Annabel Karmel, not content with making weaning sound complicated, has turned her hand to breastfeeding

[hunkermunker]

Words fail me

And yes, there are snippets in there that are true/useful - but HOW you dredge through the stuff that's unnecessary/nice to have but not essential - who knows?!

gussy, breastmilk is not affected by what the mother eats.
The mother will feel better if she eats better, but the baby is not affected.

Yes, retreat Gussy! Much less support on here than on the AK site, eh? Get more of your pals on to agree with you...

LMAO... i think i made my point to those that listened....

What was your point though gussy? Because the evidence you quoted did not support your argument.

Besides...are we seriously comparing the health of women who are in third world countries at risk of malnutrition and starvation with those in the UK who eat turkey twizzlers and McDs...? There is no comparison despite what your friend Jamie Oliver says.

my point was that ak promoting nutritional family recipies is a good thing.

The third world point was someone elses comparison, which had some interesting stuff about healthy eating.... there was no comparision drawn... and it became some sort of debate about bfing and diet.

i say once more all im advocating is a healthy diet... good for everyone..

Yes, a healthy diet is good for everyone, but it has nothing to do with ability to breastfeed.
AK sticking her nose won't help mothers who eat a poor diet, for whatever reason, to feel confident in their breastfeeding.

The concept of 'breastfeeding recipes' is damaging.

LMAO i think the general feeling on here is most things/suggestions are against breast feeding or not good for breast feeding...why twist things so negatively?
i thought this site promoted breast feeding? why does it come across so anti?

The medical recommendation in bfing is to eat more calories/iron/and drink more.... was from the BMJ recommendations... whys that so bad... doesnt say that people who dont do it cant breast feed.... its saying its best for health...

You aren't making much sense to me gussy. Who is anti-breastfeeding, MN?!

Eating healthily is better for the mother's health. It has no effect on breastfeeding.

I don't know why you find this so funny.

gussy a lot of bfers have found this site invaluable. all info is backed up with sources. all in easy to understand language. maybe show it to annabel next time you see her

MN ladies, gussymooloo's main objective atm is to wind folks up and keep the discussion going. Her genuine interest in bf is limited.

'Making women think that they must maintain ?perfect? diets in order to have thriving breastfed babies is an unnecessary obstacle to breastfeeding.'

according to good old kellymom.

infused water?
err i tend to find actual water quite thirst quenching myself.

oops should have read the whole thread bet talking about infused water is sooooo 3pm this afternoon.

things look like they've got a lot more considered and serious debate style so apologies for being way out of step

If you had to eat a 'helathy' diet to produce breast milk then why do I crave stodgy carbohydrates such as cereals, bread, pasta, flapjacks etc.
I am trying to eat healthily due to weight and diabetes risk but sometimes an apple or salad is so boring.

I think diet in the western world is not as important as unless you are super skinny you have reserves to fall back on (I must have enough for another 6 months). If you are only eating enough to survive and have been doing for seeveral months then being pregnant will have strained your body and bf will put another strain on it. then you need a balance diet as you are not only feeding yourself but a baby as well.
Hope that made some sense.

I don't think most posters on this thread were impressed with the infused water, dreamy - though I think that bit of the conversation was a few days ago.

hey deekayel, go easy, she did apologise

gussy, the quote from the UNICEF document you gave is for all women in the world. from women in rural Pakistan, Sudan etc to the women in nanny states like the UK.

You can hardly read that document with the same interpretation for women across the spectrum with the same glasses on.

the only women in the UK who benefits from reading this document in a similar vein as those women on seriously marginal diets in the third world are those women on seriously bad diets - chips and takeaways 7 days a week, no veg and those with a history of anorexia (for example) during their adult lives.

The majority of women in the lesser developed world and the vast majority in the more developed world are on at least an adequate diet to produce breastmilk of the quality and quantity to enable her to breastfeed exclusively for 6 months.

there is no 'drop' between 4-6 months in women's milk quality or quantity as you hinted in a response to my post yesterday afternoon. the drop you speak about is normally in a woman's confidence or brought on by separation from her baby for whatever reason.

so AK producing breastfeeding recipes for women in the UK who are by and large well fed despite having days here and there of living on chocolate and cheese sarnies and weetabix, and maybe more or less wholesome the rest of the week, is just not on.

it promotes the myth that if I don't eat fresh organic balanced meals my milk will not be good enough and my baby will suffer.

we don't need to make breastfeeding hard for women. we need to make it easy.

the last lasagne I made from scratch was about 5 years ago. i am tandem feeding now.

I give up.... im really unsure to why you are all against mums eating well...

at no point did i say it affects milk directly...

My point was it affects mum which in turn can affect milk, ie dehydration and other physical illness...
i dread to think what you lot would say about smoking and breasft feeding, if your so fixed that what you eat ingest doesnt affect milk ;)

Debs.. i think you would find the carbs are good, by healthy diet its not rabbit food, its a mixed healthy diet...

DRs recommended increased calorie intake and as i said before your body normally does it naturally by making you hungry and thirsty.

But gussy, that's the point, you have to be starving before milk is affected.

We're not against mums eating well, we're against misinformation.

ditto what wastingmyeducation said.

the calorific increase which most women in the uk need for breastfeeding is can largely be met by a bounty bar and a couple chocolate digestives. but seriously, yes.

btw i am no against AK peddling recipes. i am against her peddling myths n half truths in order to sell recipes. i think there is a niche for her books as chipmonkey said earlier. and i don't agree with selling them at the expense of good breastfeeding information.

gussy, your viewpoint is odd. You agree (I think) that women do not need to eat well in order to breastfeed in a perfectly healthy way (from the baby's point of view. The evidence is that even women who are chronically undernourished are perfectly able to breastfeed exclusively - this is one of the issues researchers looked at when they did the studies for the WHO (to look for evidence of the 'weanling's dilemma' of poor societies ie is it better to cease excl bf at 4 mths and supplement with other foods, or continue excl bf for the protection and other health benefits of it? They found no evidence of this dilemma - the answer was that the maj. of babies are fine with a policy of excl bf to 6 mths.

Women in developing countries do not cease to bf at 4-6 mths. Many cease to bf exclusively for all sorts of cultural reasons, inc a lack of belief in excl bf - read Politics of Breastfeeding for more info. And yes, formula promotion plays a part in this.

As for smoking - smoking affects the breastmilk, but not to the extent that the baby is better off on formula.

gussy, i recommend listening to this lady's argument about making breastfeeding special in sort of the vein AK puts it.

dreamy and ladybug, sorry, I wasn't meaning to criticise your post, I didn't think your apology was needed, actually - I meant to say that your opinion about infused water was similar to the others posted on the thread. Sorry if that wasn't clear.