How many feeds a day? I seem to be feeding continuously - is this ok at this v early stage?

[Happymum2be]

I am a new mum and my baby is now 6 days old and we've had some ups and downs with feeding. he's breast feeding every hour for approx 25 mins, i manage to get an hours sleep here and there if my husband takes him. Could someone tell me if it is normal for him to want to continuousy feed? Its very painful but nowhere near unbearable. Its particularly painful on the right breast and whilst tired out the other night I got the latch completely wrong and now have bleeding most times I feed. I got very upset yesterday due to being exhausted (approx 3 hours broken sleep in 24 hours)and my husband is so suportive but wonders how long I can continue this and has asked if I want to get some formula. I know I absoutely do not but will the number of feeds decrease? He doesn't appear to want to be held by me - he just wants to feed. We're co-sleeping as i can't bear to put him in his moses basket, everytime I put him down he cries and cries and kicks about so much his covers go everywhere. John Lewis staff said we shouldn't use a grobag til 4 wks but the bag fits him well and he hasn't managed to struggle much during the day so i was thinking of trying him in one tonight. Its a real struggle to continue feeding all night with him right next to me. It take 10 mins to get him latched on once he's stopped moving his head round and finally opens wide nenough. I know I can do this, I have amazing support frmo my husband but he can't bear to see me so upset - I just need reassurance that its ok to continuously feed.
My husband also wondered if a dummy may help as he is often just suckling - when is a dummy recommended from?
A friend recommended taking him for a walk to try to tire him out. He has been out for a 35 minute walk today in his pram and only wimpered a few times. I managed some sleep while he was out and its made me much more positive.
Sorry for long post, I am just desperate to continue and would appreciate any advice on the above that you can offer.

ok well yes, it is normal for newborns to feed a lot. mine certainly did

but that said, if it is very painful for you then I would say that there is something wrong with his latch. that in turn could mean that he isn't transferring milk very well which could be why he wants to feed so often

sleep deprivation is dire and you have my full sympathy!
my advice would be to call La Leche League and see if a breastfeeding counsellor can come out and have a look at him feeding.
IME when I was having problems feeding ds1 the internet and phone were both hugely helpful and supportive, but NOTHING was as helpful as having someone actually watch me feed my baby and give me tips on where we were going wrong

Ok - first take a deep breath!

You are doing fine, better than fine and yes this all sounds pretty normal to me! He is feeding lots to get your milk supply going and as time goes on you will both get better at this thing and he will feed less often. You are not going to be feeding him hourly for the next few months! He isn't feeding a lot because there's anything wrong with your milk either - newborn babies have a stomach the size of their clenched fist - it's tiny! Makes sense that it needs to be topped up little and often which is exactly what he's doing. A dummy isn't recommended when getting breastfeeding going because you actually need him to suckle lots, practice the latch and get the milk going.

Get friends and family to take him out for shortish walks (no good going for three hours - he'll be miserable and you'll be distraught) Keep co-sleeping and offering the breast often. It will even out. If you're concerned about the latch phone the NCT and get somebody round to look at with you. Slap some lanisoh on your nipples and ensure you have plenty of chocolate in the house. Drink lots of water and try to get outside for fresh air however briefly because it will help your sense of well bring to. Good luck

Congratulations!!!

Please please please find someone experienced in feeding - local support group prob the best, call midwife to find out where - and get someone to see you feeding.

At 6 days we were soooooo similar. It got much better but I needed outside support and help. Turned out my latch was not right and it took only a few days of lots of support to get it.

I would really suggest you don;t use dummy or formular untill you've seen someone. Your baby is learning a new skill and sucking idffernet things makes it more tricky.

Does he like being in a sling? We found this a life saver.

You're doing soooooo well and I'm sure you'#ll get loads of support on here.

Like I say we were similar and I fed dd till 18 months. Kept going cos after the inital first diffiuclties it became easier than bottles!!

This sounds pretty normal to me. I think that new babies are programmed to suck all of the time so that they get your milk supply up, and for them it is very comforting.

The number of feeds will decrease. At the moment his tummy is tiny so he can't take much milk at each feed, but he will grow really quickly and feeds will get more spaced out.

As for putting him down, you might want to try swaddling him so that he feels safe and warm, then give him a feed, wind him gently and put him down when he gets dozy.

Lots of babies get particularly frenetic in the evening. I used to get my DH to take DD out for a walk then so that I could have a break and somehow being outside used to calm her down.

Someone will no doubt have some good advice as to what you can do about the sore nippples. TIY's suggestion that you call LLL is a good one. I hope it gets easier for you soon.

excellent advice here

I would try jelonet with your sore nipple - it is a gauze you keep on your nipple all the time you are not feeding. The key thing is not to let it dry out so that it scabs, as when you next latch on the scab will break from underneath and get deeper.

best of luck. Do phone one of the helplines, I wouldn't have carried on without some help face to face.

Could have been me that post - about 2.5 years ago!

DD fed constantly and nipples were so sore. Later found, as suggested, that the latch was poor on one side so she wasn't getting all the milk she should and the effort involved meant she kept dropping off to sleep for a little while but then waking up after 10 mins for more. Like you I was shattered.

Try to see a bf counsellor but keep going with the Lanisoh and keep your nipples out in the air - it feels odd but you get used to walking about the house topless.

Babies do feed pretty much constantly for the first few weeks but honestly it gets better. What worked for me was learning to feed lying down so I could doze while baby fed.

Dummy didn't work for us. Swaddling might be good while you wait until you can use a grobag.

The idea of walks is good,(Get someone else to do the walk - not you!) the baby usually falls asleep and you get a break.

To be honest when I just accepted that I would have a baby clamped to my nipples for the next few weeks I just felt better. I just gave up worrying about it and lived in chaos. Eventually it all fell into place.

Well done for giving your baby the best start in life though! And seek proper support. My breastfeeding support group really helped.

Finally - I've just stopped bfing - after nearly 3 years! Even after my horrible start when I got mastitis and sore nipples etc. So it is possible to work it out - honest!

sorry about conflicting nipple advice! I can only say what worked for me obviously.

Thank you so much for the advice, I feel reassured already that we are doing ok.
DH is not working next week and wants to do everything he can to help so I will try to stay in bed. I get up and feel totally wired and worried about the next feed so if I stay in bed hopefully this will ease.
I am only feeding from one side each feed, should I be changing sides. I am so relieved when its time to feed on the left and enjoy this much more. The right breast is hard and much more difficult to express from (i have been trying this in the bath a little to try to get things going today and last night).
I rang the NCT twice this week already and have got reassurance for the questions I had at the time but I suppose as I get more tired and more emotional the reassurance fades, especially when my lo is constantly rooting and crying to feed. They told me it is ok to feed constanly and I should not leave my baby to cry which is just what I needed to know as i had family telling me just to put him down and that all babies cry. it was tearing my heart out!
I have had two midwifes check my latch and on both occasions he latched on straight away and I am told I have this right. At 4am it just doesn't seem as easy. I think it must be my tiredness that is the problem. I feel like I am forcing my lo's head onto the breast and increasing his tears.
I will look into a breast feeding support group, however at the stage I can't imagine getting ready to go out - i'd need to stop a few times en route to feed. I haven't made it out of my pj's yet.
I was not wearing a top on day 3 and 4 but yesterday my breasts started leaking so I thought I had to keep a bra on with pads, whilst I was sleeping as well. Would it be better just to sleep on a towel?
Thanks again for the support and advice.

agree, offer him both sides each time and feed him until he is no longer interested.

it's still worth seeing if you can get a breastfeeding counsellor to come and check your latch. Midwives generally don't have very much breastfeeding training, and so I wouldn't necessarily take their word that your latch is good
it really shouldn't be "very painful" as you say in your first post, and it shouldn't be making you bleed.

Happymum, you're doing brilliantly - I was in exactly your situation a few months ago and I know how tough it is. You've had lots of good advice already but I would say definitely swaddle - it made a big difference to my DD's sleeping and also in calming her down. In fact she still sleeps swaddled now, at 4.5 months! The trick is to do it good and tight so they can't wriggle out - we cut an old single sheet in half and still use that.

As for the pain - sore, bleeding nipples, yep I had that. I remember the health visitor gasping when she saw them and she's been in the job for years so she must have seen a few Everyone said it would get better and at the time I thought how can it POSSIBLY get better, but it did, and now feeding is completely painless and a pleasure. If it gets really bad, maybe try and express for some feeds to give your nipples a rest. I actually stopped breastfeeding for a few days and fed DD EBM and formula and once the nips had had a chance to heal they were fine. I know you don't want to FF and when you're feeding every couple of hours you can't express for every one, but every other one (during the day, obviously not practical at night) might help. Oh yes, and Jelonet is good, as another poster mentioned. You can buy it in Boots.

And hang in there - I found the first couple of weeks of DD's life hell, frankly - felt like I'd been hit by a bus and didn't believe anyone when they said it would get better. But it did, and now she's the best thing that ever happened to me.

Other things that worked for me:

Wearing a nursing bra that was too big so that there was room for a pad to soak up excess milk but it wasn't tight at all so my nipples weren't getting chafed. Occasionally I slept on a towel but woke up soaked! Don't worry it settles down.

Actually StarlightMcKenzie whether the advice about letting the air getting to nipples is 'up to date or not' - I was only posting what helped me. As they were basically injured which mine were, and this ladys seem to be, I would have thought a bit of air might be helpful. In any event it least it means they aren't chafing against breast pads or clothes. However excuse me for trying to be helpful!

I am very grateful for all the advice. I have rested today and DH has taken him after feeds which has given me respite. I have been swaddling ds as it is the only way to keep his arms from flailing around as I try to get him latched on.
I fed him on both breasts last night, he fed from 11.30 and seemed to fall off every 15 mins so I changed sides at this point. This meant a lot of changes - he fed almost continuously until 3.30am (max 10min break before he woke up crying again). It initially made both breasts sore but when he woke to feed again at 4.40 (after an hours sleep ) i could tell the ;eft breast was heavier and neither were quite so sore. Could I ask if this is the right way to do it - would 8 changes be normal in a long feed? Will he be getting to the hindmilk or should I not be worrying about this at this early stage?

happymum - if he's feeding frequently there's no need to worry about fore and hind milk as it doesn't have time to settle out into the two parts.

What you're doing is switch feeding. IIRC it encourages let down quicker so your baby is waiting for milk less often if that makes sense. It certainly works for my (much older) DS. He gets grumpy when he's tired and the milk isn't flowing so he switches himself round a lot and seems to get a more continual flow of milk.

HTH

It's very early days, and this from memory sounds pretty normal to me. It takes a few weeks or more for you both to become pros at this!

He is building up your supply- soon, as he gets a little bigger, he will be able to take more milk more efficiently, and feeds won't last so long nor be as frequent. Hang in there- this is the twilight zone, where day and night merge into one. It will not be long before you cannot even remember this phase.

Well done for hanging in there! Things will get easier as the days go on - the first week can be a complete nightmare!

There's definitely some great advice on this thread. A couple of suggestions that you could perhaps try too....

If he seems to be continuously feeding, which from your posts suggest that he does, is there any way you can try and lengthen the feed, by keeping him a little more alert for the time on each breast - perhaps tickling his feet, stripping him down a little so that he doesn't doze off quite so quickly and takes in more milk. Also, I remember from when DD was tiny, she would cry, I'd offer her the breast, she'd feed, sleep a bit, cry a bit and the cycle would repeat. Sometimes, she'd be tired or need winding, so perhaps if you think your little one has had a good feed and he starts crying minutes later, then could you try rocking him, burping him or taking him for a little walk (in a sling perhaps) so that your breasts get a break!

If your DS is gaining weight and producing wet and dirty nappies, then perhaps you might be able to try these other tactics rather than automatically feeding him every time he cries.

Anyway, well done for persevering! I remember the first week being so difficult with DD but I ended up feeding her for 2.5 yeras! I'd definitely see if you can find a breastfeeding support group in your area. Sometimes the other mothers can drive you to the group if you're still exhausted!

You need some more expert advice than I can give but not sue switching quite so often is what you should be doing. My DD did this and I tended to leave her on one side until felt happy that breast was empty and then switched.

You shouldn't really be sore though. Maybe ring a helpline for advice again.

You'll get through it x

Have a look for threads on switch feeding - its an acknowledged technique which can help when your baby is feeding a lot.

There's some discussion of switching here

I would agree with lots of the suggestions here on the breastfeeding side of things and can only add well done, and i felt very similar to you in the early days but it does get better!
We had the same problem with DD1 kicking off her blankets but being too small for a grobag. My mum managed to find a small sleeping bag with arms in Boots, which worked a treat. It was much smaller than a grobag and (maybe because of the arms?) fittd more snugly round the top.

I am still feeding so much, changing sides regularly, getting conflicting advice about draining each breast before offering the other but trying to remember that its ok to change sides regularly and am not getting so hung up on this now. Fotunately the pain has decreased and its only sore initially, I am so grateful for this.
I am finding now that my ds won't be put down. For example, I have been feeding since 6.50 this evening, 20 mins on, change breast, he manages 10 mins, rests for 5-15 mins then roots and screams for more. During this time if we try to put him down he cries alot. It is now 9.20 and he has fed on and off for a total of 1hr 20. My DH took him on a walk at 5.30 and ds was screaming as he left but calmed in the sling. I hate to leave him crying but this would be the only way. I have tried an amby hammock, moses basket and pram but he just screams and looks like he wants to feed again. Would anyone recommend letting him cry or should I just accept that he wants to feed all the time still and sleep when he's out of the house only?

Don't want to add any more advice as you have some good stuff here and I know a barrage of suggestions can get confusing.

BUT! - Do call the BfN or another helpline and talk through it

AND -it WILL get better, it WILL get less constant, you WILL sleep for more than 20 mins at a time at some point in the future! You WILL get to a support group, you WON'T even go there in your jammies!!

Honestly I feel teary reading your posts as I remember it so well, just over a year ago now and I was in a haze of confusion, exhaustion and worry. I was reading MN like a crazy woman and flicking between umpteen books getting conflicting advice everywhere I looked. In fact I think I just got too much advice!

Feed as much as you need to, swap when your baby seems to lose interest on one side, DON'T start a record sheet of times and sides of feeding (). Rest when you can, do nothing else. Oh and eat too! It WILL get better!!!!