Do you say anything when you know someone has been given v bad BF advice in the past, but they are ok with it?

[Caz10]

Sorry that is very poorly worded but a post has just made me think...

Amongst my friends I can count at least 5 who stopped breastfeeding earlier than they intended, due to what I now know to be very poor advice. Individually they have been told things like

• their baby was too big to be breastfed
• you need to give a baby bottles after 6pm as your supply runs low then
• you have to stop BF when you go back to work etc etc

They were all upset at the time, but just pleased to have done it for as long as they did, and still believe they had no option but to stop. I see absolutely no point in saying they were given poor advice and haven't said anything. However from time to time it crosses my mind that this is probably part of the reason that there is so much poor info floating about out there.

What does anyone else do in this situation?

If breastfeeding comes up in conversation, I bring it up, but am able to use my own experiences (good and bad) as a point of reference to start with and since it is part of my profession, I can use other examples to dispell many of the myths associated with breastfeeding.

A recent newspaper article or segment on a television programm can offer an opportunity to bring it up in conversation. If they happen to mention someone they know who is pregnant can be another one. You might casually ask, "Didn't you "have" to stop breastfeeding because of such and such"? "I just read this article that was talking about that very thing"....and there you have your window of opportunity to plant a seed of information that will hopefully take root and spread.....

Consider that these women, while well intentioned, are potentially imparting this incorrect information onto their friends, co-workers, neighbours, and family members.

Presenting the correct information, when the opportunity arises...or making your own opportunity, in a matter of fact way will allow them to be more open to receiving the information than perhaps directly questioning them as that may only serve to make them defensive of their decisions.

I do usually find a way to say 'well, no, that's a myth' but nicer than that iyswim.
I think it's important to for the reasons you do too.
EG my aunt told me my cousin couldn't breastfeed beyond a month because she'd had a caesarian, and I was able to chat about that a bit. What earthly use it does now, I don't know, but she was so adamant and I felt it was likely she'd tell other people the same.

I think it is situation specific what I say, how I say and how much I say.

A while ago, a friend whose son is older than my dd mentioned why switched to AF based on the advice of GP an HV.

When I told her what I thought her problem sounded like, she told me that it was the first time she was told something that made sense. I sense that doing so has brought some sort of closure for her which for some women is important.

If they've already stopped breastfeeding, I do my best to make them feel happy about bottle-feeding. No sense in compounding the guilt.

If they are having trouble but are keen to continue, I offer support and guidance about where to get the best possible expert advice (BF counsellors, baby cafes etc).

You have to be really sensitive though because are basically at their lowest ebb in this situation- exhausted and guilt-ridden and sometimes actually unwell.

It's a really difficult one. Generally I don't because most people are more willing to believe their HV than a random person, even if it's a friend but particularly on t'internet - and ideally of course their HV would be right!

My grandmother, who is 90 in a few weeks' time, has told me probably a couple of hundred times since I had DD that she wanted to feed my dad for longer but had to stop at four months on medical advice because her milk was too rich for him. Eventually I cracked and told her that that was nonsense and she'd been misinformed and it just made her feel a bit sad (not that I'm convinced that she really believed me) and made me feel horribly guilty, since it doesn't really change anything except to make her feel bad.

There's another lady on another forum I use who has said a few times that she didn't produce any milk so by day three had to switch to formula because her baby was starving - which really confuses me because presumably by day three her milk wouldn't have come in anyway (? - I know some women don't produce milk but thought it was rare). She just says that it was her experience and no one else was there so we can't tell her any different - which is true of course.

Usually the only effect I can see it having is making people feel worse about themselves - but I do have to sit on my hands when it's on a forum and I know dozens of people will read it.

Caz10 - see my separate post on bad advice! I was really tempted to say something to the woman but it would have been really awkward. If I could have talked to her alone afterwards I would but not in front of the HV...

Unless it was in a situation where they were expecting another baby and were hoping to feed it for longer than their other children, I wouldn't say anything... it'll not change anything for them if their childbearing days are over, and it may make them feel not so much guilty as cheated of the right information to enable them to bf for longer.
I totally get what you are saying, and I do find it terribly frustrating when I am in the situation and it is on the tip of my tongue to say "well that's not true" when someone comes out with comments as you mentioned in your op, Caz. But I worry more about upsetting the person.

i used to have this all the time when i ran a baby group - if it was "too late" then i just tried to smile and nod sympathetically as i think i owuld have made them feel worse by saying they had been given wrong/bad advice.

but then the circle of bad advice then continues, as another poster said...

i tried though, to talk very positively to the bf mums who were currently having probs and if they said "well so-and so had this porblem" i would try and gently dispel the myth or point them in the direction of some more helpful advice.

a sad one

IMO many mums who didn't breast feed for long (or at all) found the whole experience exhausting and not at all rewarding. So rather than say "I just couldn't hack it" they say "I didn't have enough milk...my mum couldn't breast feed me so I couldn't breast feed either..."

The comment "my milk was not satifying enough for him" is IMO a way of saying that keeping up with the frequency of feeds that some/nearly all breast fed babies need on occasion (or all the time!) was not something they could do.

The reality is sometimes breast feeding just doesn't fit into what some women want or can do.

But it is socially unacceptable in certain circles to say that.

So any of the above comments come in very good stead as a way of pinning the reason for not breast feeding on the process rather than on their own part of the feeding decision.

What I am trying to say is that when people say something about not being able to breast feed that sounds an unlikely reason or bad advice they may not thnak you for pointing out that the reasons they have comforted themselves with are not correct.

And of course there are a tiny number of women with for example HIV who would be advised (I think) not to breast feed - and these women would also prob not say that at M&T groups...a vague reason is more likely to be given.

And women who've had boob jobs (involving severed ducts); implants; mastectomies etc etc would also prob go down the "not enough milk" route.

Also women with pituitary disorders, I discovered when trying to assist a friend to maintain bfing (along with medical help) despite the fact he was not even 8 lb in weight at 12 weeks (born weighing 5.5 lbs). He was actually not getting enough milk. Frankly that is the only person I've met in years of going to baby groups who genuinely wasn't able to breastfeed and was starving her child by continuing.

As someone who had a disasterous time BF DS1 but went on the BF DS2 for well over a year, please, please, don't go around trying to "explode the myths". You will only bring up a lot of upset. I do not know any woman who gave up BF without a great deal of sadness. All you will manage to do is make yourself come across as a smug, insensitive know it all.

My GP gave me the best advice and said "please don't let this experience put you off trying to BF your next baby as you will probably go on to BF successfully". She was absolutely right.

Gagarin- sorry, but I find your post really upsetting. I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone with it, but as someone with a 4 week old baby who is trying desperately to breastfeed but really does NOT have enough mil, I hate that people are probably thinking I 'couldnt hack it.'

At the moment I'm feeding pretty much constantly throughout the day, pumping as soon as I've given a bottle, taking fenugreek and domperione, and basically living with an incredible amount of guilt over the fact that I'm still unable to prouce more than a few mls. So please don't assume that everyone is making up excuses, perhaps some really do struggle and will find your comments very hurtful.

firstontheway, so sorry to see you are having such difficulty. have you had any advice from a bf counsellor? the helplines?

i had a horrible time getting bf established, but the help i got made it possible.

I don't know about the sensitivity issue. I feel sensitive about the whole area of b'feeding (having tried and failed to feed both dd's), but still think it is important for me to know why I might have failed.

I have learnt loads about the reasons why - lack of support, bad advice, thrush, tongue tie and super sensitive nipples that were painful throughout a feed and even when expressing, through Mumsnet, and I have done that because even if i don't have another baby, I would like to have that knowledge for my daughters and my peace of mind.

So maybe advise them to have a look at Mumsnet!

I know I tried as hard as I could, but there are some problems or a combination of problems that can be insurmountable, and frankly it is attitudes like Gagarin's that come across as insensitive and ignorant.

No I wouldn't say anything - unless they've asked? Have they asked?

Can't see what you'd gain other than to make them feel bad - I guess if they were having another child you could point them in the direction of one of the b/feeding organisations, but only if they showed an interest in b/fing again.

A similar example - I will never forget discussing my birth with a friend - how my baby was very big and got stuck because her head was in the wrong position - and my friend telling me it was because I'd had an epidural.

Yes, it might have been because of the epidural, or it could have been one of those things. Either way, it made me feel like shit and as though I had brought the whole thing on myself.

Also achieved nothing as I'd still have an epidural given my time all over again (I'd just cross my fingers that it'd actually work next time!)

Thanks fishie- don't want to hijack the thread too much! But have had quite a bit of support- both on here and in rl from la leache counsellors and HV etc. Am coming to terms with the fact that the 'excuse' is the truth for me- I don't have enough milk! Will try again with (God willing) future children but for now I'm continuing with comfort feeding, meds and pumping, and trying to come to terms with the guilt that comes with not being able to fully breast feed. It really is the most awful feeling knowing that I would give anything, anything at all to be able to feed my baby myself, but hope it will get easier with time. I'm sure this is just the start of a lifetime of mothering guilt in any case

Good luck firstontheway, sounds like you are doing a brilliant job under tought circumstances.

Be proud of yourself, you are a great Mum

I would second what TheCrackFox has said.

I do also think though that women need more realistic information about breastfeeding (and what to expect) before their babies are born not after BF has for want of a more appropriate expression not worked out.

This is very true AcademicMum....breast is best is the popular catch phrase, but there is not always the support to back it up....prior to birth and afterwards.

Part of the problem is many women do not have the experience of someone they know breastfeeding successfully. The pendulum swings back and forth over the years and currently the push for breastfeeding is at a high point. The key is to provide current and correct information to expectant mothers and families.

Again, I think you can impart the correct information to women, even when they have stopped breastfeeding, in a nonjudgemental way so as not to point fingers or cause them to feel badly about the decision. It is in how things are worded.

By not doing so, when an opportunity arises...(you don't have to go out of your way), many women will continue to receive incorrect information as it will continue to get passed on. After all, most new mothers probably receive much of their support, whether correct or incorrect, from their friends and family members who already have children. Sadly also from uninformed midwives and HVs at times.

I can't tell you how many women will say they were told by their sister, mother, friend, etc., you will crack and bleed, expect to get really sore, that baby needs formula or solids because they are a big baby, formula will help baby sleep through the night, the reason baby wants to eat every 2 hours is because your milk must not be satisfying baby, baby spits up because your milk must be sour, you're not getting much with pumping so you must not be producing enough, there is no reason to breastfeed after 6 months, the list goes on and on.

So sorry to offend

What I meant was that IMO there are some people who do not want to breast feed.

But it many circles is not ok to say that.

And also that if things have gone badly despite every effort it is human nature to say to a distressed friend/sister/daughter "never mind - there's nothing you can do, it's becaue he's big/small/hungry/sleepy etc".

I think that is people trying to be kind and supportive of some one who has had a terrible time.

So I would not be inclined to say that those kind and supportive commnets were not true until well after the emotional (and physical pain) of not being able to breast feed has passed.

And if it were a stranger I was talking to then I wouldn't know when that was.

So I wouldn't say much or anything just in case I made a sad situation much worse.

I don't think I'd say anything in RL other than ask discretely what help the mum had and drop in that if she was in that situation again she might find it helpful to see a bf counsellor, as they sometimes have different ways of approaching problems and that this can make a big difference to some people.

That said, the number of 'failed breastfeeding' stories in mother and baby magazines where it's clear (to me but not to the mother in the story) that the mother had really terrible 'help' and advice really worries me, and there is usually no editorial comment which flags this issue up. I think that being printed in magazines has the effect of somehow validating the advice given in these stories, and that's not a good thing.

I once had a lady weep happy/sad tears when I explained that she'd been badly advised and had not actually failed to bf, but had been misled into giving up. Her baby was over 40 and she had carried this guilt and feelings of failure all that time.

When people repeat bad advice or myths I ask them who told them they didn't have enough milk/thier baby was too hungry/whatever. It's normally possible to then explain that they have been misled, and generally they feel angry at the person who told them the crock of shit, and no longer feel like they have deffective boobs, or, if they made it up (because they didn't like bf and were using it as an excuse to stop) they at least stop telling people a load of crap and the cycle of bad advice/myths is less likely to go on and on.

Gagarin - I wanted to echo part of what you said. One of my friends did not want to breastfeed. But there was sooooo much pressure on her (probaby from me too ) to do so, before her DD was even born. When her DD was born, she had strep B and antbiotics, and my friend made a lot of noise about not being able to bf, due to medication, not well enough and when she was finally well enough not enough milk left. In reality she could have done it if she wanted to. She told me later, that she was relieved as she really did not want to do it but she did not have people think she had failed.

So, yes sometimes, people find it easier to give up and make excuses.

However, on the other hand. I was desperate to bf, and my midwife told me every step of the way my milk was probably not enough for DD, and others did too (she was low birth weight and did not put on enough weight according to a bottle feeding chart )), and I was devestated to think I could not do it, refused to believe it and did not give in. At the time I did not know about bf counsellors, and the myths being dispelled through, for example MN means that I will have much more confidence to know next time that my milk is fine.