Who is Clare Byam Cook and do you consider this to be dodgy breastfeeding advice?

[chequersmate]

Just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine about a woman who considers herself to be a 'breastfeeding failure'(her words).

Her newbown was juandiced and under UV and m/w's made her top him up, but she carried on breastfeeding.

She says that the baby would: "latch on easily and feed for up to an hour...but...he would cry hysterically for two or three hours at a time...by week three we suspected the problem was hunger...he would root frantically, searching for milk the second he came off my breast."

My DD was very much like this (also topped up at a young age as a 'solution' to severe weight loss. All the advice I got (mostly from wonderful mnetters) was just to feed, feed, feed. My DD did just that - feeding with short breaks often for 3/4 hour periods.

Anyway the reason this article seemed odd to me is because the (poor) mother then goes on to say: "I made an appt with a breastfeeding counsellor, Clare Byam-Cook. Her diagnoses was that the baby was latching on well but he wasn't sucking properly. The result was my breasts weren't receiving the 'message' to produce more, so my milk suply was lagging. Even then the baby seemed to be lacking the strength - or knack - to drain milk from my breast.

Were he an animal, Clare explained, he would be considered the 'runt' of the litter. In nature, a farmer would...hand-rear it. With a bottle. And that, she said gently, was what I'd need to do with my baby."

Does that sound like normal breastfeeding counsellor advice to you? I'm shocked by it, but don't know if that is what is normally suggested by bfc's in these situations.

(well done to anyone who get's through this post - realise it is long but wanted to quote it correctly!)

excellent point stand&deliver.

i saw her at the baby show in manchester and my husband had to stop me from heckeling her!
she was giving a talk on bf and said that the baby should feed for 10 min on each side and dran the breast at every feed. she also said that you should wear a breast shield to protect the nipple when feeding.
stupid stupid woman.

It's all a bit odd isn't it?

Like I say, I'm interested as it's very similar to my experience of b/feeding DD and I would have been baffled to have this kind of advice about my DD (who, with a birthweight of 9 pounds 11 could hardly be described as a runt )

IIRC, chiropodist wasn't a protected title until relatively recently, meaning anyone could set themselves up to hack bits off your feet. Seems pretty incredible now.

IlanaK, are there moves to protect bf counsellor in the same way?

I hope it becomes protected; i've done the unicef course andam veryu clear that i am not a bfc, have come across others that are deluded however

op- my ds4 was a feeder like this, not only would anyione calling him a runt have alerted me to their laxck of professionalism, the 1year old happily feeding on my lap atm istestimony to thelack of need for him to be topped up; a top up I had to fight GPs etc not to give

Heather, that must have been exratordinarily frustrating! I want to be in an audience when she's speaking, just so I can ask her one question: What training and qualifications do you have in lactation and breastfeeding support?

If she answers that honestly then she'll discredit herself, I await my opportunity............

I can't believe she charges for this kind of advice..

greenmonkies-I would love to see you do it!

Surely she has been challenged. Her appalling book doesnt even mention any of the breastfeeding charities. She tries to discredit bf counsellors whenever she has the chance.

I hate the way she always compares lactating women to commercial dairy farming (prize milkers, duff milkers). How is it in any way analagous?

I'm sure she has been challenged, but not publicly, and that's what she needs. next time she's on This Morning or whatever, talking crap about nipple shields, early bottle use and supplementation (she says it doesn't cause nipple confusion or impact on milk supply) the other bf guest needs to turn to her, live on air and say: "can I ask you who you trained with, what bf support qualifications you have and when you last practiced as a registered midwife?" and she will sit there with her mouth open like a fish and not be able to say anything unless she's prepared to lie like Claire Verity.

I'd gladly do it, the opportunity is all I need, after all I told "The Nations Favourite GP" that he didn't know what he was talking about, so it's only a small step to tell the best known bf "expert" that she's full of shit!!

Go, greenmonkies!

PS who is the nation's fave GP and how did you manage to call his bluff?

Oh, is that the Dr Hilary interview about extending b/fing GreenMonkies? I have seen it I think, you did look like you were spoiling for a fight

I don't know that she was even a midwife? Am I right in thinking a 'meternity nurse' [ie bog standard nurse, which of course is fine as long as not purporting to be neonate feeding expert.]

tbh i'm not surprised that magazine allowed such nonsense to go to print. at the very least they should have ensure that information came from one of the recognised BFing organisations, not some half-baked comparisons to baby pigs

moondog - am a bit at bog standard nurse. i presume by that you mean RGN as opposed to RN(Child Branch)

I would like to add that this woman solved a breastfeeding problem for me nine years ago that a NCT approved counsellor, hospital bfdng advisor and several NCT bfdng lines could not. She is/was good on positioning. She is a bossy and unsupportive in manner, dreadfully unpc about it all, but was the only person who latched the baby on properly after ten weeks. She was worth every penny after all the tears I had shed. I would recommend her to anyone, AS LONG as they knew they were completely committed to breastfeeding. I think she does sometimes say harsh hometruths that can be unpalatable, she told me my baby was very tense and hungry. He cried all the time, but after she left and I followed her positioning advice milk flowed more freely and he stopped crying.
But perhaps her strength was in individual practical help not in theorizing. She did not make me feel good about myself, but she did help me breastfeed that baby!

I think it's possible for mothers to be helped to bf in all sorts of ways and with all sorts of different approaches.

One of my concerns is always that people are best protected when whoever is offering the help is working under some sort of supervision - this means they belong to an organisation that trains them, ensures their training is kept up to date, acts as an arbiter if there are complaints, and crucially, can put a stop to bad or ineffective help by preventing them from continuing to practice. It seems to me that people who work independently don't have that framework.

All the vol orgs in breastfeeding have a system that investigates complaints, and which runs some sort of quality control. NCT for instance, would not be happy about someone being an effective help in terms of practical outcomes, but whose approach left a mother feeling she had been unsupported or feeling bad about herself (swanriver's story).

Fled, I did make it clear that I thought there was nothing wrong with being a 'bog standard' nurse. I'm a bog standard SALT myself. What is important is that professions are regulated, as Tiktok says and that people act and give advice within their remit.

Statistically yes, someone could give advice about something they know nothing about and for it to 'work' but it is a dangerous road to take. CBC gives advice that is incorrect and reveals basic misunderstanding of the physiology of breastfeeding.

It would be like me deciding to give advice on dietary supplements, which is clearly out of my remit as a SALT.

My own profession is highly regulated which is a pain [and bloody expensive. I pay ££££ a year.] It does however keep the charlatans at bay.

In the world of breastfeeding, there are plenty of charlatans who are however good at the art of marketing themselves and who feed off the insecurities of new mothers.

swanriver - I have no qualifications (yet) in bf support and very limited experience. I have helped friends to get babies attached well after they've been seen (and failed) by midwives with training in lactation support.

But I wouldn't present myself as an 'expert' in breastfeeding as I am not trained and qualified.

CBC used to be a registered, practicing MW, but has not been registered, and there for not covered by, regulated or kept up to date by any recognized professional body at all. I think it's something like 20 years since she actually worked as a MW, which probably explains why her teachings are so out of date.

Moondog, can I ask you something? As a SALT are you qualified to give advice on weaning/introduction of solids?I know a SALT who regularly spouts off about needing to start babies on solids at 3/4 months so as not to miss the "window of opportunity" and how "late introduction" (waiting til 6 months) can result in speach delay. Is she in or out of her remit?

GM, some SALTs specialise in eating/drinking/swallowing difficulties [known as dysphagia-I don't work in this field] but this does not extend to making spurious links between eating/drinking and speech/language difficulties. She is talking nonsense.Next time she does, ask her to direct you to relevant research in the field.

Seems noone immune from holding forth on things they know nowt about eh?

I had an NHS SALT see us (referral by paed consultant) when ds1 was readmitted to hospital for excessive weight loss. She gave me a feeding plan which involved attempting to breastfeed ds1 for 10 minutes at each feed before giving him a bottle anyway. As I'd already had my confidence severely knocked anyway by several other hcps, and as there was no one there who actually knew about bf positioning and how to latch babies on, the plan didn't work. I don't blame her or think she was a charlatan, but I do think that this wasn't really the way that an SALT's skills should have been used.

CB-C's book was actually in the NCT's catalogue in 2007 - I confess I bought it when I was desperately looking for help and advice with ds1, but really, it was too late to make a difference one way or the other in my case. I was put off once I learned of her links with Gina Ford. Maybe I'll dig it out now that I've established bf with ds2 successfully, to see what I think of it now I can read about bf without crying so much.

I'd throw it out but I find it hard to bin books and I wouldn't want to give away a book which someone else then gets bad advice from.

elkiedee - I am that CBC's book was ever in the NCT catalogue....that's very odd, and must have been an error. It's not there now - I have just checked.

Elkiedee, that is such a load of nonsense.
Fine example of someone involved beyond their remit. [As an aside, I have learnt that generally, the fewer people involved in problem solving, the better the prognosis, irrespective of issue.]

I was very upset a few years ago when our professional body,and the charity ICAN produced an excellent pamphlet on early language devpt. sponsored by......SMA.

I wrote to Chief Exec. of ICAN [charity for children with lang. difficulties] and she just didn't see the issue.

I used it and distributed it widely but Tippexed offending logo[s] and photocopied.

tiktok, I know, it seems really strange to me now but I'm sure that it was in there. I no longer have that catalogue to check.

CBC is still (ok, was last October) one of the private bfcs listed as a contact by my local NCT. Didn't call her because my friend had used one of the others listed (and then they opened a free bf clinic locally)

Have to admit that I found her book really rather encouraging before birth (went from thinking I'd be unlikely to be able to bf to thinking I'd give it a damn good go and get all the help available), and when I had problems and was feeling like a failure for not being able to fix them, I found her book very reassuring.

Like notcitrus I found CBC's book and video useful before birth and the method shown was the only way I could feed ds for ages. At one point in the early days I was even begging DH to call her to come round our house and help me - after all the mixed advice I got in hospital and with bleeding nipples I just wanted consistent, strong information. In the end my local NCT/NHS bfc helped me out just fine!

I am rather by what she reportedly said!