How many feeds a day? I seem to be feeding continuously - is this ok at this v early stage?

[Happymum2be]

I am a new mum and my baby is now 6 days old and we've had some ups and downs with feeding. he's breast feeding every hour for approx 25 mins, i manage to get an hours sleep here and there if my husband takes him. Could someone tell me if it is normal for him to want to continuousy feed? Its very painful but nowhere near unbearable. Its particularly painful on the right breast and whilst tired out the other night I got the latch completely wrong and now have bleeding most times I feed. I got very upset yesterday due to being exhausted (approx 3 hours broken sleep in 24 hours)and my husband is so suportive but wonders how long I can continue this and has asked if I want to get some formula. I know I absoutely do not but will the number of feeds decrease? He doesn't appear to want to be held by me - he just wants to feed. We're co-sleeping as i can't bear to put him in his moses basket, everytime I put him down he cries and cries and kicks about so much his covers go everywhere. John Lewis staff said we shouldn't use a grobag til 4 wks but the bag fits him well and he hasn't managed to struggle much during the day so i was thinking of trying him in one tonight. Its a real struggle to continue feeding all night with him right next to me. It take 10 mins to get him latched on once he's stopped moving his head round and finally opens wide nenough. I know I can do this, I have amazing support frmo my husband but he can't bear to see me so upset - I just need reassurance that its ok to continuously feed.
My husband also wondered if a dummy may help as he is often just suckling - when is a dummy recommended from?
A friend recommended taking him for a walk to try to tire him out. He has been out for a 35 minute walk today in his pram and only wimpered a few times. I managed some sleep while he was out and its made me much more positive.
Sorry for long post, I am just desperate to continue and would appreciate any advice on the above that you can offer.

Happymum - don't usually post on these threads as I am waay beyond this stage now, but your post rang a bell.

I too was constantly feeding with my first baby and I just couldn't believe it was OK - he couldn't possibly be hungry ALL the time.

It didn't help that I had my mum saying 'ooh in my day it was every 4 hours...'

SO I did 'top him up' with formula because I thought he was too hungry. Big regret.

Fast forward to my second and the same thing happened - baby seemed to want to feed constantly. This time a midwife said to me 'oh yeah, didn't you know you should just feed whenever your baby wants to.'

Er no, actually I didn't. So I persevered and I am so glad I did because although initially I was feeding constantly - night and day, it really does settle down and before you know it the time between feeds becomes less and less. Also the more I fed the less painful it was (although initial latching on was still ouch).

What was really helpful was that DH would take baby out for an evening walk in the sling - they would trudge the streets for hours - but it was summer, so perfect time. Baby was really happy in the sling, peeping out at the wold with daddy and it gave me - and him - a break from feeding.

He is so little. I hope you are not even out of bed yet - (in the olden days you would have stayed there for 10 days you know, just getting used to each other!)

Enjoy the closeness of him. Lucky you!

At the risk of going against the grain I thought I'd post my experience.
My milk took a while to come in and DD was SO HUNGRY and wanted to feed all the time, despite feeding constantly she wasn't getting enough and even became dehydrated. We did 'top her up' about one feed a day, usually at around 11pm. This meant that she slept a little longer having got a nice full tummy and I got some sleep too. I found that that little break made enough of a difference that I felt human again and that at the next breastfeed she seemed to feed more efficiently.
I can honestly say that I'm sure it didn't have a bad effect on my supply and I now breastfeed exclusively and very successfully. I know that 'topping up' with formula is frowned upon, especially by the NCT and the very militant bf counsellor I spoke with but without it I am sure I would have given up through sheer exhaustion.
Just wanted to let you know that you do have an alternative that may help.

No one should 'frown upon' topping up - but the facts are crystal clear.

It reduces the milk supply. It risks messing up breastfeeding. In the vast majority of cases when it is done the baby does not need the formula. It has a health impact on the infant gut.

This doesnt mean no one should ever do it. Or that it may not have effects that could be helpful in individual circumstances.

It does mean that anyone thinking about topping up should know the potential negatives.

fuzzylittlesheep - in what way was the breastfeeding counsellor you met 'militant' - genuine question!

Me too!

my son fed hourly for about 3 weeks truthfully there were a couple of days in there that I started to wonder if I was EVER going to be able to get so much as a cuppa down me without hearing the familiar wail!

I had lots of people impart advice that he HAD to be starving I wasn't making enough milk etc but he'd feed quite happily different time lengths and then settle off
soon he went into a 2 hour pattern and sometimes 3 or 4 hours and I was able to get about a bit cook dinner or have an extra long bath or a good rest.

Do what you feel is right if you have a contented baby then that's fine they tummies are very small and people do seem quite obsessed that they ought to have babies who are 3 -4 hourly fed - the best advice my MW gave me was write down how many times a day you eat or drink something and the you realise you don't go for long without a snack or drink!

Fuzzy it can seem like the baby isn't getting enough in the early days and formula seems to prove that, it's like a miracle cure! But it's just the difference in the way they process both. Early days they do need to feed like that because it's pretty much going straight through them but when they have formula it sits in their stomach so they can happily go a little longer.

TikTok - NCT lady made it very clear in a group bf workshop I attended that if you ff you are 'damaging your baby' and she 'can't understand why you wouldn't feed your baby the proper way'.
I want my baby to learn from the start to take a bottle (for many reasons which I won't go into) and wanted to feed her ebm from a bottle once a day, she said 'no, you can't do that'.
Now, had she said 'well, you could try that but it isn't advised for x,y,z reasons' then that would have given me something to think about and come to my own decision, we are all adults after all.
I think she thought every baby should be bf and couldn't conceive of any reason why you would ff.

I fully agree that it does risk affecting your supply, but a woman is able to decide whether in her case the risk is worth it.
In our case it was definitely worth it, my DD became dehydrated so she wasn't getting what she needed just from me. Dehydration can be very dangerous for a young baby and so topping up with formula was the safest way forward for us.

Also, I don't think anyone would argue that bm is what the infant gut is designed to digest, but again, there is an alternative for those who need it - and thank god there is.

TBM My point exactly, as they are different to digest it can give the mother that break she needs.

If I hadn't topped her up with formula, I would have ended up giving up bf, so for me it was what allowed me to become a successful breastfeeder.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone to ff or to top up with formula, I just thought that the OP should have a range of responses from people who have been in a similar position and how they coped.

"NCT lady made it very clear in a group bf workshop I attended that if you ff you are 'damaging your baby' and she 'can't understand why you wouldn't feed your baby the proper way'."

and

"...wanted to feed her ebm from a bottle once a day, she said 'no, you can't do that'."

I am really shocked. Those phrases you quote are very un-NCT-ish in my experience.

We spend a large part of the training learning how not to sound dogmatic, directive or judgemental. I can't imagine those phrases ever coming out of my mouth or my colleagues'!

Did you complain or say anything on the feedback?

TikTok - I was very shocked myself and I had thought I would do more NCT things but it put me right off and I now avoid them like the plague (though I'm sure they are not all like that - some firnds have had really positive experiences)

Haven't complained, but think a few other women who attended the same course did!

this sounds like me 7 weeks ago... and it really does get better! (and this one isn't even my first)

are you right handed? midwife suggested that is the reason a lot of right handed women have trouble with the latch-on on the right breast - because we are using the left hand i.e. not our strongest/best hand (there is another adjective I'm trying to think of here but my mind has gone blank ). She sggested rugby ball position (from the side).

I found breast shells broke the pain and bleeding cycle for me. They felt soothing, especially when they were still warm out of the microwave steriliser! And I collected excess milk that dh was able to use for feeding ds and let me have a break. I did have to use formula for a couple of days to help mme out when my right breast was totally unbearable and had scabbed over - yuck - and it killed me inside at the time but looking back was very necessary to allow me to recover and keep going with the bfeeding.

I completely understand how you are feeling at the moment - I remember it so clearly. But I promise it does improve. Just follow your insticnts. And wait for that first smile!

Just back to clarify my garbled message that the time between feeds does get longer and the feeds get less and less!

Also wanted to clarify that my 'regret' at topping up was because I then ended up bottle feeding exclusively from the age of 3 weeks which wasn't something I'd planned. (because - as tiktok has pointed out - it can initially seem like a miracle cure! Then of course I got into a cycle of thinking, oh ff is making such a difference and then feeding him more formula, so my milk supply became less and then that was pretty much the end of bf for me). I just wish I'd had someone then to dispel the myth that babies are routine and regular feeders- they are later, but generally not initially!

(BUT my baby(!) is now a strapping 13 year old. He turned out fine!)

Also the dummy issue - at 6 weeks my daughter was still falling asleep on the breast - using it as a comfort, (she just had to suck!) -until one day she discovered her thumb and then I was released!

Fast forward 8 years and she is still a vigorous thumb sucker and is looking at serious orthodontic work.

If I had given her a dummy at an early age it would have satisfied her sucking and would have been an easier habit to break (you can take away a dummy but a thumb stays attached!)

I don't think I would have tried a dummy in the very early days though. Would have just fed.

I just wanted to thank everyone for the support and advice. I have had a much better day - couldn't put ds down last night but he fell asleep lying next to me when he fell off right breast and we both got a couple of hours. He has gone a little longer between feeds today and i have managed a few naps to prepare me for the night ahead. rugby ball hold has really helped right breast feeding issues and i am starting to enjoy each feed. I haven't considered formula and think i am producing lots of milk, there's lots shooting out of both breasts when he cries near me! Will find out tomorrow at his next weigh-in - he only lost 7% of birth weight at day 5 and I'm hoping we've been doing well with all this feeding. Thanks again, so very much appreciated.

v glad to hear you are feeling more positive