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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Happy Mum, Happy Baby

41 replies

Babieseverywhere · 04/05/2009 19:55

"Happy Mum, Happy Baby"

I am trying to figure out what about this glib often repeated (usually by unknowledgable health professionals) phrase which makes me grind my teeth in rage.

I think because it seems to be used as an alternative of proper support, as long as the 'end result' is a 'happy mother' everything else is irrelevent.

Maybe I should reclaim this phrase and use it myself......

Co-sleeping with babies - Happy Mum, Happy Baby
Nursing a toddler - Happy Mum, Happy Baby
Nursing in Public - Happy Mum, Happy Baby

Ahhh, feel a little better now ;)

OP posts:
Jaquelinehyde · 04/05/2009 19:59

It is generally true though isn't it?

Original poster
Babieseverywhere · 04/05/2009 20:09

Well, I wouldn't of posted if I believed that.

I can think of many situations when a mother is not happy, yet does what she feels is the best for her baby to be healthy and happy.

That phrase implies that a depressed mother or a mother suffering a painful condition or illness, can not raise a happy baby.

On a personal note, does that mean the months I spent in pain trying to established breastfeeding with my DD, meant she was not happy as I certainly wasn't at the time ?

What do you think ?

OP posts:
kikid · 04/05/2009 20:09

Yes it is generally true....

Skimty · 04/05/2009 20:12

In my experience it's more often happy baby, happy mum but i know who has control in my household!

starfishnebula · 04/05/2009 20:13

It's enraging because it conceals a hidden assumption.

It makes perfect sense if you assume all other things are equal - all other things being equal, then you might as well pick the option that makes the mum happy and then that will also benefit the baby indirectly.

If all other things are NOT equal, then it won't necessarily be true. No one would ever say 'happy mum = happy baby' when talking about whether or not it's OK, say, not to change a nappy all day or whether it's OK to take a baby on the back of a motorbike!

It's enraging and infuriating in discussions usually because the real bone of contention is not whether or not it's OK for mums to be happy, but whether or not the two alternative choices really are pretty much as good as each other. Often the person saying "happy mum = happy baby" thinks they are pretty much as good as each other (whether they're formula feeding versus breastfeeding or whatever) - to THEM, "happy mum = happy baby" then makes perfect sense. In that context, it DOES make sense. But if half the people in the debate don't think the two alternatives are that equal, then to THEM "happy mum = happy baby" quite rightly makes no sense. But half the time everyone misses the fact that it's the underlying assumption about how equal the two alternatives are that's the real issue - instead the whole debate gets derailed into the issue of, say, whether or not mums have a right to be happy. Very frustrating!

kikid · 04/05/2009 20:22

Hidden assumption?

Common sense, i'd say, but maybe we should debate what happy means..

smallchange · 04/05/2009 20:26

Nah. There were a lot of times in ds's early weeks when I was not happy.

Ds absolutely didn't care and was happy as Larry as long as his needs were met. As it should be.

hazeyjane · 04/05/2009 20:29

I don't understand this phrase either, it seems to assume that we are either happy or unhappy, for a start!

When i had dd1 I was ecstatic that i had had a baby after 7 years of ttc successfully, miserable that I found it too hard to b'feed her, happy some days, sad the next. Dd on the other hand was miserable and screamed and cried throughout the first 3 months, I don't think this reflected on my state of mind particularly (more likely wind!)

It reflects badly on mums that have pnd, I'm pretty sure their babies are happy if they are fed, cuddled, looked after by their loving parents. (happy dad - happy baby, anyone!?)

Also I have met some mums who leave their lo's to cry for ages and talk about them as if they are a total pita, but seem very happy, so i don't think it follows that being a happy mum means the baby is.

I had several people say this to me when i gave up trying to b'feed (including a hv and a mw), and it just seemed to be an easy way for people to deal with me, but actually it seemed trite and thoughtless (implying some sort of selfishness on my part, like I just wanted to be happy so that's why i stopped, not because of the thrush, tonguetie, agonising pain etc etc)

ruddynorah · 04/05/2009 20:31

it's just a stupid polite phrase to make new mums feel better about some of the choices they make.

gabygirl · 04/05/2009 20:51

Yes - it's a well known truth, that if you bottlefeed and are 'happy' to do so, your baby will magically obtain all the protective benefits of breastmilk, just from regular exposure to your golden readybrek glow.....

Seriously - you can be as happy as you like. It won't help stop your baby getting diarrheoa or respitory infections. Only breastfeeding can do that!

peppapighastakenovermylife · 04/05/2009 20:53

I hated this phrase from the other side - the connotation that an unhappy mum must mean an unhappy baby! After two episodes of pnd this one always got to me.

I agree with Skimpty!

gabygirl · 04/05/2009 20:55

"It reflects badly on mums that have pnd, I'm pretty sure their babies are happy if they are fed, cuddled, looked after by their loving parents"

That said - I think there's some good evidence that the babies of women who are severely postnatally depressed do suffer in terms of their emotional development, if the depression isn't treated or addressed properly. Apparently it's particularly significant for male babies.

If dysfunctional bf makes women depressed/aggravates their depression, then that needs to be dealt with. (the fact it happens in the first place is crap in my view, given that so much difficult bf is caused by poor care)

thisisyesterday · 04/05/2009 20:58

i don't think it's true at all.

a mother could be blissfully happy, but it doesn't mean her baby is.
what if she is happy taking drugs and neglecting her child? doesn't make the baby happy does it?

ok, that's extreme I know. But just because a mother is happy does not mean that her child will automatically be.

AitchTwoOh · 04/05/2009 21:02

it's a bullshit phrase imo. i struggled terribly with bfing and it was often trotted out as a reason why i should give up... never mind the fact that giving dd formula Did Not make me happy, it made me sad and defeated.

it's mostly said by people whose gums flap more than their ears.

thisisyesterday · 04/05/2009 21:09

yes, I have nearly always heard it in relation to breastfeeding.

hanaflower · 04/05/2009 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foxytocin · 04/05/2009 21:12

when I heard it when i got that platitude instead of support (from friends, not HCP) all i could think was, but giving formula won't make me happy.

Original poster
Babieseverywhere · 04/05/2009 21:12

{Aitch}

Sounds like I am not alone in dislikeing this empty unaccurate phrase

OP posts:
theyoungvisiter · 04/05/2009 21:12

I hate this phrase too.

I think it's dishonest and misogynistic.

People who trot it out are usually trying to justify decisions that make the mother happier or are more convenient in a way that is perceived to be at the child's expense - whether that be formula feeding or controlled crying or going back to work or whatever.

But it's patronising and dishonest to dress up pragmatic decisions in fluffy wuffy euphemisms to pretend that it's really actually for the sake of the baby^.

We are grownups - we should be allowed to make decisions on their own merits, and, sometimes to prioritise our own sanity and happiness. Yes, we'd all like our children to be happy, and yes, mostly their needs come first. But sometimes there are other, over-riding concerns and it's bullshit to pretend that's not the case.

If a mother needs, for her own sanity or health or whatever, to act in a particular way, that's fine. There's no need to dress it up as self-sacrifice by proxy.

Ultimately the implication is that as mothers we have no right to happiness except through the medium of our children.

You never hear dad's justifying going for a pint because "happy daddy happy baby".

theyoungvisiter · 04/05/2009 21:15

dads

(puts on grocer's bonnet and scuttles away)

morocco · 04/05/2009 21:15

(waves to babieseverywhere - am just back on mn after months away - nice to read one of your posts first)

is a facile and annoying phrase with no real meaning to it. I could kind of see the point of 'unhappy mum, unhappy baby' but I'm not sure even that is always true really.

LupusinaLlamasuit · 04/05/2009 21:16

wot thisisyesterday said

Tis bollox on many levels.

So you're happiest shooting live kittens with an airgun and spinning round to pop at other small creature in your vicinity? Or drinking vodka till you laugh so much you wet your pants? Or so very happy you neglect your baby in favour of your new boyf?

And on the other hand, as others have said, it assumes unhappy people can't mother. Which is also bollox. There is of course a pathological boundary of people who need help with PND. But I'm with Winnicott: good enough mothering is all an infant needs and most women, even with PND can manage this.

It's a form of denial of women's feelings IMHO and usually used to justify some choice she might not have made had there been more knowledge, support or resources to invest in her.

LupusinaLlamasuit · 04/05/2009 21:20

And...

It also supports the notion that parenting is 6just^ and completely instinctual and 'emotional' and not something that has to be learnt or taught or shared or complained about.

It's part of the whole mythology of motherhood that I detest for being nothing like the reality.

Yeuch.

LupusinaLlamasuit · 04/05/2009 21:20

just

Original poster
Babieseverywhere · 04/05/2009 21:25

I like this defination
"It's a form of denial of women's feelings IMHO and usually used to justify some choice she might not have made had there been more knowledge, support or resources to invest in her." Might have to borrow that one in the future.

morocco, Glad to see you here again. We need to catch up in RL, I'm house bound on crutches at the moment (long story) should be up for a coffee next week if you are around on Tuesday ?

OP posts: