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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Annabel Karmel, not content with making weaning sound complicated, has turned her hand to breastfeeding

353 replies

hunkermunker · 19/05/2009 15:51

Words fail me

And yes, there are snippets in there that are true/useful - but HOW you dredge through the stuff that's unnecessary/nice to have but not essential - who knows?!

OP posts:
FairLadyRantALot · 27/05/2009 13:50

and Fairmidden only just read your message...indeed, teh 6 month guidelines are not taken well from those that loose out because of them...which is those that make money from weaning...

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 14:01

LOL how long has the recommendation been 6months? your all so cynical.

Why would it make a difference to people buying AK cook books? surely they would still buy them just 2 months later?

FairMidden · 27/05/2009 14:05

But gussy weaning takes place over a very, very short timescale. So AK has to get in there and sell, sell, sell before people realise that, actually, it's not that hard to wean a baby without having a Magimix and a truckload of icecube trays. Plus, by 6 months babies can manage finger foods and so sidestep the whole puree malarkey anyway. That's a well kept secret, it seems (or it was 'til Aitch got wind of it ).

AK needs people to believe that babies need purees. And that's a really tiny window in which to make a profit.

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 14:08

her recipes arent purees lol think nonly one book is the rest is just normal food.... i did blw with both of mine and still used her books

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 14:11

sorry that should of read not all her recipes are purees... just one book i think is all purees..

FairMidden · 27/05/2009 14:16

You miss my point, gussy. AK is part of a big commercial machine which feeds on the hormonal desperation of new parents who want to Do The Best by their child. I won't go so far as to describe it as preying . There's not a lot of money to be made from saying "Kids don't need special kid food, they can eat what adults eat, try and make it mainly healthy stuff". Much more profitable to make people think they need a book to keep them right.

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 14:21

definately missing your point, i see AK cook books the same as my Jamie Oliver ones...

I think you have a very cynical view...

FairMidden · 27/05/2009 14:27

You're right there

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 14:35

LOL

BelleWatling · 27/05/2009 14:52

I am only just getting in on this debate but Gussy why is it so 'cynical' or difficult to believe that someone who has a big brand and company wants to maximise the profits and will use the tools she has at her disposal to build that brand and sell more products?

Website content is even more important because unlike advertising and packaging it is not regulated and the ASA / Trading Standards will not be pulling her up on the inaccuracies on there. I imagine one of her strategies is to build the AK website as the home of information about children's nutrition from birth onwards. Whether she is rubbing her hands and cackling and developing her own range of breast pumps / breastmilk foods I don't know. If you are arguing there isn't a commercial angle to what she produces...I really don't know what to say.

Given, as you point out, there are numerous not-for-profit and accountable organisations providing free evidence-based support and information about breastfeeding from WHO to NCT to LLL to the DOH and NHS - why get it from an unqualified, unregulated and partial source?

mummyfuss · 27/05/2009 17:28

The woman clearly has a screw loose. Her latest little post on the CBC thread is as follows:-

"I can see that the breastfeeding feature has produced some interesting and lively debate. What is good about this country is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and an open discussion .

Some mothers find breastfeeding very easy and others find it extremely difficult and it can be a very emotionally trying time . Why should breasts be the only part of your body that works perfectly ? we all have eyes but whilst some people see perfectly others need glasses so if you find breastfeeding difficult rest assured so do many other mothers. Some of you may have read recently about the mother in the US who killed herself when she failed to successfully breastfeed her child . This may be an extreme case but I do know that many mothers end up in tears and in a terrible state as they feel a failure if they are not able to breastfeed their child.

There is plenty of very good general advice on breastfeeding in books and on websites but what I have tried to do is find some methods that have worked for mothers who have tried to follow the generally available advice but have still failed to succeed. Clare has had 20 years experience in Breastfeeding and she has had remarkable success with many of the more difficult cases.

My website is here to help mums and every mother is an individual. What works for one person may not work for another. In the same way some babies are very good eaters and other are very fussy. There is no one answer on how you get your fussy child to eat ? I give guidance and suggestions but I wouldn?t presume to know what might work for every single child as every child is different and so is every mum.

My aim is to help you in whatever way that I can to make looking after your baby and child as stress free and happy as possible."

FairMidden · 27/05/2009 17:50

"My aim is to help you in whatever way that I can to make looking after your baby and child as stress free and happy [and profitable] as possible."

foxytocin · 27/05/2009 18:37

no gussy, the reason bf rates are poor in 3rd world countries are some of the same reasons that they are poor over here.

they get formula companies telling them that they must have a healthy diet and show them photos of a whole fresh mackerel and supermarket perfect fruit and veg - apples, strawberries, plus milk, yoghurt etc.

these images tell 3rd world mothers that their diet of maybe, salt fish, callaloo and 'ground food' is not good enough so they supplement because after all, everything that comes from the first world is better than okra callaloo and ox tail, to give an example from the Caribbean.

it implies that diet for breastfeeding includes things like milk which is expensive to buy and expensive to keep unless it is powdered, again an imported first world food.

these misconceptions which formula companies are happy to portray is one why a lot of 3rd world women supplement with formula then begin to lose their supply.

they do the same thing over here though! a breastfeeding mum can happily breastfeed here on chinese takeaways, chips and beans and water. it isn't optimal for anyone but you can live on it in the medium to long term.

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 20:02

I did say there was many different reasons foxy, i was just highlighting one unicef intitive to help bf mums in third word countrys eat better.

All im saying in a world of increased medical problems and obesity why would people slate someone promoting healthy family food?

If you lived on the diet your suggesting you would be a prime candidate for all the nasty unpleasent illnesses that could be avoided.... diabetes, heart dieses, strokes, high bp.... all which impact on pregnancy and bfing.

FairLadyRantALot · 27/05/2009 20:08

but gussy, unicef are trying to help 3rd world mothers to eat healthier, because of their situation, not because they want to undermine breastfeeding...indeed it could be said, that in those extreme situations that 3rd world countries experience on a daily basis, it is more important to feed the mothers, because the Babies/Children will than be fed automatically....
still nothing to do with quality of milk, though....

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 20:12

I refer back to my earlier post, the research showed that due to diet (and other things..work etc..) they were struggling to breast feed past 4-6months (milk supply slowed down) hence the intiative... i didnt mention quality of milk...

wastingmyeducation · 27/05/2009 20:34

Which research gussy?

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 20:40

did i link it earlier?

hang on think theres a link on this page
www.unicef.org/infobycountry/togo_44932.html

will check and find the research document incase its not, may take me a while, bear with me

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 20:47

Direct quote....

When supplies of food or vitamin supplements are available it is best to give them to the breastfeeding mother rather than the infant. This will improve the mother's health and well-being, ensure adequate vitamins in her milk, and protect the infant from the risks of artificial feeding.

The mother's dietary intake will not generally increase how much breastmilk she can produce in a day. Her nutritional status before and during pregnancy are important for milk content, but generally only of marginal impact since her body will ensure that the breastmilk receives the available vitamins and minerals. If a mother is concerned whether she is giving her baby enough milk, this can be assessed by ensuring that the infant is urinating at least 5-7 times a day, and producing stool according to age and diet. The mother should know that eating enough of the available foods, increasing variety when possible, and increasing the frequency of breastfeeding, day and night, will support and increase her breastmilk production.

UNICEF works in many areas to support maternal nutrition; one focus is a Low Birth Weight Prevention Initiative, with pilot studies on multi-micronutrient supplements for pregnant women. It will be piloted in 11 countries - Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Indonesia, Philippines, Viet Nam, China, Tanzania, Madagascar and Mozambique. The initiative will complement UNICEF?s Care for Women and Children Initiative, which focuses on women?s education, workload, physical health and nutrition status, emotional well-being, reproductive health, and care during pregnancy and lactation.

end quote...

this is what i meant by improving bfing mums diet.

FairLadyRantALot · 27/05/2009 20:49

ctually I read the article differently....but really got to go...

wastingmyeducation · 27/05/2009 21:05

"The mother's dietary intake will not generally increase how much breastmilk she can produce in a day"

FairMidden · 27/05/2009 21:11

I don't think that quote backs up your assertion (that diet has an impact on BFing) in any way gussy.

ruddynorah · 27/05/2009 21:12

'Her nutritional status before and during pregnancy are important for milk content, but generally only of marginal impact since her body will ensure that the breastmilk receives the available vitamins and minerals.'

ie it doesn't matter to her milk if she eats chips and beans every tea time. however, she might feel better and more energetic if she eats well..same as anyone, bf or not.

littleladybug · 27/05/2009 21:17

The nutrients and minerals in breastmilk come from stores in yer bones that've been there for some time...

feel like I recognise a couple of posters on here, ahem ahem...

gussymooloo · 27/05/2009 21:19

LOL please read my posts, i dont think i ever said it stopped people bfing, i am saying if mums health is good, its all better for her and baby and yes bfing, and i think it backs up what im saying perfectly.

im tired of banging my head against the wall now, shall leave you to return to your AK and CBC bashing in peace.... as that what seems to interest you all...