HIPP organic out of all of them but when DD tried it she hated it. I then went for my next best which was Aptamil 1 and she did thrive on it (although Aptamil number 2 is gack!). I did the same with the follow-ons, tasted them all, ready to change brand if needed.

DS is now 5mths and has been having a few bottles a week since 3mths in preparation for my return to work next month, when I will be BFing morning and evening. I used Aptamil again because DD liked it I suppose. Wasn't aware there was a huge cost difference because I've never looked really. After reading this I bloody well will if it means saving me a few quid every week!

I exclusively bf because both my dd's wouldn't take a bottle. But, after many bottles of rejected ebm being poured down the drain I bought some formula for the next (unsuccessful) attempts.

I hadn't done any research except remembering my sister had little ready made cartons which seemed the most convenient way to persuade my dh to try feeding dd with the bottles. I found Aptamil cartons (I think there was another brand on the shelf but that had more than one "variety" - maybe follow on milk or something, which confused me too much so I picked the other) and later spoke to my sister to find out she had something different (SMA Gold I think).

I was motivated by convenience because I was heavy hearted about the idea of dd getting onto a bottle at all and had a sneaky (and correct) suspicion that she'd never be ingesting any anyway.

I wanted to bf and was pretty determined, which probably brought on the lack of bottle acceptance problems because I was too scared to try a bottle early and interrupt bfing.

On tiktok's point, friends of mine who hadn't wanted to bf, especially with subsequent children after problems with first, got really fed up with midwives etc lecturing them about the benefits and so I can imagine that in any survey they may have been tempted to lie about it to avoid another lecture (whatever the status of the interviewer). Instead of being supported through bfing first time around, they were made to feel guilty (over and over again) that second time around they weren't prepared to put their families through that stress again. We definitely get the support straight after birth bit wrong wrong wrong around here.

Reading this thread I think that I was very lucky, as I had a breastfeeding guru at the hospital help me express colostrum into a syringe to feed DD1. I found out afterwards that she was the only dedicated breastfeeding person for the whole of the area.

Even though I was able to breastfeed successfully and DD1 put on lots of weight, I did buy formula in the end. I couldn't express and DD1 was so hungry and didn't sleep and cried all the time and I was desperate for a break away from her. I now wish that she hadn't had any formula at all, but at the time I was near to breaking point, so I don't suppose I could have done any different. I breastfed her (at least 95% of feeds) until 10 months.

I wanted to use organic formula, but it wasn't available in cartons and as she only had the occasional bottle it wasn't worth opening a big box of powder - so I used Aptamil as it was what my friend used. She tried to breastfeed but wasn't able to. After 10 months I switched to powdered organic formula (Hipp).

DD2 was exclusively breastfed for 6 months. I'm still breastfeeding at 8 months but she's had formula twice. Both times were down to DH, who gave her formula while I was asleep (in the day). I think that he doesn't want to see me so exhausted and upset again. I can't blame him, even though I don't like formula - and I reckon that a lot of formula is bought and administered by DHs/DPs who are frantically worried about a Mum who is close to breaking point.

madrush - the questioning of the survey methodology is easily answered.

The vast majority of surveyed mothers answer by post - thousands and thousands of them. There is a 62 per cent response rate - fantastic for a postal survey (if anyone has any market research experience they will know this is a very high return. They will obv not 'get a lecture' in response. The findings are robust and trustworthy, and checked for representativeness. In common with other surveys like this, people are 'chased' a couple of times by post if they do not send back their first questionnaire, as this is needed to ensure trustworthy result.

There are smaller groups where there is some face to face stuff done, can't remember the nos.

I am confident that there is nothing in the survey methodology that would make significant numbers answer misleadingly.

With DD1, she wouldn't latch and had IUGR so needed to feed. I was offered SMA or C&G in hospital. I had heard a lot of friends having issues with SMA and constipation so went for C&G and stuck to it as it seemed to agree.

DD2 is currently mostly breastfed - has 1 bottle a day and that is C&G as I used it with DD1.

(would have used Hipp both times but they don't do ready made cartons of it).

I was invited on a focus group to discuss choice of formula once.

A lady grabbed me coming out of the doctors as I was looking hugely pregnant and asked if this was my first baby.

There were about 12 of us, all sat in her lovely house one evening. She worked for SMA and they were starting to produce some lovely white lidded plastic containers with flowers around the edge into which you could put your powder and keep it on display in your kitchen

We all got paid £20 for the evening

IICRC, most of the 12 women would have picked a brand to use they were familiar with, SMA and Farleys were the most popular (this was 13+ years ago)

There was no pressure and I think everyone was open to BF as well as FF.

TBH, it didnt influence me a jot, I try not to be suckered in by advertising, and in this case it definitely didnt sway me as I've never bought any formula !

I'd love to get on a similar focus group today... the things I know now compared to then ....

tiktok, does sound like a robust study indeed and I'd agree that postal questionnaire is likely to have minimised the problems of women lying to avoid going against societal pressures.

I do, however, like to challenge the method behind statistics I hear! Thanks.

I had planned (all being well) to BF and hadn't bought any formula, but then DS was born 3 weeks early, low birth weight and yes, the 'low sugar' thing came out again! I had BF'd him in the recovery room but then he was taken to special care for his first night. DH was asked about formula and chose Aptamil because he knew my best friend had used it after 6 months (she BF'd till then). In turn, she'd used it because of the 'close to breastmilk' line, though I know that since then she has switched to I think SMA, on cost grounds. So it was really peer recommendation but based on the guilt advertising...

Fortunately, in spite of being told my DS might need more FF to keep topping him up, after his first 24 hours he came back to be BF by me and did so well on it, he was never given any more formula. Still BF at 5 months. I plan to carry on exclusively till at least 6/7 months but if using formula after that don't know what I'll do.

I used Aptamil as I remember reading the adverts in Mother & Baby magazine whilst pregnant and it had an added ingredient which caused babies brains to function better (I may not be remembering this all correctly as it was 13 years ago!).

Exclusively breastfed until dd was 3.5 months, when I went back to work ft. Funny thing was I never considered expressing - I don't think it was that common a thing to do back then. Just stopped breastfeeding and straight on to the bottle. Both DD and I were pissed off about it looking back. Plus DD was a very reflux baby, didn't bat an eyelid when she was being bf, however as soon as changed to Aptamil when she sicked a bit up it absolutely stank - a real vile, sicky, sour smell like adult vomit. That made me think about the difference between breastmilk and formula.

Interesting.

DS2 is mixed fed and is FF with C&G. Thats what we gave DS1 and when we thought DS2 was getting dehydrated on day 4, DH went to Boots and came back with a carton of C&G, most prob as its what DS1 had. The only thing I can remember about initially chosing C&G was that SMA seemed "chavvy". Don't ask me why! Completely irrationaly as in fact the SMA ad has changed my mind on that point, not that it would make me buy it tho, but I do like the sentiment behind the ad (ie the dad's thoughts on his baby and wife).

In hospital, having just delivered DS2, was asked how I intended feeding. I said BF, hopefully. The dr said why, hopefully? Reply was because with DS1 we had had a tough time with massive weight loss in week one and never really being able to establish excl BF properly. There was no reply from the dr after that and I was left to it.

5 days later we are readmitted as DS2 had gone from 8lb 9 to 7lb despite it looking promising in days 1 and 2. My milk never came in.

Back in hospital, all the drs and nurses were hugely supportive of my establishing BF and did all they could to help. But we had to give DS2 formula as he was so dehydrated and they asked which brand, so again C&G used.

To finish the story, I had to pump in hospital every 2 to 3 hours. There was no way I was going to be able to feed DS enough to satisfy and nourish him as there was no milk there. After 36 hours of the pumping I had produced a drop. A drop. Carried on pumping and then beginning to put DS on but despite constant feeding/pumping, it didn't work. I really tried and cried lots of tears over it, but we have ended up mixed feeding/topping up again. I am just glad that he gets some breast milk. I am also glad that he is now thriving and was then back to his birth weight within 10 days of being discharged from hospital. Not that the last part has anything to do with chosing a brand of formula!

Tiktok - that is interesting. It does sound like they have minimised, as far as possible, the pressure to give certain answers.

Did they then ask why some changed their minds?

niggle, the survey asks what happened, and if they stopped breastfeeding, what the reasons for it are. Nine out of 10 mothers who started to bf and then stop bf before their babies are aged 6 weeks are stopping before they planned to....you can check out the survey on the web for the reasons, but you can probably make a good guess at what they are