Most formula is sold to women who didn't want to buy it - how manufacturers make their product appeal

[hunkermunker]

Given that most women want to breastfeed, yet most don't do it for as long as they wanted to, and given that only breastmilk or formula are suitable for babies under a year old, there's a lot of formula being bought by women who don't want to buy it.

Can we have a chat about how advertising formula brands (in the form of follow-on, etc) is actually unhelpful with regard to making the baffling choice of "which formula"?

How DID you choose which formula? What would've helped you with your decision? Do you feel that adverts for formula are a valuable addition to the information, or do you think that seeing words such as immunofortis, laughing babies and blue Ready-brek glows round breastfed babies and toddlers in adverts are really pretty meaningless?

It's brand awareness I guess with the advertising.

I ff from the start and chose SMA because it was widely available including in the late-night garage locally, and was also the only one available in both small and large ready-made cartons.

I don't think I'd have bought a brand I'd not heard of though.

Oh also, if I was ever to use formula, (unlikely) I'd use Cow & Gate because it's more readily available than Hipp organic, but I am suspicious of Aptimil and have a perception of SMA as a bit chavvy I don't know why, in fact I think I was mix-fed with SMA myself, so possibly the Jordan thing? Also C & G has the nicest name, SMA reminds me of the word "smack"!

Oh, and I was grief stricken - you are right, hunker. SO were the other Mums who had failed bfing by the time out postnatal group started. Only the VERY determined/stubborn/lucky-it-didn't-hurt Mums were bfing by the time the hv finally got her finger out to start the bfing support group. We needed it the week they were born, not months down the line. still!

I'm not making any sort of judgement, I'm just wondering where your information is from.

I mixed fed and used Hipp purely as it's organic.

Used to buy the Aptamil cartons though, even though I knew it was a rip off and blatantly aimed at women who feel guilty for ff.

We used Enfamil (in the States) because it was the brand they used in the hospital where DS was born, and he'd been given some by the midwives at 3 days when I was flat on my back unable to BF.

Once we started mixed feeding in the following weeks, it made sense to use the brand they'd given him and he'd seemed happy with.

With DS1 I was in hospital, he wouldn't BF and his blood sugar levels were clearly dropping like a stone. He had to have some formula (well at least that is what I was told - now I know I should have expressed some colostrum for him), and was asked by the MW which one. I had NO idea as it had never crossed my mind I would need formula. I asked the MW for guidance but she said she wasn't allowed to give a recommendation.

The MW listed a few that the hospital stocked including Farleys and SMA Gold. Those were the only two that stuck in my mind. I associated Farleys with rusks and 'Gold' sounded kind of good, so I went with that. What an informed decision eh?

DS is on prescribed formula, so absolutely no choice due to his dairy allergy, but I was talking to a woman in hospital about formula and she said her DD was on Aptamil as it was the, 'closest thing to breastfeeding...'

So, she was repeating the slogan verbatim.

Clever marketing.

I used Aptimil because my friend (a HCP) recommended it.

I have since found out it is heavily marketed to HCPs.

ProvLady - I had the same experience this time round, you've just reminded me.

Was told babies sugar was low and although I'd bf from 1/2hr after birth (C/section), that he needed to be topped up. Was asked which one I wanted him to have and didn't know. MW wasn't allowed to recommend, so I said "Oh just use any".

Another informed decision

Happy that against all the odds, I'm still bf at 5months though.

I chose SMA primarily because my best friend who always knew she couldn't breastfeed, chose it for her three robustly healthy babies. Also it seemed to be the simplest to make up, (tho the HV tells me I do it wrong ) and the most widely available. I guess I was influenced by the word "Gold", and yes, I didn't want to buy it for DS1 but was desperate.
I am deeply suspicious of the adverts, especially that insidious comforting - "we all know that breastmilk is best...but if you choose" tone of voice, somehow they make it sound like that's a lie and secretly we all know formula is "as good".
Of course it's not, we have the guilt already thank you.

There is no doubt that the majority of women in the UK plan to breastfeed their babies before birth. Every survey confirms this, and we have especially good data in the UK.

I do not believe that women tell lies about this - there is no evidence they do, and there is no reason to, if the survey is conducted properly (and our UK Infant Feeding surveys are world class, with large samples, carefully analysed and with trained and professional interviewers from outside the health system).

The latest infant feeding survey - Infant Feeding 2005, which is on the web - shows that 70 per cent of women planned to breastfeed before their babies were born (this is from something like 12,000 - 13,000 interviewees). Virtually all women who wanted to breastfeed do indeed start bf, and there is a sizeable no. who decide in labour or at birth to bf, too. One might think they are less keen, but that would be a big guess as there is no data - they might just have been keeping an open mind.

All surveys show the majority of women plan to bf - the research is very consistent about this.

I don't know where people who think women are routinely telling porkie pies about this get their notions from.

(Very prominent ad for Aptamil formula in the Observer women's magazine today - the full page opposite the contents. This is because Aptamil is marketed as a premium brand - for posh people)

I used Aptamil because it was the only name on the British market I was familiar with from home (Germany). So, yes, purely brand recognition. Also, I did believe the advertising re DHA etc .

Is this thread not in danger of confusing the issue over which brand of FF is chosen and the reasons why woman BF or FF??
When DS1 was expected it never even occured to me that I would be doing anything other than BF but circumstances were such that from 6 week onwards he was mixfed.
I BF for longer with each subsequent child - just stopped with DS3 at 13 and a bit months.

What I am trying to say, and I know I am stating the obvious, there are LOTS of reasons why even woman who want to BF end up using FF - and there there is the question why they chose whatever FF brand. And as they are really all the same, that doesn't matter all that much, or does it?

Oh, and as a GP I have never had any formula promoted to me; I would imagine it is different for midwives and HVs. Equally I have never had any kind of training re BFing (other than the trite "breast is best"), and have learnt ALL I know about BF from BFadvisors, LLL, kellymom, Dr Jack Newman - and, of course, MN .

Because they don't seem to try very hard. With both of my DCs, bf was very difficult to establish.

But through my determination and bloody-mindedness I persevered and succeeded to some extent.

It's just my experience that on both occasions whilst in hosp having my DCs, I was the only person on a ward of 8 women, who was bf.

Reasons that they were ff ranged from 'tried and it hurt', through to 'my DP wants to feed the baby'.

I must say though, that the support was very difficult to obtain. I feel that the most unhelpful thing is people saying 'if it hurts, you're doing it wrong'. In my experience, albeit limited, it does hurt initially, even if the latch is good.

I wanted to breastfed each of my 3 dc. Unfortunley i don't seem to produce any milk (like my mum).

With dd1 i used SMA, because it was the one DH picked as i was so stressed about failing breast feeding as i have many allergies with i wanted to give them the best protection as possible.

With dd2 I tried all of them, and she hated all of them. I have to say that was the longest and most upsetting 5mths in my life, but could not cope any long so i weaned her with both the doctor and HV help.

With ds i am using Hipp because it is the only one that doesn't have added prebiotics(sp).

And yes i do think we need more information WRT formula feeding, but not necessary more adverts if that makes sense.

Pacific, no surprise you have not been marketed to - in the UK, GPs have very little everyday contact with brand new mothers, which is why the heavy marketing is to HVs and midwives.

For example, SMA is sponsoring a midwife of the year contest this year
www.britishjournalofmidwifery.com/awards.shtml#award_listHandle2

It's different in the US. Most mothers engage a paediatrician for their children, often for routine care, and paediatricians there are a valuable conduit for the formula companies.

You may well be right tiktok, but if you are in a very breastpromoting area (as I was), I imagine that it would actually require tremendous courage to announce in the ante-natal class that 'I intend to formula feed'. (I fully intended to breastfeed, but have to admit I would have said it anyway). Immediately after birth, a lady went round the wards and asked each newly-wheeled-up mum 'how do you intend to feed the baby'. The ones that said 'breastfeed' were praised and the others ... were not. Not surprisingly, the majority decided to try breastfeeding.

It was simply presented to us as the option and I have no doubt this was why all my friends thought pre-birth that they would be breastfeeding.

Suspect that by the time they gave up, they were simply so knackered and miserable that they no longer cared what anyone thought.

I had to give up with ds for medical reasons when he was 6 months old (or may have been 4). Not many brands available in our local shop, so just chose the firm that did not seem morally compromised. Advertising only really effective if you have a car and can get to the supermarkets.

My comments were simply questioning the first premise on which the discussion is based. I didn't pretend to know that lots of women lie, but I just wondered how we know what people intend to do.

Tiktok - you are clearly far more informed than I am, but I would still suspect that in the current climate of strongly encouraging breastfeeding (for all the right reasons) some women might feel under pressure to say they intend to BF when in fact they don't.

tiktok, yes, I know. It is all v money driven (gosh, am I going to win the prize for the bleeding obvious tonight?) and aimed at woman at a time they feel vulnerable/emotional/are easily led by the implication that giving FF X is doing the "best" for their child. I do see a fair number of new(ish) mums/babies with a variety of feeding problems, usually sent by their HV to cover themselves rule out medical reasons for a baby's failure to thrive/slow wt gain. This inevitable ends up with a discussion about feeding.
We most certainly do not need more ads for FF.
IME, the biggest difference to me would have made the acknowledgement by the (BTW brilliant) BFadvisors I saw that, yes, sometimes BFing if HARD. And just because it is natural, ie what nature intended, does not make it easy - for some, that is.
Also, IMO and my opinion only, HCP should be more positive about BFing and more negative about stressing the downsides of FFing. Everybody being so bloody level and non-judgemental does not help the cause .
There is a great article on "guilt" on Dr Jack Newman's website which I agree with an awful lot.

Sorry, thing on guilt is here, written by Dr Jack Newman.

Another one here told that dd had low blood sugar (it was 1.2 so I guess it was very low). Given the non existent help and support for bf they said they needed to give formula asap. Being not very well, emotional and knackered I said whatever, assuming they knew what they were doing. They used Aptamil so when I totally failed at bf I continued with the Aptamil as the hospital had recommended it, it looked more 'serious' and was the most expensive .

And the irritating thing is, should I have to ff any dc2 I'd probably go with Aptamil again because dd did very well with it and no issues. So their advertising worked - they got me

RambleOn - I think a lot of women don't realise how hard it is to get breastfeeding established. It comes as massive shock to them and as things are so difficult in the first few weeks anyway maybe that's why they give up. I don't think you or anyone can judge how hard someone has tried or not tried.

I think it's interesting as well, that the same people in my antenatal gp who intended to bf and didn't, all ended up having 'hungry babies'.

They were all on special hungry baby formula and were weaned early.

Oh how well I fitted in with my bf baby with a 'failure to thrive' label at 6wks

There are still MW who point you in the "right direction" of which formula feed to choose. I picked mine because my frined told me her mw said aptamil was the best,